Poll: Do you support the USA and Europe intervening to protect Taiwan against China?

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  1. #1

    Question Do you support the USA and Europe intervening to protect Taiwan against China?

    I haven't really posted about politics here in a long time, kind of because I don't want to get into the endless arguments, but the recent developments in the Taiwan strait has seriously caught my attention.

    People don't realize how seriously nationalist and pro-military some of the Chinese today are (especially the younger generation of Chinese people, believe it or not), and how fiercely determined they are to "reunify" mainland China and Taiwan, regardless of how many lives are lost - it seems to be a critical issue of national sovereignty and pride for them. Even online, lots of Chinese people seem to consider conquering Taiwan as a way to revitalize and restore the greatness and glory of the ancient Chinese civilization in the 21st century, a means of "completing" their so-called Chinese Dream in Asia.

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/08/05/china...mic/index.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...isit-to-taiwan
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/poli...se-nationalism
    https://theprint.in/opinion/chinasco...-down/1073641/

    90% of the largest container ships transited via the Taiwan strait this year alone, so any crisis would significantly disrupt the world economy, and Taiwan is America's 9th largest trading partner and the 8th largest economy in Asia, as well as the 21st
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...shipping-lanes
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/heres...214917571.html
    https://www.americanactionforum.org/...de-and-taiwan/

    People can make comparisons with Ukraine, but America's security alliance with Taiwan is much older and closer, and there's also that Taiwan Relations Act to consider, and a new Taiwan Policy Act regarding Taiwan being given "major non-NATO ally" status is even now being argued by Biden's administration and the two parties.
    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/dipl...lenge-us-china
    https://uphill.thedispatch.com/p/tai...SigningIn=true

    Lots of analysts are even saying this could potentially lead to WW3, or at least a major conflict in the Indo-Pacific. I'm just curious, would most Americans (and most Europeans at that) actually support their governments and militaries intervening in the event of a real war between China and Taiwan? Why or why not?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vsRMc8TVL8



    And lots of Chinese people today hate the USA and its allies (India, Japan, Vietnam and South Korea) while openly supporting North Korea, Pakistan and Russia:

    https://thediplomat.com/2022/05/chin...on-of-ukraine/
    Last edited by OwenBurton; 2022-08-17 at 05:28 AM.
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  2. #2
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    I'd say yes, we should help them. I think saying this would lead to WW3 is a bit ridiculous, because, I mean, who would side with China? It would be a major war, should it come to that, but calling it WW3 is a bit much, tbh.

    If China is permitted to just invade Taiwan without any opposition, then where does it end? Russia saw how it could just take Crimea, and look where that lead us.
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  3. #3
    The Unstoppable Force PC2's Avatar
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    Maybe yeah but mainly what I support is covert and indirect support that will prepare Taiwan for a Chinese invasion. If we can prepare them enough then it'll turn Taiwan into a poison pill for China, where the benefits of invasion and occupation are less than the costs.

  4. #4
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
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    Nah, The U.S has enough of its own issues to deal with.
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  5. #5
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  6. #6
    Epic! Iphie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I'd say yes, we should help them. I think saying this would lead to WW3 is a bit ridiculous, because, I mean, who would side with China? It would be a major war, should it come to that, but calling it WW3 is a bit much, tbh.

    If China is permitted to just invade Taiwan without any opposition, then where does it end? Russia saw how it could just take Crimea, and look where that lead us.
    russia has said they would stand with China...sorry, sorry, can't keep a straight face there. Ok, lets try that again, North Korea...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    I'd say yes, we should help them. I think saying this would lead to WW3 is a bit ridiculous, because, I mean, who would side with China? It would be a major war, should it come to that, but calling it WW3 is a bit much, tbh.

    If China is permitted to just invade Taiwan without any opposition, then where does it end? Russia saw how it could just take Crimea, and look where that lead us.
    And China controlling Taiwan would allow its navy to project its power all over the Indo-Pacific region and the South China Sea.

    That being said...it does seem somewhat rash for Pelosi to have visited there while Ukrainians are still dying every day at the hands of Russia. I'm not sure even the US and NATO could win a war against both China and Russia together (let alone North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and all their allies).
    "Always you speak. Never do you listen! You ignore the lessons of Pandaria! You see, there is balance in all things. Wisdom etched in our very fur: Black and white. Darkness and light. When the last emperor hid our land from the rest of the world, he also preserved...our ancient enemy, the mantid. So it is with your Alliance and your Horde. They are not strong despite one another; they are strong BECAUSE of one another. You mistake your greatest strength for weakness. Do you see this?"

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    And China controlling Taiwan would allow its navy to project its power all over the Indo-Pacific region and the South China Sea.

    That being said...it does seem somewhat rash for Pelosi to have visited there while Ukrainians are still dying every day at the hands of Russia. I'm not sure even the US and NATO could win a war against both China and Russia together (let alone North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and all their allies).
    China was watching Russia because it wants to do the same with Taiwan that Russia was attempting to do with Ukraine.

    Visiting during all this is a way to put a chiller on that ambition to an extent and knowing where the world stands on them doing that.

    And the world armies could destroy a Russia + China assault. Just look at what Ukraine is doing to Russia at this point and while China has the numbers of a great ground offensive, they lack the ability to project it effectively I have heard and definitely not against NATO without the US let alone with it.

    Even if you combine the others, they would still lose in an actual war. There is a huge difference between destroying an area versus occupying it.

    Nukes would be their ONLY path to anything but a loss so long as the US didn’t revert to nation building and even then all they could hope for would be a stalemate.

    America has a policy of making sure it’s military is strong enough to take on its two biggest enemies and winning or at least holding their own. Now combine that with NATO.
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  9. #9
    Elemental Lord Santti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OwenBurton View Post
    And China controlling Taiwan would allow its navy to project its power all over the Indo-Pacific region and the South China Sea.

    That being said...it does seem somewhat rash for Pelosi to have visited there while Ukrainians are still dying every day at the hands of Russia. I'm not sure even the US and NATO could win a war against both China and Russia together (let alone North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, and all their allies).
    Russia isn't a problem. Just look at them, being stuck against Ukraine. Besides, do you really think they would actually come to help China, especially after China has done virtually nothing to help Russia against Ukraine? The only ally I could see that would help China, would be NK, and even that seems doubtful. Their relations is not all that rosy. Besides, NK couldn't offer much more than just more men, something China has in abundance.

    There is also the fact that a potential war for Taiwan would be mostly naval and aerial in nature. There would be little fighting on land, if any. Definitely absolutely nobody would even think about making a landing on China, that would be insane. I also don't think China has much landing craft available to it for a trip to Taiwan, either.

    And Pelosi is pretty much just a nothinburger.
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  10. #10
    I vote "present."

  11. #11
    I am Murloc!
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    Taiwan is highly strategic. The west will risk WW3 to protect Taiwan.

    Taiwan is the first producer of advanced microchip of the world. The island appears tiny, but has a dozen of multibillion dollars advanced microchip manufacturing plant, un match anywhere in the world. Japan, south Korea and California are way behind. The company producing those chip are TSMN. Even China rely heavily on those chip, and for that reason, China will never bomb near a chip manufacturing plant.

    If i'm not mistaken, current technology is 5 nm MOFSET chip (that's crazy to me, that's like a transistor only 40 atoms wide), and Taiwan is set to start production of their most advanced microchip yet, 3nm chip. (for info, Russia is also a client of Taiwan, Russian chip manufacturing plant are producing 20 years old, 40 nm chip or the like)

    If China invade Taiwan, 2 things can happen (or a combination of the 2). China seize the plants and control the manufacture of the most advance chip in the world, meaning take of the world, or Taiwan sabotage their plants, sending the world 20 years into the past.

    Ukraine produce grain, Taiwan produce the most advanced chip in the world, used in military and civil electronics. At this point, it would be a strategic suicide for the US not to intervene.
    Last edited by Vankrys; 2022-08-11 at 08:39 AM.

  12. #12
    China has plenty of problems right now that are worse than those in the USA. Maybe they somehow become reckless, but I'm guessing they're more scared of causing a serious disruption than the US is.

  13. #13
    Taiwan is easily one of the most strategic locations on Earth, if not THE most strategic. It controls access to the largest trade routes in the world and is home to most of humanity's microchip manufacturing. There is absolutely no way America is letting the island be taken without a fight, or at the very least without some other sort of intervention such as sabotaging the microchip fabs.

    And yes, I "support" this insofar as the USA are the least bad option available. China holding primacy over world politics would be a very, very bad thing indeed. And there's no universe where American geopolitical ambition is scaled back and not swiftly replaced by Chinese geopolitical ambitions.

    As for Russia? They're a gas station with nukes. Their army is bogged down taking half of a neighboring country with a tenth of their GDP. Their nukes are certainly fearsome but they also certainly know launching the things spells doom for them as well.
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  14. #14
    Before even answering it's a good idea to run through the problems of what happens if the US/EU doesn't help. 1. The Chinese have already publicly stated that residents of Taiwan would be "re-educated" to Communist ways. It is safe to say the people of Taiwan would suffer persecution, especially anyone that has spoken negatively or engages in defense, and China has been open about this as well. 2. The US and EU would look like they abandoned Taiwan after decades of promises. 3. TSMC and all of the world's top semiconductors as well as other companies would be severely impacted, threatening world trade and causing supply issues unlike anything we've seen so far.

    On the opposite side, even just within the last year there have been questions over the combat-ready state of the Taiwan military. There have been reports that many troops are apathetic. And memories are fresh of Afghanistan and the challenges of helping an apathetic military. China also in a potential conflict has a massive advantage logistically compared to the US/EU just because of location. And it would be an incredibly difficult conflict, with a US expert saying that in war game simulations the casualties for the US would exceed the number of US soldiers lost in WW2. And lastly there is the argument that this is indeed an "internal" conflict that other countries should remain neutral on. Although going back 70 years to claim historical right to another country is an awfully slippery slope (and the same situation as Ukraine). They wouldn't, but imagine if the UK or other colonial powers used that argument to militarily occupy countries it used to "own" claiming a historical right to them.

    So it's a tough, tough, problem that sooner or later China will make a move on and the West will have to make a decision. There are no easy solutions with this one, it's lose-lose.

  15. #15
    Sure, communist China needs to be contained.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Sure, communist China needs to be contained.
    Capitalist* China

    If we're talking about their economic system.

    Otherwise Authoritarian China also fits. Sure the ruling party is the Chinese Communist Party, but we all know that names aren't always accurate. The Democratic Peoples Republic of North Korea is not Democratic, nor is it a Republic.

  17. #17
    We should just give Taiwan nuclear weapons.

  18. #18
    The Undying cubby's Avatar
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    I do support this initiative.

    What would be interesting is how I would feel is Hawaii or Alaska broke off from the United States and China was supporting their efforts. Global politics is a hoot.

  19. #19
    Void Lord Doctor Amadeus's Avatar
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    No, for the same reason I don't support going to war in Ukraine or Staying in Afghanistan, we shouldn't be in the business of making these things our business and trying to nation build. We have enough problem in the U.S not being attended to.
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  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Why intervene in Taiwan vs anywhere else? Why is it the business of the US to tell another country how to handle territory disputes vs any other territory desputes throughout the world that we ignore?

    Don't tell me it's about democracy because what of the other nations? And it's not like the US is the most democratic nation in the world. Humanitarian aide? Same deal. How would we respond if another nation started to put themselves between the US and xyz Middle Eastern country?

    Why would we goad another country into hard and action to deter US intervention should we threaten to get involved? Why do we have this need to play with the lives of people on the other side of the world for Cold War era clout?


    How many people even know what the dispute is about? We going to champion them for a month like Ukraine then slowly walk away when things get real? Can't say I give a shit right now.

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