1. #1

    RNG resource generation

    RNG resource generation isn't fun, its frustrating. Honestly Affliction doesn't need soulshards, as a combat resource, they've been forced in and its always been awkward because of it. But they are here to stay, ok, can we make them be fun to get? I Honestly think that if they went to an embers setup where Agony tics gave part of a shard that that built over time, increasing generation through haste by increasing tics, i think this would feel much better to play. Having that regularity with shard generation instead of RNG would help the spec tremendously. Destruction is based around chaos not Affliction.

    Or allow Drain soul and Shadowbolt to generate a full shard per full cast the way it does for Demo
    Last edited by Wardonis; 2022-08-10 at 02:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wardonis View Post
    RNG resource generation isn't fun, its frustrating. Honestly Affliction doesn't need soulshards, as a combat resource, they've been forced in and its always been awkward because of it. But they are here to stay, ok, can we make them be fun to get? I Honestly think that if they went to an embers setup where Agony tics gave part of a shard that that built over time, increasing generation through haste by increasing tics, i think this would feel much better to play. Having that regularity with shard generation instead of RNG would help the spec tremendously. Destruction is based around chaos not Affliction.

    Or allow Drain soul and Shadowbolt to generate a full shard per full cast the way it does for Demo
    I'd prefer to either remove them or go back to farming them, I hate the RGN generation and I hate spending them like combo points.

  3. #3
    Agony isn't really RNG though. It ticks up a hidden counter and when that counter exceeds 1 then you get your shard guaranteed.

  4. #4
    But the counter in that is RNG. The whole point is that shard generation is unreliable. It has always felt tacked on and it feels bad to use

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Agony isn't really RNG though. It ticks up a hidden counter and when that counter exceeds 1 then you get your shard guaranteed.
    I agree completely

  5. #5
    Haven't played Affliction with any regularity since Cata because of this. Regardless of throughput I've found its just a boring mode of play. It was incredibly disappointing when they made Destro work similarly at the start of Legion (full shards off random Immo ticks... gross) and didn't revert back to a Burning Embers type of system in, iirc, 7.2.5.

    But having said that, I don't necessarily mind that Aff is like this provided that at least one other spec isn't and there's not a big throughput gap between them.

  6. #6
    Immortal Zelk's Avatar
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    what you're spending soul shards on is a much bigger issue than how you get them right now. Remove Rapture and maybe we can talk about shard gen.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelk View Post
    what you're spending soul shards on is a much bigger issue than how you get them right now. Remove Rapture and maybe we can talk about shard gen.
    Or you just remove SS's and suddenly you don't have a spender to be an issue. Affliction has had 3 different spenders now, since it's switch to being a builder-spender spec it's needed rebuilding every few expansions - the foundations are a mess.

    The decision to turn all 3 warlock specs into builder spenders was probably the most damaging thing done to the class, the idea to homogenize them all into using afflictions when it had the must frustrating resource system of the three specs is a close runner up.

    Soul Shards were at their best when they were utility - I was thrilled to see the SB utility talents back in DF but they're going to be hard to justify when your soulshards are also foux-combo points.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagarkhan View Post
    Or you just remove SS's and suddenly you don't have a spender to be an issue. Affliction has had 3 different spenders now, since it's switch to being a builder-spender spec it's needed rebuilding every few expansions - the foundations are a mess.

    The decision to turn all 3 warlock specs into builder spenders was probably the most damaging thing done to the class, the idea to homogenize them all into using afflictions when it had the must frustrating resource system of the three specs is a close runner up.

    Soul Shards were at their best when they were utility - I was thrilled to see the SB utility talents back in DF but they're going to be hard to justify when your soulshards are also foux-combo points.
    you're absolutely right. How can we justify spending shards for utility when they are required for throughput. Demo is probably the only sp[ec that could use that reliably.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagarkhan View Post
    Or you just remove SS's and suddenly you don't have a spender to be an issue. Affliction has had 3 different spenders now, since it's switch to being a builder-spender spec it's needed rebuilding every few expansions - the foundations are a mess.

    The decision to turn all 3 warlock specs into builder spenders was probably the most damaging thing done to the class, the idea to homogenize them all into using afflictions when it had the must frustrating resource system of the three specs is a close runner up.

    Soul Shards were at their best when they were utility - I was thrilled to see the SB utility talents back in DF but they're going to be hard to justify when your soulshards are also foux-combo points.
    It's exactly the fact they can be used for both damage and utility which makes it interesting. You won't use them whenever, but you'll use it when the alternative is dying or getting hit by a dangerous mechanic. DF version of Soulburn drain soul can help survive intense dmg, Soulburn demonic circle can give you a big speed boost etc, those are all very useful effects which are worth sacrifcing damage for *when it makes sense*.

    In pvp the choice is even more interesting, and frankly affliction is swimming in shards anyway (due to malefic cast windows being hard to find outside Casting Circle pvp talent).

    As for spender style being bad, i disagree. The speccs became builder/spender all the way back in MoP, and that was probably the coolest iteration of the class so far. Affliction was a dot class but it could focus single target damage with Haunt on the main target. Demonology's Demonic Fury and no-cd-demon form was probably the coolest specc idea i've seen. Destruction's chaos bolt becoming this huge awesome hitting truck of a spell was only possible once it became a spender, and the specc only became cool thanks to that, previously being limited to shadowbolt/incinerate spam ad naseum.

    It does make me curious though. What iteration of warlocks did you like best? i don't diss your choices, just honestly interested what kind of gameplay people liked if they didn't enjoy mop-onwards. On a related note, what were your main content types at the iteration you liked most? not in the "casual/hardcore" question, but more like "pvp/raiding/solo/m+"?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagarkhan View Post
    The decision to turn all 3 warlock specs into builder spenders was probably the most damaging thing done to the class, the idea to homogenize them all into using afflictions when it had the must frustrating resource system of the three specs is a close runner up.
    Ye man poor warlocks totally unfortunate class very very weak.

    I will tell you this, I main lock for about 16 years now and last 3 expansions it was a nonstop one OP tier after another, just the FOTM spec changes, but the power is persistent.

    Right now Affliction is weak, but it practically ruled the game for 80% of the last 2 expansions. Guess this season we will use Demonology and Destruction, both being all kinds of busted with thier builder/spenders.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Amariw View Post
    It's exactly the fact they can be used for both damage and utility which makes it interesting. You won't use them whenever, but you'll use it when the alternative is dying or getting hit by a dangerous mechanic. DF version of Soulburn drain soul can help survive intense dmg, Soulburn demonic circle can give you a big speed boost etc, those are all very useful effects which are worth sacrifcing damage for *when it makes sense*.

    In pvp the choice is even more interesting, and frankly affliction is swimming in shards anyway (due to malefic cast windows being hard to find outside Casting Circle pvp talent).

    As for spender style being bad, i disagree. The speccs became builder/spender all the way back in MoP, and that was probably the coolest iteration of the class so far. Affliction was a dot class but it could focus single target damage with Haunt on the main target. Demonology's Demonic Fury and no-cd-demon form was probably the coolest specc idea i've seen. Destruction's chaos bolt becoming this huge awesome hitting truck of a spell was only possible once it became a spender, and the specc only became cool thanks to that, previously being limited to shadowbolt/incinerate spam ad naseum.

    It does make me curious though. What iteration of warlocks did you like best? i don't diss your choices, just honestly interested what kind of gameplay people liked if they didn't enjoy mop-onwards. On a related note, what were your main content types at the iteration you liked most? not in the "casual/hardcore" question, but more like "pvp/raiding/solo/m+"?
    I personally feel that Cata Affliction was the best, but I played warrior in vanilla, shaman in BC and mage/dk in wrath. I didn't pick up warlock until very late wrath. I loved and mained aff throughout all of Cata.

    The big problem I have is that the shard generation is RNG and if I didn't have bad luck I wouldn't have any at all. I can't stand raiding Affliction anymore because on single target bosses i never get shards. Waiting around 4-5 seconds with filler and refresh for a single shard to randomly grace you really sucks. I have about as much negative luck on this as will wheaton's dice rolls, so thats bad. Demo and Destro have the ability to play spells that manually build shards and here is Affliction with 3-4 different filler spells but no manual builders. It just feels bad. We really should generate a shard per shadowbolt with drainsoul dealing more damage, especially on execute. It would just make the spec flow so much more smoothly

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