View Poll Results: Are you in favor, or not?

Voters
28. This poll is closed
  • Sure

    6 21.43%
  • No

    11 39.29%
  • Maybe if it was done correctly

    11 39.29%
  1. #1

    Nearly 20 years, let's shake things up a bit

    Good evening, and welcome to my opinion. It is neither designed to sway the direction of the game, nor is it a demand for change. The following is simply an idea, written down, and shared for discussion. Thank you.

    After all these years, and all of the times the Alliance and Horde have come together to bring down the next big bad, I see the opportunity for change. In fact, there is substantial lore and evidence to suggest this is absolutely possible.

    1. The Knights of the Ebon Blade
    2. The Order of the Silver Hand
    3. Twilight Hammer Clan
    4. The Darkmoon Faire
    5. The Kirin Tor
    6. The Cenarion Circle


    All of these 3rd party factions have one thing in common: they all have Alliance and Horde races working side by side together. They all have the same goal, the same purpose. Now, while I would never join the Twilight Hammer, or even the Darkmoon Faire, I could be persuaded to do so with the Kirin Tor, or the Cenarion Circle as an example.

    So what does it mean? Where is this all going? Glad you asked. I believe a Traitor’s Questline would shake things up a bit. Much like the legwork needed to unlock an Allied Race, we need something at level 20 that unlocks an Allied Faction. What does that even mean “Allied Faction”? Allow me to explain. Sometimes, when someone no longer believes in a cause, they defect to another group and work for the other side. At level 20, you receive a cryptic message in your mailbox asking for a confidential meeting, outside of your faction’s zone. The other side has heard of you, and wants to recruit you; bring you over to their cause.

    So your Worgen Druid, or Dwarven Paladin decides to check it out. Even though you know a Dwarf would never EVER consider working with the Horde, you as a dwarf are simply tired of Alliance politics and wars we can’t win. You meet at the designated spot, agree to defect, and then a 25 step questline (same number to finish unlocking Vulpera) puts you through the test, and when you pass, you are welcomed by the Horde instantly changing your faction and your Dwarven Paladin is now Friendly with the Horde and hated by the Alliance. Same goes for your Forsaken Warlock, or Tauren Warrior. Welcome to the Alliance, because the Horde will kill you on site.

    Now, to make things even more wide open, here comes the second idea. Every class in this game, and every race, have technically worked side by side for thousands of years, and some races are curious about the abilities of other race’s classes. What does that even mean? Well, once again, I am glad you asked. Imagine a Gnome working side by side with a Dwarf and a Night Elf for several decades, but just doesn’t feel like he has a purpose. So he watches closely the class and abilities and gets excited about the potential to become more than he is and learn from the Druid, or the Dwarf. He could learn Shamanism, Paladial duties, Druidic nature magic, and might even build a mech suit to channel it.

    Sam goes for the Horde. A fallen Paladin, raised back up by the Vrykul still feels the pull of the Light, and instead of settling as a Priest, he needs his old life and new life to come back together to feel whole again. Forsaken Paladin. Maybe the Pandaren wants to learn how to be a Druid, or the Tauren wants to wield Fel magics because nature magic constantly backfires on him, and Sunwalkers don’t want him. Any race, could be any class (simply by following a questline to learn it) and then could be any faction at 20 (by doing another large questline).

    More content, more options, and you personally would not make a Gnome Paladin for the Horde, or a Forsaken Paladin who has come back to the Alliance, you simply do not do it. No harm, no foul. However, if you ever wanted a Goblin Druid, or a Worgen Paladin, imagine the Luke Skywalker style discipline questline that would absolve you of all your previous knowledge and disposition to now remake yourself in another Class’ image and then later decide if you even want to keep fighting for your faction. Best part, once you have done it one time with that race, all new characters would automatically unlock.

    So there it is, the wind up and the pitch. For those who made it this far, bravo. My idea for a complete Race/Class/Faction unlock through meta achievements and a way to open the game up so anyone can play their favorite race, and class, and faction. As shown in the very beginning, there are 6 major factions who are already free of the bonds of the Alliance and Horde, and Class halls showed regardless of race, your class defined you. Bosses prove that regardless of faction, your actions define you.

    Thanks for reading!
    “Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    So your Worgen Druid, or Dwarven Paladin decides to check it out. Even though you know a Dwarf would never EVER consider working with the Horde, you as a dwarf are simply tired of Alliance politics and wars we can’t win.
    Other way around. The Horde has never won a war against the Alliance. Every Horde vs Alliance war begins with the Horde invading and a shock victory, only for the Alliance to rally and to stomp the Horde into submission.

    I can see Horde members being tired of being dragged into losing wars by their warmongering leaders and wanting to join the blue team that is sane and actually wins, but I can never imagine any sane Alliance member ditching the winning team to go join the savages that have been genociding them non-stop for the past 40 years straight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Class restrictions exist to add flavor to the game. The more the restrictions are lifted, the less flavor the game has. In WC3, only Kaldorei men could become Druids while the women became wardens and priests. That was flavorful. WoW allowing anybody to become anything eroded part of what made the Nelves unique. I certainly don't want to see Forsaken paladins running around (or maybe you could keep the game mechanics, but lore wise it would be a completely different thing, like Sunwalkers. Class skins... please?)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Other way around. The Horde has never won a war against the Alliance. Every Horde vs Alliance war begins with the Horde invading and a shock victory, only for the Alliance to rally and to stomp the Horde into submission.

    I can see Horde members being tired of being dragged into losing wars by their warmongering leaders and wanting to join the blue team that is sane and actually wins, but I can never imagine any sane Alliance member ditching the winning team to go join the savages that have been genociding them non-stop for the past 40 years straight.
    Maybe the Worgen Rogue has been promised better opportunities to get rich if they jump ship. Maybe that Human Priest feels they can do more good by helping the Horde finally see the light and seek peace. Possibly the Gnome Deathknight is looking for the Goblin deathknight with whom he was raised by the Scourge and feels a socially connected bond. Or, perhaps the Night Elf Demonhunter wishes to return to the land of the Blood Elves and remember a glorious history among the elves. Anything is possible. But, as much as I love the thought, it's likely not to happen. But I just wanted to share my thoughts Appreciate the response.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Class restrictions exist to add flavor to the game. The more the restrictions are lifted, the less flavor the game has. In WC3, only Kaldorei men could become Druids while the women became wardens and priests. That was flavorful. WoW allowing anybody to become anything eroded part of what made the Nelves unique. I certainly don't want to see Forsaken paladins running around (or maybe you could keep the game mechanics, but lore wise it would be a completely different thing, like Sunwalkers. Class skins... please?)
    Maybe this could be "the catch" for doing it. Maybe defecting forces you to exchange something for your new status and knowledge. Maybe you give up access to certain items, or abilities and gain new class specifics. Like the old class quests that taught very specific abilities, or forced the use of certain weapons and styles. Hare to say, but possible.
    “Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    9,474
    Problem is most of those factions are niche...Ebon Blade is made up of Death Knights...Silver Hand of Paladins...Kirin Tor of Magi...ect

    I don't think/know if there is a neutral faction that isn't evil or basically civilian that "takes" everyone except for maybe one of the many throw away factions that are often forgotten by the next expansion.

  5. #5
    Legendary! SinR's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    6,243
    we KINDA did this already with Legion Class Halls
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  6. #6
    Dreadlord saintminya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Twilight Highlands
    Posts
    848
    I'd join up with/recruit the Twilight's Hammer in less than a heartbeat.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Other way around. The Horde has never won a war against the Alliance. Every Horde vs Alliance war begins with the Horde invading and a shock victory, only for the Alliance to rally and to stomp the Horde into submission.

    I can see Horde members being tired of being dragged into losing wars by their warmongering leaders and wanting to join the blue team that is sane and actually wins, but I can never imagine any sane Alliance member ditching the winning team to go join the savages that have been genociding them non-stop for the past 40 years straight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Class restrictions exist to add flavor to the game. The more the restrictions are lifted, the less flavor the game has. In WC3, only Kaldorei men could become Druids while the women became wardens and priests. That was flavorful. WoW allowing anybody to become anything eroded part of what made the Nelves unique. I certainly don't want to see Forsaken paladins running around (or maybe you could keep the game mechanics, but lore wise it would be a completely different thing, like Sunwalkers. Class skins... please?)
    Sadly, wow is losing a lot of flavor, portals instead of ships and/or airships. This is just one part of that.

    IIRC there is some lore reason why undead can be Hpriests, to me it was the first nail in the coffin, so to speak (and no pun intended).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    Sadly, wow is losing a lot of flavor, portals instead of ships and/or airships.
    Ah yes, I remember when the Burning Legion attacked via airship, and the epic battles we had.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  9. #9
    These are very ambitious ideas for sure. I COULD see them having some place in WoW but definitely not in the version of WoW we have now. Changes this drastic wouldn't be implemented in the course of an expansion. It would likely take several expansions to even make them make sense both gameplay and (giggle) lorewise.

    I don't really think the team would EVER commit to such a change, but, IF they were to, my guess is they would do so for WoW 2.0 (which would probably be set several years after whatever events ended the original WoW for these changes to make sense).

    All in all some cool ideas, but hard to bake in organically in the current state of the game that we have.

  10. #10
    Look, the faction conflict is stupid and should have ended at Twilight of the Gods twenty years ago.

    As much as the faction conflict needs to hurry up and cease to be remotely relevant, that doesn't meant that reversing gears and just letting anyone play as whichever faction is good. The factions themselves are good, as they are a sort of shared identity. Blurring that line will ultimately only be harmful to the integrity of that identity—already is with the many added factions that struggle to find any point of cohesion.

    If anything, I'd like to see each racial subfaction and their cultural ideas and traditions matter more to players, and consequently have opposing viewpoints and conflicts within their faction. The Forsaken don't fit in alongside the rest of the Horde's idealogy—never have and never will—but one of the things that the Horde encompasses is the idea of outcasts banding together, and that makes for good common ground from which to tell a story of clashing cultures and racial identities. You know, explore some of the nuance instead of skipping over it. Night elves have a long history of persecuting arcane magic, but instead of having a relevant cultural exchange over it, it has just been handwaved away to no longer matter at all, and that is a crying bloody shame that ultimately has only hurt night elven racial identity.

    You wanna shake things up? Alright, maybe these cultural ideas don't need to be racially segregated, but give players a way to dedicate themselves to certain sub-ideas that have long stirred within the faction, and have it matter.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    Sadly, wow is losing a lot of flavor, portals instead of ships and/or airships. This is just one part of that.

    IIRC there is some lore reason why undead can be Hpriests, to me it was the first nail in the coffin, so to speak (and no pun intended).
    That was back when wow was a darker less cartoonish setting. Holy priests for the forsaken lived in horrible agony to weild their power and it actively damaged them.

    WoW really mellowed out somewhere around cata were the darker elements were phased out and outlandishness plots took their place. I think wrath of the lich king was the last " dark" expansion and they retroactively censored some of it.

    Now all the races feel like generic humans just painted a different color. The dreanai have kind of escaped this fate but I think that more has to do with them rarely having any characters be focused on barring when they are in alien worlds.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Mechagnome View Post
    Good evening, and welcome to my opinion. It is neither designed to sway the direction of the game, nor is it a demand for change. The following is simply an idea, written down, and shared for discussion. Thank you.

    After all these years, and all of the times the Alliance and Horde have come together to bring down the next big bad, I see the opportunity for change. In fact, there is substantial lore and evidence to suggest this is absolutely possible.

    1. The Knights of the Ebon Blade
    2. The Order of the Silver Hand
    3. Twilight Hammer Clan
    4. The Darkmoon Faire
    5. The Kirin Tor
    6. The Cenarion Circle


    All of these 3rd party factions have one thing in common: they all have Alliance and Horde races working side by side together. They all have the same goal, the same purpose. Now, while I would never join the Twilight Hammer, or even the Darkmoon Faire, I could be persuaded to do so with the Kirin Tor, or the Cenarion Circle as an example.

    So what does it mean? Where is this all going? Glad you asked. I believe a Traitor’s Questline would shake things up a bit. Much like the legwork needed to unlock an Allied Race, we need something at level 20 that unlocks an Allied Faction. What does that even mean “Allied Faction”? Allow me to explain. Sometimes, when someone no longer believes in a cause, they defect to another group and work for the other side. At level 20, you receive a cryptic message in your mailbox asking for a confidential meeting, outside of your faction’s zone. The other side has heard of you, and wants to recruit you; bring you over to their cause.

    So your Worgen Druid, or Dwarven Paladin decides to check it out. Even though you know a Dwarf would never EVER consider working with the Horde, you as a dwarf are simply tired of Alliance politics and wars we can’t win. You meet at the designated spot, agree to defect, and then a 25 step questline (same number to finish unlocking Vulpera) puts you through the test, and when you pass, you are welcomed by the Horde instantly changing your faction and your Dwarven Paladin is now Friendly with the Horde and hated by the Alliance. Same goes for your Forsaken Warlock, or Tauren Warrior. Welcome to the Alliance, because the Horde will kill you on site.

    Now, to make things even more wide open, here comes the second idea. Every class in this game, and every race, have technically worked side by side for thousands of years, and some races are curious about the abilities of other race’s classes. What does that even mean? Well, once again, I am glad you asked. Imagine a Gnome working side by side with a Dwarf and a Night Elf for several decades, but just doesn’t feel like he has a purpose. So he watches closely the class and abilities and gets excited about the potential to become more than he is and learn from the Druid, or the Dwarf. He could learn Shamanism, Paladial duties, Druidic nature magic, and might even build a mech suit to channel it.

    Sam goes for the Horde. A fallen Paladin, raised back up by the Vrykul still feels the pull of the Light, and instead of settling as a Priest, he needs his old life and new life to come back together to feel whole again. Forsaken Paladin. Maybe the Pandaren wants to learn how to be a Druid, or the Tauren wants to wield Fel magics because nature magic constantly backfires on him, and Sunwalkers don’t want him. Any race, could be any class (simply by following a questline to learn it) and then could be any faction at 20 (by doing another large questline).

    More content, more options, and you personally would not make a Gnome Paladin for the Horde, or a Forsaken Paladin who has come back to the Alliance, you simply do not do it. No harm, no foul. However, if you ever wanted a Goblin Druid, or a Worgen Paladin, imagine the Luke Skywalker style discipline questline that would absolve you of all your previous knowledge and disposition to now remake yourself in another Class’ image and then later decide if you even want to keep fighting for your faction. Best part, once you have done it one time with that race, all new characters would automatically unlock.

    So there it is, the wind up and the pitch. For those who made it this far, bravo. My idea for a complete Race/Class/Faction unlock through meta achievements and a way to open the game up so anyone can play their favorite race, and class, and faction. As shown in the very beginning, there are 6 major factions who are already free of the bonds of the Alliance and Horde, and Class halls showed regardless of race, your class defined you. Bosses prove that regardless of faction, your actions define you.

    Thanks for reading!
    1. The Knights of the Ebon Blade - Not part of the Alliance or Horde at all. they hold Alligance to the Lich King. Sure there are those who serve the Alliance/Horde(players)
    2. The Order of the Silver Hand As of BFA they are pretty much Alliance now, the Horde Factions the Blood Knights and Sunwalkers are technichly split now and the Order that Tirion 'recalled' is more or less disjunct
    3. Twilight Hammer Clan
    4. The Darkmoon Faire
    5. The Kirin Tor
    6. The Cenarion Circle

    Also Humans in stormwind if an random orc showed up, they will get instantly killed, not even questions asked, because.. most of humans in warcraft DO NOT LIKE orcs.
    There are survivers from Theramore, etc, same goes for the Horde. Most of the Horde do not like humans, this is shown in DF where the intro characters have to work with each other. they both bear a grudge.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    we KINDA did this already with Legion Class Halls
    Which means opening it up permanently shouldn't be an issue I liked class halls more than I did Garrisons or Covenants. Though, to be fair, my Druid prefers his Night Far to anything else. God bless Convoke the Spirits

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromell View Post
    These are very ambitious ideas for sure. I COULD see them having some place in WoW but definitely not in the version of WoW we have now. Changes this drastic wouldn't be implemented in the course of an expansion. It would likely take several expansions to even make them make sense both gameplay and (giggle) lorewise.

    I don't really think the team would EVER commit to such a change, but, IF they were to, my guess is they would do so for WoW 2.0 (which would probably be set several years after whatever events ended the original WoW for these changes to make sense).

    All in all some cool ideas, but hard to bake in organically in the current state of the game that we have.
    Well, we already have alternative quest lines, Meta achievement unlocks, in game items that allow cross faction talking, in game item that changes your loyalty based on PvP allowing you to attack your own party. There are toys to change your appearance, and more items that allow you special abilities and even abilities from a 2nd spec (looking at you Druid). As I see it, the only technical thing we are missing is:

    - the ability to permanently be tagged as the other faction
    - and permanently speaking the other language

    But if there is one thing Class halls taught us is, these can also already be accomplished, like the Rogue quest, with the Orc to get some blades. My whole city hated me, until I stopped the Demon. Also, most humans hated Scourge, then the DKs were welcome. Most humans feared Illidan, then DHs showed up. Humans hated Arthas, but seem to be ok with Bolvar, and not just humans. Every race in Oribios.

    Am I demanding it? Absolutely not. Am I sharing how it could work, and how it is already explained away? Absolutely

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    Sadly, wow is losing a lot of flavor, portals instead of ships and/or airships. This is just one part of that.

    IIRC there is some lore reason why undead can be Hpriests, to me it was the first nail in the coffin, so to speak (and no pun intended).
    Thankfully, we are getting talent trees back in 10.0 and people can build their class, their way the way we used to. But with that, imagine walking through the streets of orgrimmar and seeing two Engineers working side by side, for the Horde. A goblin, and a gnome. Now imagine two Paladins in Stormwind at the Cathedral discussing the philosophy of the Light. A human, and a Zandalari. What if the return of the Dragons and aspects it what "unites" the two warring factions, allowing them to exchange ideals, and even people? It's just fun to think about. As for Holy Forsaken, if a Tauren can "wield the sun" and Blood elves can "bend the power to their will" I would say the Forsaken could certainly find a way to manipulate it even further than their Priests already have
    “Be the change you want to see in the world.” ~ Mahatma Gandhi

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Other way around. The Horde has never won a war against the Alliance. Every Horde vs Alliance war begins with the Horde invading and a shock victory, only for the Alliance to rally and to stomp the Horde into submission.
    eh... what? there has been 4 aliance/horde wars, first ended up with stormwind being lost and survivors fleeing, so horde won, second ended up with horde fleeing through dark portal so alliance won (though that was due to fractions in horde if you know lore, guldan going for tomb and so on), third ended with siege of orgrimmar, so neither side really won as it was alliance AND horde agains garosh, and 4th war ended with armistice...
    so in a short, its 1:1 (or 2:2 if you count SoO as win for both), thats not really aliance "stomping Horde into submision"... so far its pretty much tie, and even thats not due to alliance might but more due to horde internal struggles... basicaly in only one of the conflict horde was united an that ended up with clear wictory for them...

    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    I can see Horde members being tired of being dragged into losing wars by their warmongering leaders and wanting to join the blue team that is sane and actually wins, but I can never imagine any sane Alliance member ditching the winning team to go join the savages that have been genociding them non-stop for the past 40 years straight.
    learn the lore, with exception of second war horde never really lost, and alliance never really won...
    as for genocides, oh yeah, i can totaly see belf being glad to join alliance and meet all those soldiers who murdered innocent belfs during Purge of Dalaran...
    or tauren hapily frolicking with dwarfs who commited genocide on one of their tribes in barrens just so they could dig there...
    or forsaken merrily fight alongside the humans who shunned them for being undead which is not their fault, but happily accepting worgen...
    or nightborne and belfs joining nelfs who consider them too power hungry, yet have no problem accepting void elfs...
    and zandalari will surely be happy to join people who killed their king (BEFORE they even joined horde) quite recently...
    Last edited by Lolites; 2022-08-27 at 05:54 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Every Horde vs Alliance war begins with the Horde invading
    You mean except the most recent one, a war so large and significant it was given a numbered place beside some of the biggest previous wars?

    Oh, but of course - the Alliance didn't REALLY attack first, it was a "preemptive strike". So they attacked first only because the Horde would have attacked first, so really they weren't first even though they were, because they really weren't, and oh stop it the Alliance can do no wrong now drop it!

  16. #16
    Instead of defecting to the other side, i suggest having 4 factions. Alliance, Horde, a faction for the Night elves and their allies and a faction for the Forsaken and their allies. Moreover, i suggest having the option to defect to villainous factions. Our characters are always portrayed as heroes, saving the world, even when it doesn't fit your image. Therefore, those that are tired of being heroes all the time can defect to the Burning Legion, Scourge, Twilight's Hammer, Syndicate, etc... etc....

    As for classes, there are always possibilities for more combinations. The lore already exists for many of them.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfox View Post
    IIRC there is some lore reason why undead can be Hpriests, to me it was the first nail in the coffin, so to speak (and no pun intended).
    ...this has been established lore since vanilla and prior. Play a different game world if you don't like it. There's literally nothing stopping the undead from using the light in Warcraft--beyond extraordinary and constant pain when channeling it that requires extreme willpower.

  18. #18
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    20,731
    I think it's going that way anyway with dismantling of faction barriers.

    I can totally see in like 4-6 years from now, like expansion 12/13.0 or some such this being expansion feature - where you no longer have to select Horde/Alliance on character creation screen and instead just pick whatever race and whatever class (and I bet that almost all restrictions will be dropped there, except for hard technological ones) and then you'd just join Alliance or Horde in the end of your starter/boost experience.

    I think it's going that way full speed.

  19. #19
    The Lightbringer Nathreim's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    San Antonio, Texas
    Posts
    3,059
    No. Blizz is going to do another war story you can already see the set up already. Turalyon is a zealot he and now he is leading the Alliance its clear Blizz is going to build him to be a foil for the Horde for the next war. The Alliance is just too Disney its just boring and unrealistic they need to be dirtied up a bit.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •