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  1. #201
    since apparently statements from people like me are dismissed by a certain poster as "oneliner" and therefore not mattering. here is a wall of text instead.

    1. I'm over 40
    2. I started playing Diablo with the first game and even have an unpopular opinion that Hellfire expansion "was good actualy" yes, even though it wasn't even made by Blizzard and itself was pretty short
    3. I have never, not once enjoyed trading. I have avoided it. starting with the first game, Diablo was a solo game for me. even when there was a point in time where I played it at a lan party (anyone remember those?) still played it solo. part of it especially now at my age is that my play time is often short and sporadic, so having to depend on other people to make progress is a definition of "DO NOT WANT" for me
    4. one of my least favorite aspects of playing diablo is getting loot that I cannot use on the character that I'm playing. at least 3 lets me deconstruct it to craft loot I do use. so yes announcement that loot drops are guaranteed to be class focused? is amazing as far as I'm concerned

    and so to reiterate. I'm the demographic that is "allegedly" supposed to like trading. and its the exact opposite. I don't like it. I don't like how in order to facilitate it the droprates are adjusted to all but require it.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Delekii View Post
    -Edge - Edge is a pro trader, no doubt.
    Absolutely not by any stretch of the imagination, I'm a mediocre trader at best. I generally prefer to avoid trading as much as possible, but will trade if there's enough benefit.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Absolutely not by any stretch of the imagination, I'm a mediocre trader at best. I generally prefer to avoid trading as much as possible, but will trade if there's enough benefit.
    I didn't mean pro as in professional, I meant advocating for the existence of trading :P I admit, you might have been being sarcastic here too and I just missed it, in which case I apologize!

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Did anyone do that? I think sales value were quoted to show that game perception changed significantly with RoS and that the game sold really well.
    I was talking about a few posters written beforehand, that I didn't want to quote to start a battle. I just wanted to point out that the comparison is ridiculous given the 15-year gap between them (things have changed drastically). My honest impression of D3 is fairly decent. I had fun playing those years they released it, lmao even had a college buddy arguing I spent too much time on the platform. Regardless, I'm just a dude that enjoys Blizzards games, can't stand a crooked look/ploy into something that can be explained with the expression of time...and i quote to nip this, it's nothing against you...

  5. #205
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    PoE has an amazing trading system, but you also don't need it to progress either. D4 could have done this. They could have had certain materials that were valuable, and used to trade from and for valuable items. They chose not to. Oh well, my expectations for Blizzard were low, I'm just still impressed they can continue to disappoint. Blizzard's signature "copy, improve, and innovate" seems gone.

    I don't see anything particularly new or exciting in the leaked information. It's all very "safe". As some have said, it's Diablo 3.5, just Reaper of Souls with a new coat of paint. If you're a fan of the current D3 model or DI, you'll be a fan of D4. If you like old Diablo and PoE style ARPG more, D4 is likely gonna be a bust.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    PoE has an amazing trading system, but you also don't need it to progress either. D4 could have done this. They could have had certain materials that were valuable, and used to trade from and for valuable items. They chose not to. Oh well, my expectations for Blizzard were low, I'm just still impressed they can continue to disappoint. Blizzard's signature "copy, improve, and innovate" seems gone.

    I don't see anything particularly new or exciting in the leaked information. It's all very "safe". As some have said, it's Diablo 3.5, just Reaper of Souls with a new coat of paint. If you're a fan of the current D3 model or DI, you'll be a fan of D4. If you like old Diablo and PoE style ARPG more, D4 is likely gonna be a bust.
    POE's trade system is absolute dog shit tier. its barely usable and thats only because of 3rd party sites.

    thankfully blizzard is not copying poe, or it would be a bloated mess just like poe
    Last edited by The Oblivion; 2022-08-21 at 06:02 AM.

  7. #207
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    POE's trade system is absolute dog shit tier. its barely usable and thats only because of 3rd party sites.

    thankfully blizzard is not copying poe, or it would be a bloated mess just like poe
    Agree to disagree. Again, they could copy and improve. That's what Blizzard used to do. But they'd also have to have the confidence to actually be able to improve upon it, and not make it even worse. And their track record on that hasn't been so grand.
    Plenty of people have been holding their breath waiting for me to fail. I think they all suffocated years ago.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zython View Post
    Just came here to remind people that the right has no moral conscious. If they ever try to morally scold you, it's not because they think what you're doing is wrong. Is because it's effective, and want to discourage you from doing it.

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Agree to disagree. Again, they could copy and improve. That's what Blizzard used to do. But they'd also have to have the confidence to actually be able to improve upon it, and not make it even worse. And their track record on that hasn't been so grand.
    they are better off copying and improving on d3 as the base vs poe. which is what they are doing.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Everything that makes diablo "diablo" is effectively dead. This is just Diablo 3.5.....
    Sounds good to me.

  10. #210
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Agree to disagree. Again, they could copy and improve. That's what Blizzard used to do. But they'd also have to have the confidence to actually be able to improve upon it, and not make it even worse. And their track record on that hasn't been so grand.
    But I think the point is for it not to be accessible. The moment a market becomes accessible, it becomes a better option than doing content. Making it crappy seems intentional. Unless you ESO where making it crappy is about roleplaying and verisimilititude (but it's still crappy!)

  11. #211
    I have no problem with this.

    But then...I'll probably play it through the story with a few characters and then uninstall it. I really REALLY don't give a shit about "seasons" and other similar content, nor do I care about min-maxing. So not being able to trade doesn't affect me one bit.

  12. #212
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynical Asshole View Post
    I have no problem with this.

    But then...I'll probably play it through the story with a few characters and then uninstall it. I really REALLY don't give a shit about "seasons" and other similar content, nor do I care about min-maxing. So not being able to trade doesn't affect me one bit.
    They could slowly add more story every few seasons.

  13. #213
    The Lightbringer Battlebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ManOluck View Post
    Everything that makes diablo "diablo" is effectively dead. This is just Diablo 3.5.....


    Gotta say my excitement has completely tanked for this game.

    3,5 sounds dreamy, as I absolutely LOVE Diablo 3 and really dislike Diablo 2.
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  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    3,5 sounds dreamy, as I absolutely LOVE Diablo 3 and really dislike Diablo 2.
    I agree. Diablo 2 is horribly outdated. I can tell that from playing Diablo 2 RE. It looks sweet, but the system is just stupid. Stamina system so I can't run, potion spamming so I can run, runes (or whatever it's called) taking space in inventory to give me passive bonuses.... it's just stupid. I wouldn't mind Diablo 3.5.
    I think Diablo 3 is an improvement in every way for Diablo franchise, and I've been playing Diablo 1 back in the 90s. Yes they made some mistakes when the game was released, but it has become a worthy successor. Unfortunately character visuals feel outdated and too blocky so I don't play it a lot nowadays. I'm waiting for Diablo 4.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Eyo fuck that noise. I get limiting trading on some items, but if there's basically 0 trading at endgame that's a huge, massive loss.

    I don't hate "smart" loot, but I also don't like it. Part of the fun of ARPG's is finding super cool gear for alts/friends characters and hanging onto it to use later. When you're basically only farming for yourself you're limiting how quickly you can put together solid builds on alts, which just drags that grind out and prevents you from using a "main" farm character to build up a stash of varied gear for characters you may want to build down the road.

    I just still don't freakin get it. One of the things that made D1/2 so successful online was the player trading economies (well, more for D2 since D1 had a lot more duping). Even without the third-party sites like JSP trading kept D2's multiplayer active and healthy for years and years without a single piece of new content or meaningful update to change the game.

    D4 looks amazing, but when they make decisions like this it gives me concern for the rest of the game and how they handle many other systems we haven't heard much about.
    I'm not a fan of the loot restriction either. Some of the design decisions scream "WoW...but isometric!"

    The highly controlled game experience doesn't sound appealing at all. Let the loot flow! Trade up, pass to alts, sell it.

    Not a fan of the game as service approach from D3, 4, immortal... Coming from playing a game like Grim Dawn, the D4 loot structure feels highly restricted... And for what reason?

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by The Oblivion View Post
    POE's trade system is absolute dog shit tier. its barely usable and thats only because of 3rd party sites.

    thankfully blizzard is not copying poe, or it would be a bloated mess just like poe
    I agree, POE's trade is terrible, its largely run by 3rd party sites and bots. Its also very susceptible to scammers.

    I'd rather have some limited trading, maybe an hour timer or something I dunno, I also like getting drops for other classes from time to time, it kinda helps a little if your making an alt.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by pahbi View Post
    I agree, POE's trade is terrible, its largely run by 3rd party sites and bots. Its also very susceptible to scammers.

    I'd rather have some limited trading, maybe an hour timer or something I dunno, I also like getting drops for other classes from time to time, it kinda helps a little if your making an alt.
    They probs have the same, that loot drops are sharable within the same party as they are in D3. Think the overall thing Blizzard is going with is that it doesn't really feel all that good to get your items from trading, but rather getting them as actual loot drops you can use. So I really doubt we will ever get trading back in Diablo games going forward.

  18. #218
    Actually i dont like POE in this , trade items for your build works , nah Im more happy when i can farm my items and make my build good on my own.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    They probs have the same, that loot drops are sharable within the same party as they are in D3. Think the overall thing Blizzard is going with is that it doesn't really feel all that good to get your items from trading, but rather getting them as actual loot drops you can use. So I really doubt we will ever get trading back in Diablo games going forward.
    That explanation doesn't even make the tiniest bit of sense, seriously, not even the smallest amount of sense, its so bad that it could only be copium made up for the masses.

    Think critically for a minute.

    How many players would actually get an entire set of armor from trade?

    .5% at most?

    The vast vast vast majority would get maybe 1 or 2 pieces from occasional grouping with others, and thats assuming people have something to trade for the armor, which gets into what I believe the real reason is for no trade.

    A more reasonable explanation for no trade IMO would be that Blizz doesn't want to deal with any kind of in game player economy. By making everything no trade, they don't have to deal with a host of issues.

    Obviously I wasn't sitting in on those meetings, so I can only speculate, but if I had to put money on a reason for no trade, it would that.
    Last edited by pahbi; 2022-11-06 at 11:29 PM.

  20. #220
    They're probably looking at Hearthstone's no-economy decision that seems to have worked out very well.

    I also have never traded with another player in D3, so I'm pretty fine with the idea.

    Player economies also these days can probably get into all sorts of international country specific digital asset issues, taxation, etc.

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