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  1. #61
    Pit Lord
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    Considering I dislike the fact PoE expects you to trade and balances the game around trading (yeah there are SSF builds that specifically aim for something that is as minimally reliant on gear as possible, usually boring minion/totem builds, and now they're nerfing those too), I'm all for it.

  2. #62
    Banned Strawberry's Avatar
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    I'm indifferent to this. In Diablo 3 you used trash items to salvage, but if that is gone, why even get drops that are not for your class?

  3. #63
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Item trading and non-guaranteed class focused drops is everything that makes Diablo... Diablo?


    And you're serious about claiming this?

  4. #64
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawberry View Post
    I'm indifferent to this. In Diablo 3 you used trash items to salvage, but if that is gone, why even get drops that are not for your class?
    One good reason, assuming there's an account-wide stash box like past games, is alts. Getting a great Wizard drop on my Barb player means I can send that to my Wizard character, or it might motivate me to start a Wizard to make use of it.

    That said, there definitely should be a weighting of loot, and I wouldn't have a problem with it working like D3, where you might occasionally get class drops for another class but it's rare.


  5. #65
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    10 bucks says OP was one of the guys who logged on D2 and just spammed "free stuff plz" in the rogue camp.

  6. #66
    Trading in arpgs sucks donkey dick, and "opting out" of trading by playing ssf is inherently made worse by the existence of trading and its impact on drops. You can't just "opt out" when the game is balanced around trading.

    If ssf was balanced separately to trading, I'd be all for it; go nuts.

    Tl;DR: Good.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by TbouncerT View Post
    This is a bummer. say so long to give friends and family items as you play with them. it's all personal loot and BoP. Gone are the days I see an excellent item for my barb buddy and I can't even trade anything to them worthwhile. even with the specific loot to your class ruins that too. oh well. they really are turning this into a forced solo game.
    I'll guarantee you can still trade within your party for a short window.

  8. #68
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    I don't mind not trading but it would still be nice to get free stuff.

  9. #69
    Trading is incredibly toxic in Diablo. Just look at D2: nothing except the most extreme drops has any appreciable value, 99.99999% of things are complete chaff not even worth picking up. Even popular items like Shako plummet in value in no time, because the only things people want are incredibly specific, incredibly rare drops used by everyone (e.g. Enigma runes), which warps the entire economy around them.

    The way PoE solves this is by differentiation, creating a gazillion things and systems that guarantee something is needed somewhere at all times by constantly removing vast amounts of items from the economy. That works, after a fashion - there's plenty of hate for trading in PoE, too, which is why SFF is a thing. But it also creates a VASTLY more complicated game structure where system upon system is piled on constantly, and that turns away a lot of players; its vast complexity is the main reason people cite for why they aren't playing PoE.

    A more mainstream game like Diablo could not do that, which means trading would almost immediately ruin the way you play by distorting every aspect of gameplay towards optimization for trade, since that's the deterministic way of obtaining gear.

    I want stuff I find to be cool. I don't want to just spend 100 hours farming and ignore every drop that isn't a High Rune because nothing else is worth anything.

  10. #70
    Herald of the Titans Nutri's Avatar
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    I must be an outliner, but I've always played Diablo as a solo game :P
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  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If trading is allowed, then the game is designed with that in mind.
    Again, literally doesn't have to be. PoE is balanced around SSF (solo self found) and works just fine in that mode.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutri View Post
    I must be an outliner, but I've always played Diablo as a solo game :P
    me too, which is why I'm happy they seem to be weighing the drops towards class specific ones. I'm also still somewhat confused about endgame, cause to me diablo was a finite game beginning with the first one. you finish the story - you are basically done, unless you want to play a different character/class

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    me too, which is why I'm happy they seem to be weighing the drops towards class specific ones. I'm also still somewhat confused about endgame, cause to me diablo was a finite game beginning with the first one. you finish the story - you are basically done, unless you want to play a different character/class
    Ummm, that's why we have different difficulties and seasons since D2. It is a staple of every ARPG out there and source of their longevity.
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-08-13 at 06:19 PM.
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  14. #74
    I played plenty of the original D2 and have played a decent amount of D2R as well. The one aspect I never cared for was trading and it's also the primary reason why I haven't spent more time playing D2R.

    If true (big if), no trading in D4 is great news to me.
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  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Ummm, that's why we have different difficulties and seasons since D2. It is a staple of every ARPG out there.
    /shrug and yet I've never cared for it, personaly (as I think I mentioned before, I started playing diablo with original, so any subsequent installments, I played exactly as I did original - as a solo, finite game). I tried playing through seasons in D3, mostly as a way to kill 2 birds with one stone - see the changes to story on different characters while also participating in this new mode and... meh.

    seems like a tacked on staple to me, but that's just me.

  16. #76
    Sounds great to me. I love Diablo III, because I can gear a character and complete a season in ~30 hours, and then take a break until the next season. There's usually a new build I can try each season that makes the gameplay fresh. This is perfect for a dad in his 30s with limited time to play. Diablo III offers additional character progression if you have more time.

  17. #77
    For all these takes where people keep insisting that JUST THE EXISTENCE of trading ruins the game because it's "balanced around it," I haven't read a single piece of concrete evidence to support it.

    Taking myself as an example: I play a ton of PoE, a decent amount of D2/D2:R and can only stomach a few days' worth of D3 every few years. I also exclusively play PoE in a private league with just a few friends & D2 in single player, so I basically don't trade at all, other than helping friends out.
    Despite all this, I love that drops are not tailor-made to my character, because I find that boring as hell and unrealistic. I like finding cool items that potentially enable other builds I could play, and the interaction between different builds.
    I can farm areas/maps with my characters that are better suited for that, while I can also have dedicated boss killers, lab farmers, whatever I have in mind, and get their gear without having to level them up first, then struggle to farm on them because they aren't built for magic finding.
    This goes hand-in-hand with trading, as precedented by D3's expansion. You either get one or the other.

    Also, I really don't see drops being balanced around trading either: in both D2 and PoE's case, the most expensive items aren't necessarily the rarest; there are also a bunch of items that are equally rare with a massive price difference. Hell, even variants of the same item with equal chance of spawning differ A LOT. The same can also be said about runes in D2 where the most useful and expensive ones are like the 3rd and 4th rarest.
    In general, there's a ton of discrepancy between rarity and ingame value.
    IMO developers also couldn't give a shit about how many of X item/currency Timmy is going to pay Johnny for Y item, as long as the game's economy is healthy and the influx/outflow of currency is OK, so they have no reason to even bother with balancing drops around trading. If anything, they're balancing drops of trade currency around the stuff that makes them go out of the economy, i. e. crafting in PoE and runewords in D2 (with ladder/league duration added on top in both), but I can't say I was ever annoyed at how few Ist runes or Exalted Orbs I'm finding because of the damn traders, when I'd like to use a bunch of them myself.

    +As an additional positive: if you're a type of player that only likes to do one type of activity, but still need something from another type of activity, trading would allow you to trade your drops to get those.
    Thinking about D3: if you only like to push Greater Rifts but can't be arsed with speedfarming regular ones -- tough shit, because you still need rift keys to do GRs. Or gems/mats to reroll stats on gear.
    A game can "solve this" by just making everything drop from everywhere, but if you ask me, that's a pretty boring way to design a game. I prefer thematic and diverse rewards from different types of activity, even if I don't necessarily like doing all of them.

  18. #78
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bajcli View Post
    For all these takes where people keep insisting that JUST THE EXISTENCE of trading ruins the game because it's "balanced around it," I haven't read a single piece of concrete evidence to support it.

    Taking myself as an example; . . .
    To provide a counterpoint, I've been playing Diablo since the first game's launch, and I don't play games like PoE precisely because it feels based around trading.

    I played MMOs for years, I was the Shaman mod here for years around WotLK-Cataclysm-MoP. I grew to loathe playing with most people. I don't mind them running around me doing their own thing; I hate relying on them. For anything. It's not the social aspect that irks me, it's the time investment to find likeminded players and the generally limited return for doing so; it's just not worth it to me any more.

    Trading forces me to try and A> find someone who's got what I need, B> is willing to trade it, and C> isn't going to try and fuck me over about it in some way or another, from straight-up stealing to just gouging me on price. That's work, even if it's through a nice easily-searchable in-game auction house, and it's work that isn't fun, so now I'm spending have-fun time doing make-work so I can unlock the fun bit.

    I don't play Skinner Boxes any more, thanks.

    I don't have any problem farming stuff myself, as long as the gameplay loop is enjoyable; D3's generally is, by comparison. Farming in that kind of system is more about "Which specific flavor of fun am I best served enjoying today?" rather than a boring-ass grind. In any game, that core gameplay loop has to be engaging in and of itself, otherwise, you're just punching at a Skinner box hoping to unlock future "fun".

    Trading ends up being exactly that. I'd much prefer to go fun a few dozen regular rifts to grind up greater rift keystones than poke at an auction house trying to find a good price for them. Especially when the currency I'm trading is something else I'd have to grind, particularly if the items I want are priced higher than I can afford. Now we're two steps deep into Skinner Boxes. I'm punching one so I canafford to punch another.

    If you focus on making the game itself fun, the core gameplay cycle itself engaging and enjoyable, then it shouldn't matter; you're gonna enjoy farming up the items you need regardless.

    D3's not perfect; I reinstall every few seasons and punch out a season for kicks, and then I move on. But I have reinstalled it three or four times by now to do so. And that's more of a success than most games of the genre, and it really only kicked in after launch when they completely revamped everything and made trading unnecessary. Trading's a replacement for a properly-balanced rewards system; in an ideal world, you're able to get what you need through normal gameplay alone. Trading contributes precisely nothing but negatives to my experience. Why am I spending tons of money to get that awesome weapon? It's either because the drop rate's so low I can't ever expect to find it myself (bad design), or because I'm paying to skip playing the game and just get the reward, and that says to me the core gameplay loop is garbage enough that I want to avoid playing it. And that makes me ask; why do I still have this un-fun game installed on my hard drive?


  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Nutri View Post
    I must be an outliner, but I've always played Diablo as a solo game :P
    You are not an outlier, the vast majority played D1 and D2 offline. D3 has no specific numbers other than console co-op being the most popular mode played by around half the players.

  20. #80
    SOURCE IN THE OP? No trading will be horrible...For fuck sake, hope its fake news.
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