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  1. #21
    raids should drop valor and have a means to upgrade with said valor. to keep up with spammable m+. i my self started this season with 276 ilvl. i currently have a 292. ive gotten one drop from clearing fated CN a belt. gave it away as my M+ belt was stated better. same ilvl at the time tho. now the belt is 295 so its better than my raid drop. i got nothing out of the vault from fated heroic raid that could improve any slot i had due to M+ and the uncapped valor. it is a problem now but raid gear will catch up....if the season last long enough. and the season lasting long is not a good thing as content right now is used up.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Uncapped valor feels great, and it's also really fun to run a lot of M+ now at the start of the season! I'm far from elite, but have run a bunch and currently sitting at 1771 rating, and nearly all my slots are 291 at this point. (spent 5k valor already, oops.)

    The thing is, as long as raid is capped at loot once per week per boss, heroic raids can't compete at all. Our guild is currently stuck running normal, even though we got curve in s3, due to a mix of returning players and some players who don't do M+. And I really don't want to even talk about forcing our raiders to do content they don't like and don't have time for, but...we're looking at a gear gap of 30 ilvls or more between M+ers and pure raiders.

    Normally the vault loot is what really puts M+ ahead of heroic raids, but with uncapped valor you don't even need the vault. Just run dungeons if you like that, and be heroic raid geared in 10 days.

    It's really fun to be able to go ham on M+ and look at completing KSM this week or next week (next week for me), but it's causing a strain on our raid group. We're just at such different levels.
    It's still worth it for the few raid items you can get with the currency. In some ways that makes it more worthwhile (for a time) since you can actually guarantee getting something

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral froschhure's Avatar
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    vault is a bad design choice, not uncapped currency
    love WoWarcraft

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by froschhure View Post
    vault is a bad design choice, not uncapped currency
    This is the best answer. HUGE part of why I left WoW last year.

  5. #25
    Last months of the expansion, I'm feeling positive, that the cap will be reintroduced at DF

    I'm enjoying being able to farm massive amounts of Valor if needed

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Uncapped valor feels great, and it's also really fun to run a lot of M+ now at the start of the season! I'm far from elite, but have run a bunch and currently sitting at 1771 rating, and nearly all my slots are 291 at this point. (spent 5k valor already, oops.)

    The thing is, as long as raid is capped at loot once per week per boss, heroic raids can't compete at all. Our guild is currently stuck running normal, even though we got curve in s3, due to a mix of returning players and some players who don't do M+. And I really don't want to even talk about forcing our raiders to do content they don't like and don't have time for, but...we're looking at a gear gap of 30 ilvls or more between M+ers and pure raiders.

    Normally the vault loot is what really puts M+ ahead of heroic raids, but with uncapped valor you don't even need the vault. Just run dungeons if you like that, and be heroic raid geared in 10 days.

    It's really fun to be able to go ham on M+ and look at completing KSM this week or next week (next week for me), but it's causing a strain on our raid group. We're just at such different levels.
    To start off: I dont have a raid team and I dont raid. I spend my time in game pug’ing m+ and dabbling in pvp (just 1800 usually for the set, super casual low end stuff)

    When you’re an old boomer like me: sometimes its best to stick to part of the game with least resistance: that right now for sure is M+. Right now I’m currently 2248 (m+ rating/io) and ilvl 291. Now vs most others in m+ I am middle of the pact, I may have a slight gain on io but my ilvl vs mythic raiders isnt even close, most mythic raiders already have 295-298.. even if their io is a little lower.

    What I’m trying to say is: if blizz is going to balance the game, normally it has a valor cap so that you cant upgrade/HAVE to run m+ like I do right? They did that this season and this season only because they thought they wanted to try something theyve never done before.

    If you want to see how crazy things are: look at the high high end players on rio/wowprog and you’ll literally shit yourself, these people have literally max gear with avoidance/leech and every single piece, they have the rings from mech dungeons already and most of them literally get paid 200-300kU$D a year sponsored just to plat wow lol, like compared to these people none of are even close

  7. #27
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheezits View Post
    The amount of people who do content they don't like to get good gear are a minority.
    Feels more different considering the common whining through expansions, it feels more to be, "the number of people who do content they like to get good gear are a minority".
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    That is the big question, together with "why doesn't valor drop in raids and raid items are upgradable, too".
    I understand the raids not spammable thing because it causes an unhealthy playstyle.
    I'd say the real problem is your question, valor should absolutely have been applied to raids.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Nah nah, see... I live by one simple creed: You might catch more flies with honey, but to catch honeys you gotta be fly.

  9. #29
    Uncapped is great. That means I can be away from the game for a while, return, and then play a whole lot and catch up. Having cap on things is quite boring and serves little to any good use.

    And, if you are a player that runs SL dungeons so much you find it unfun/Boring/easy... Well, I highly doubt thats most players.

    In essence, its a non issue.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Puri View Post
    No, uncapped valor has nothing to do with it.

    Even in the previous raids with capped valor it did not matter. M+14 dropped 262 loot in season 3, and heroic raid dropped 265. Heroic raids (for items) have been invalidated ever since m+, which is spammable and has items that are upgradable to mythic level.
    Very true. Only undergeared characters get upgrades on heroic raids, even if you are progressing heroic! The only exception is unique effect items, like trinkets and some weapons.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Uncapped is great. That means I can be away from the game for a while, return, and then play a whole lot and catch up. Having cap on things is quite boring and serves little to any good use.

    And, if you are a player that runs SL dungeons so much you find it unfun/Boring/easy... Well, I highly doubt thats most players.

    In essence, its a non issue.
    you can catch up just fine with a seasonal cap like its been previously. uncapped only means you can spam 60 dungeons in week 1 and then never have to worry about valor again, but you could spam 60 dungeons to catch up on valor 2 months into the previous patch too.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    Uncapped is great. That means I can be away from the game for a while, return, and then play a whole lot and catch up. Having cap on things is quite boring and serves little to any good use.
    Would note that your situation is a solved problem; the existing valor cap is technically season-wide, but it increased each week. First week, cap of 750 valor. Next week, 1500. And so on.

    So if you took a break and went away for a month you could come back and farm M+ until you had caught up to those who had farmed their 750 valor each week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I will say that in earlier seasons heroic raiding was invalidated mostly by the vault gear, but this season, with infinite valor, it's happening even more quickly.

  13. #33
    I mean whatever, it's a joke season for 3 monts anyway.

    Other than that - it's not like everyone goes crazy doing 70 M+ a week or some shit. I did a grand total of 4 runs so far and most of my loot is from Heroic and Mythic Fated raids - I just figured I'd take it chill this "season" and you can bet there are tons of people like me.
    All my ignores are permanently filtered out and invisible to me. Responding to my posts with nonsense or insults is pointless, you're likely already invisible and if not - 3 clicks away. One ignore is much better than 3 pages of trolling.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    I will say that in earlier seasons heroic raiding was invalidated mostly by the vault gear, but this season, with infinite valor, it's happening even more quickly.
    There are quite a few pretty stellar trinkets in these fated raids so while the item level disparity between M+ers and Heroic raiders may increase I don't think demand for Heroic raiding is going down. If anything, it's probably at an all time high since many of my M+ friends who previously had no interest in raiding are at least considering a Heroic PuG.

  15. #35
    High Overlord zhorteye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Uncapped valor feels great, and it's also really fun to run a lot of M+ now at the start of the season! I'm far from elite, but have run a bunch and currently sitting at 1771 rating, and nearly all my slots are 291 at this point. (spent 5k valor already, oops.)

    The thing is, as long as raid is capped at loot once per week per boss, heroic raids can't compete at all. Our guild is currently stuck running normal, even though we got curve in s3, due to a mix of returning players and some players who don't do M+. And I really don't want to even talk about forcing our raiders to do content they don't like and don't have time for, but...we're looking at a gear gap of 30 ilvls or more between M+ers and pure raiders.

    Normally the vault loot is what really puts M+ ahead of heroic raids, but with uncapped valor you don't even need the vault. Just run dungeons if you like that, and be heroic raid geared in 10 days.

    It's really fun to be able to go ham on M+ and look at completing KSM this week or next week (next week for me), but it's causing a strain on our raid group. We're just at such different levels.
    Season 4 is not really a "Competitive" season.. Uncapped valor right now doesnt matter AT ALL
    All the gear you get now, will help you go through the new content of dragonflight faster, but it will be replaced before max level..
    Theres really no reason for season 4 to not just be a "go ham" patch..

    as someone else already mentioned, you still need the vault to get Equal To Mythic gear..

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    To start off: I dont have a raid team and I dont raid. I spend my time in game pug’ing m+ and dabbling in pvp (just 1800 usually for the set, super casual low end stuff)

    When you’re an old boomer like me: sometimes its best to stick to part of the game with least resistance: that right now for sure is M+. Right now I’m currently 2248 (m+ rating/io) and ilvl 291. Now vs most others in m+ I am middle of the pact, I may have a slight gain on io but my ilvl vs mythic raiders isnt even close, most mythic raiders already have 295-298.. even if their io is a little lower.

    What I’m trying to say is: if blizz is going to balance the game, normally it has a valor cap so that you cant upgrade/HAVE to run m+ like I do right? They did that this season and this season only because they thought they wanted to try something theyve never done before.

    If you want to see how crazy things are: look at the high high end players on rio/wowprog and you’ll literally shit yourself, these people have literally max gear with avoidance/leech and every single piece, they have the rings from mech dungeons already and most of them literally get paid 200-300kU$D a year sponsored just to plat wow lol, like compared to these people none of are even close
    I think the crux of the issue is equating a 2000ish IO and doing +15s to fill mythic raiders clears.

    2000 is easier than Aotc let alone CE.

    The difficulty to reward ratio is all messed up.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Argorwal View Post
    I think the crux of the issue is equating a 2000ish IO and doing +15s to fill mythic raiders clears.

    2000 is easier than Aotc let alone CE.

    The difficulty to reward ratio is all messed up.
    Yep, KSM is Curve, not CE. The reward structure is off.

    With capped valor and vault awarding end-of-dungeon loot would make it closer to HC raid. And then you could allow upgrades all the way to 311 at 2500 rating or something.

    But that's for DF. For this season it's just an issue for guilds where some do M+ and others don't, but I guess it's more loot from raids for the slackers

  18. #38
    It seems clear to me that people enjoy M+ more than raiding. They should double down on M+ and reduce the significance of raiding.

    Arbitrary caps to try to control how much players play are poison. Everybody should be able to gear up as fast as they want or can. And when you've reached close to the maximum ilvl, there should still be a way to get further upgrades if you're committed enough.

    The only reason why Blizzard introduces caps is to slow players down, in the futile hope that it will make them stay subscribed longer.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2022-08-12 at 07:27 PM.

  19. #39
    So somebody is mad that people with more time to play the game have more things than him/her in said game?


    Ummm....

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by matheney2k View Post
    So somebody is mad that people with more time to play the game have more things than him/her in said game?


    Ummm....
    It's not clear in the OP but he's concerned with Heroic (not Mythic) raidloggers' gear progression being outstripped by M+ers.

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