1. #1

    Dragonflight Hunter Talents and Abilities Feedback - August 12, 2022

    Dragonflight Hunter Talents and Abilities Feedback - August 12, 2022
    Originally Posted by Blizzard (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)
    Hello again Hunters,

    This won’t be a specific list of everything that has changed, but some notes on changes coming to the next build.

    Class Tree:
    • Some minor changes have been made to some node connections.
    • Lone Survivor’s cooldown reduction has been lowered from 60 to 30 seconds.
    • Death Chakram should work in non-Shadowlands zones, and should increase all damage taken rather than just Physical damage taken
    • Master Marksman should work with melee abilities as well.

    Marksmanship
    • Lots of bug fixes.
    • Legacy of the Windrunners has changed into a 2-point node again, each point will add 3 wind arrows. Also any buffs to Aimed Shot now applies to these Wind Arrows.
      • To clarify the point about Legacy of the Windrunners gaining bonuses from Aimed Shot, this is any buffs to crit chance or damage to Aimed Shot. Trick Shots will not be sending Wind Arrows all over the place.
    • New talent in the bottom left area: Bulletstorm. Extra targets your Aimed Shot or Rapid Fires ricochet to from Trick Shots grants a stacking buff to your Multi-Shot damage.
    • Bombardment has changed to a 1 point node and is located right below Multi-Shot
      • There has been some discussion about how Bombardment should work, or perhaps that it should just work like the current 4-piece set bonus with alternate numbers. Tracking resources spent is difficult in the default UI, and most people feel it is necessary to get an addon to track how much more Focus they have to spend to get a Trick Shots effect.
      • With the current design of X Arcane/Chimaera shots required as opposed to Focus Spent, why require a Multi-Shot instead of just granting Trick Shots? Most of the purpose of this talent is to provide some limited options for Trick Shots when you don’t have 3+ targets to consistently gain Trick Shots. If the fight has one target most of the time, and occasionally some adds spawn, getting a buff that guarantees your next Multi-Shot to grant you a Trick Shots regardless of targets hit should grant you increased control over when you want to use the effect. The Bombardment buff currently lasts 2 minutes, so there is no rush to try to jam in some extra shots right as some adds spawn, you have time to prepare and use this.
    • Calling the Shots has had its design adjusted to grant cooldown reduction for Trueshot from Focus Spent, rather than require specific shots.

    Beast Mastery and Survival have also had some bug fixes, but no notable design changes this week. That doesn’t mean things are final.

    edit: To clarify the point about Legacy of the Windrunners gaining bonuses from Aimed Shot, this is any buffs to crit chance or damage to Aimed Shot. Trick Shots will not be sending Wind Arrows all over the place.



    Podh: I hope the team looks at the proc rate or damage on the Wind Arrows such that it is a competitive choice in single target talent setups.

    This is the goal. It may not be there with current numbers, but these 3 points (yes, they are still 3 total points, Windrunner’s Guidance is 1-point again), is that this should be competitive. Maybe it needs to be from Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire. Maybe Arcane Shot/Chimaera shot can also cause it. There’s danger in lumping too much extra damage to Aimed Shot for PvP reasons - hypothetical numbers, if Aimed Shot normally does 1000 damage, but via procs can sometimes do 2500 damage, the damage swing is super high. A lot of bonuses were pulled out of Aimed Shot in BFA/Shadowlands and just lumped into Aimed Shot damage to try to keep its damage consistently strong.

    Podh: Bulletstorm

    Bulletstorm’s design is currently a buff that stacks up to 10, but doesn’t refresh duration as you gain stacks. It lets you get some big Multi-Shots in, but in a cyclical fashion.

    Podh: additional talents that specifically buff Rapid Fire

    There’s some potential tree restructure that has to happen if this is the case, because Rapid Fire is technically optional, and having a line of things coming off of rapid fire and not connecting anywhere else limits how you can move your points around the tree. That isn’t to say this isn’t possible, just that it’s more involved than just putting a node somewhere that buffs only Rapid Fire.

    Asthelon: replacing Survival’s Mastery

    There are no plans to redesign any of the Mastery effects for Hunters.



    I should clarify my post above a bit more.

    PvP is a concern for abilities that sometimes deal big damage or heal lot. This is true for the game as a whole. We have tools available to change things in PvP compared to PvE. While these tools obviously work, it’s not intuitive that Aimed Shot does 1000 damage against a kobold, and 500 damage against a player because of a hidden multiplier.

    There are also PvE concerns of your abilities swinging in damage a lot. Partly for tuning reasons, but also for how the game feels. Again using hypothetical numbers, if Aimed Shot does 1000 damage, but sometimes 2500, your damage variance from each boss attempt, or on that difficult M+ pack, or in the Mage Tower challenges, or wherever, is very unstable. Sometimes it’s OK for your damage to be very swingy, some specs inherently have a lot of randomness in how they play and that’s by design. Critical strikes are already a thing that exist that changes your damage a lot, but you don’t often pull a boss and think “oh, my aimed shot didn’t crit, lets reset and try again”. That’s obviously an extreme example, but if there’s so much randomness tied to one ability’s damage, and that ability is a significant part of your total throughput, maybe it’s a problem we should try to address.



    Podh: Similarly with Hunter’s Knowledge, Focused Aim, and Deathblow - if I take those talents, why would I also not take Rapid Fire?

    If they only buff Aimed Shot, does that make Rapid Fire less desirable because it has fewer modifiers than Aimed Shot?



    I did not intend my question to be combative if it came off that way, it was just a question of how things look at a glance. For players who don’t rely on 3rd party sites or high end theorycrafting, if they look at the tree and see 5 things that only buff Aimed Shot, and Rapid Fire off to the side, Rapid Fire probably looks like a much less desirable button. When these 5 things buff both Aimed Shot and Rapid Fire, maybe it’s a good push in the right direction that Rapid Fire is an important button you should get, and these bonuses also work on that ability so you feel like you’re getting full value from them.

    Neither direction is objectively correct or incorrect.
    Last edited by Lumy; 2022-08-12 at 11:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire SNES-1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    The North
    Posts
    448
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Ontario, CAN
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by SNES-1990 View Post
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.
    Hunters, Paladins and Druids are the three most popular classes, it is not surprising they're going to get the lion's share of attention - whether or not you think that should be the case.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by SNES-1990 View Post
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.
    I literally came to say the same thing!! This is like the 5th hunter feedback update Ive seen on the main page!

  5. #5
    World of Warcraft: Hunter

  6. #6
    Brewmaster Kissthebaby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    1,362
    They deserve the most feedback. The class has been bad since Legion when they completely redesigned all 3 specs (play style wise not dps). Its about time something is being done.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by SNES-1990 View Post
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.
    The Hunter trees are designed poorly, which is being echoed by (possibly) everyone with a say in the posts.
    BM was in a decent place. The original tree for SV had talents that only work if you pick something you may not take, such as Wildfire Infusion green bomb being meaningless unless you took Serpent Sting in the class tree. Not to mention that many of the talents required 3 points, and so far, had the most point requirement of any tree.
    Blizzard is trying to find work arounds, and even those haven’t been great. Hunters also have no party/raid utility outside of Heroism/Bloodlust, which others bring on top of other utility. So yeah, I can understand why Hunters are getting a lot of feedback right now.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by SNES-1990 View Post
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.
    As a monk main it’d be nice to even get a talent tree.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Druids
    That’s hilarious since if you check feedback threads in the alpha forums druids have literally ZERO blue response, and ZERO new changes in the new build despite their base tree and feral being absolute train wrecks and multiple community feedback opinions on how to fix them.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by SNES-1990 View Post
    Is it just me or are they giving hunters WAY more feedback and attention than every other class? Feels like we see a blue post on them every other day.
    Because you have to explain things to hunters very slowly over and over to make a point

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kals View Post
    That’s hilarious since if you check feedback threads in the alpha forums druids have literally ZERO blue response, and ZERO new changes in the new build despite their base tree and feral being absolute train wrecks and multiple community feedback opinions on how to fix them.
    This is true complete silence about the crappy feral tree and druid trees in general.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Ontario, CAN
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Kals View Post
    That’s hilarious since if you check feedback threads in the alpha forums druids have literally ZERO blue response, and ZERO new changes in the new build despite their base tree and feral being absolute train wrecks and multiple community feedback opinions on how to fix them.
    Feral is 4th last, 0.066% of the player base (wowanalytica) whereas Balance is in the top 5. It is unlikely they will waste much more time on Feral, but once they're done being busy with Hunters they will likely make sure Balance, Restoration and Guardian are appeased before moving onto Paladins. We'd rather you didn't play Demonology Feral.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    This is true complete silence about the crappy feral tree and druid trees in general.
    I'm not really used to defending blizz so bare with me here, but why would they try to fix several classes all at the same time instead of focusing on one at a time? Multitasking in programming etc. is generally a difficult thing to do with a rather large margin for error. I don't think they have class "departments" where a select group of people work exclusively on one class, otherwise I suppose a valid complaint would be "why is the Hunter team the only one who posts?"

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Feral is 4th last, 0.066% of the player base (wowanalytica) whereas Balance is in the top 5. It is unlikely they will waste much more time on Feral, but once they're done being busy with Hunters they will likely make sure Balance, Restoration and Guardian are appeased before moving onto Paladins. We'd rather you didn't play Demonology Feral.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not really used to defending blizz so bare with me here, but why would they try to fix several classes all at the same time instead of focusing on one at a time? Multitasking in programming etc. is generally a difficult thing to do with a rather large margin for error. I don't think they have class "departments" where a select group of people work exclusively on one class, otherwise I suppose a valid complaint would be "why is the Hunter team the only one who posts?"
    Think alot of people are worried as feral especially had the same problems going into shadowlands with tons of feedback on the official forums but no blue posts and barely any changes that i remember. Pretty much everyone was boomkin at the snart of sl for damage but that spec was also op as fuck to be honest. Feral is my spec too so naturally im worried seeing the tree compared to others.

    But we will see there is still hope of course.
    Last edited by ParanoiD84; 2022-08-13 at 06:34 PM.
    Do you hear the voices too?

  14. #14
    Elemental Lord Gimlix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    The Netherlands!
    Posts
    8,983
    Quote Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
    Hunters, Paladins and Druids are the three most popular classes, it is not surprising they're going to get the lion's share of attention - whether or not you think that should be the case.
    Warrior, paladin and rogue are sure very popular too though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Oneirophobia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Northern Ontario, CAN
    Posts
    4,924
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Warrior, paladin and rogue are sure very popular too though.
    Warrior is #4, rogue is - believe it or not - rather unpopular. I didn't look at their numbers earlier when posting here, but when I checked them in early BFA they were 3rd least played, warlocks second last, and monks the least played class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ParanoiD84 View Post
    Think alot of people are worried as feral especially had the same problems going into shadowlands with tons of feedback on the official forums but no blue posts and barely any changes that i remember. Pretty much everyone was boomkin at the snart of sl for damage but that spec was also op as fuck to be honest. Feral is my spec too so naturally im worried seeing the tree compared to others.

    But we will see there is still hope of course.
    I try Feral at least once an expac and am always disappointed in the state they're in.

  16. #16
    So when are Priests actually getting feedback beyond "we're working on it. here's a few buffs to keep you happy"?

  17. #17
    while the incite into hunter is fun to read, my monk is still waiting for a basic tree to look at. come on blizz.

  18. #18
    The druid dev litterly quit thats why theres no feedback

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •