Two expansions with target cap, how do you feel?

[Nymrohd]

The version that stopped moves from damaging more than 5-8 things at a time can fuck off, but the version that splits the damage between mobs above the hit limit is fine.

AoE is still pretty buckwild even with the damage being spread out.

Largely agreed to this. Otherwise M+ at higher levels becomes entirely about kiting as large packs as possible so you can unload every AoE cooldown on them.

[AudibleEscalation]

It still feels bad. There are no redeeming qualities.
Hasn't made any impact to high-key meta or pulls.

[javierdsv]

They've updated and modified it to hell and back, but it's still the same WC3 engine that they've been using for nearly 30 years. Remember when they were forced to upgrade to 64 bit after bosses like Ra'den broke the limit of 32 bit and they had to workaround on Garrosh making him heal multiple times while they worked to replace it?

There were multiple theads in BFA talking about the strain on the servers when the world boss in Vale was being fought, since player times spells plus procs plus spell effects plus everything else made the whole zone lag to a standstill.

And this is exactly why I think the aoe cap limits and gcd changes were meant to low server calculations, of course it would improve performance, but mainly to save money. People think there are no technical challenges or limitations for games nowadays, but there sure are.

[enigma77]

It's great.

*laughs in destro warlock*

[Unlimited Power]

I don't mind the current incarnation. Frankly it affects me so rarely anyways that I barely even consider it.

[Relapses]

It still feels bad. There are no redeeming qualities.
Hasn't made any impact to high-key meta or pulls.

It absolutely has had an impact. It's why Rogue (Outlaw specifically) up until this season was completely non-existent in higher keys.

[deenman]

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. I can't believe you're seriously thinking that they're target capping to save money on server processing. That's... I don't know. I think I need to log off the internet for awhile.

you rly think a company that is willing to LITERALY cause the death of their customers with gambling addiction (a statistical fact) for profit,is beyond giving players a shit experience to save money? ykes

well anyways,i dont know if thats the reason,im mostly in the camp of they do it to lessen the load so the game doesnt feel like crap,but thats actualy an optimistic take so is likely wrong knowing blizz

[Relapses]

you rly think a company that is willing to LITERALY cause the death of their customers with gambling addiction (a statistical fact) for profit,is beyond giving players a shit experience to save money? ykes

well anyways,i dont know if thats the reason,im mostly in the camp of they do it to lessen the load so the game doesnt feel like crap,but thats actualy an optimistic take so is likely wrong knowing blizz

I really don't think the processing power required to determine whether a target hits one or one infinity targets is all that intensive. Target capping is intended as a balancing measure first and foremost. Writing it off as "Blizzard just wants to save money" is so far into the realm of whacky conspiracy theories that I have a very hard time believing a real life human being is able to think like this. Yet... here we are.

[Gumble]

As a tank I don't particularly like it, however I understand the reasoning given some classes/specs have a huge bulk of their damage passively AOE everything where others do not.

I think the system works fine with the Spread damage beyond 5-8 targets system we have now. Its not GREAT, but unless they want to change how certain specs work then it does ok.

I personally still think it would be better to make some specs awesome at full out AOE, some awesome at cleave, some at single target and have a mix of those fights in raids and dungeons, but that's alot of work.... so....

[deenman]

I really don't think the processing power required to determine whether a target hits one or one infinity targets is all that intensive. Target capping is intended as a balancing measure first and foremost. Writing it off as "Blizzard just wants to save money" is so far into the realm of whacky conspiracy theories that I have a very hard time believing a real life human being is able to think like this. Yet... here we are.

well,what we know for sure is that at some point,the game started to feel bad,preach made a video with dice,showing that all the actions characters do these days and damage calculations are causing it,and when would that be at its worse if not when doing huge aoe?

[hulkgor]

It mostly just hasn't worked to do what they hoped as far as I can tell. People still pull big, they just take the classes that aren't capped and can handle it!

Outlaw Rogue is capped hard but is still one of the most popular and one of the strongest classes on m+.

Go figure.

[LordVargK]

Don't care. I only play classes without a hard target cap or with an inherent cap (chain lightning, DoT classes)

[Argorwal]

They should probably give in and just remove it.

They are trying to limit the how mass aoe pulling is the solution to everything in mythic+ but as long as it’s infinite scaling it’s always going to be about mass pulling.

Mass pulling is the entire game for an entire game mode, so trying to hamstring it is kinda pointless.

Nobody cares about aoe caps in PvP and raids.

[Stickiler]

well,what we know for sure is that at some point,the game started to feel bad,preach made a video with dice,showing that all the actions characters do these days and damage calculations are causing it,and when would that be at its worse if not when doing huge aoe?

When you say dice, are you referring to rolling a six-sided die? Or like, the game company DICE?

[deenman]

When you say dice, are you referring to rolling a six-sided die? Or like, the game company DICE?

I mean rolling a six sided die,wait...isnt that also called dice?i know english isnt my first but im pretty sure its also dice

[Ashana Darkmoon]

Outlaw Rogue is capped hard but is still one of the most popular and one of the strongest classes on m+.

Go figure.

that wasn't true until recently, sub was the big rogue spec before

[Firefall]

It's tricky. Without the cap, AoE damage needs to be heavily nerfed because the game has prioritized dungeon content and AoE has gotten to a point that with no diminishing returns or caps the optimal way to clear instances is AoE nukes. Which, was *always* optimal, the difference is that now it'd be possible for basically every comp AND ALSO *MUCH* bigger pulls at the level/gear level the instance is intended for.

It feels crappy. But the gameplay that is created without it is even worse to me.

[Relapses]

It's tricky. Without the cap, AoE damage needs to be heavily nerfed because the game has prioritized dungeon content and AoE has gotten to a point that with no diminishing returns or caps the optimal way to clear instances is AoE nukes. Which, was *always* optimal, the difference is that now it'd be possible for basically every comp AND ALSO *MUCH* bigger pulls at the level/gear level the instance is intended for.

It feels crappy. But the gameplay that is created without it is even worse to me.

I think it boils down to Blizzard's recent move away from homogenization. This was likely the biggest motivating factor for them inserting target caps in the first place. They want Warriors to feel strong in 5-target cleave situations but not as strong in 40-target cleave situations. They want Destro locks to feel strong in 40-target cleave situations but feel average in single target. The problem is that these wants and desires are interpreted in a very binary manner by the playerbase (Destro is S+ Tier in M+, Warrior dogwater). I agree with some of the reasoning behind it but... it's a hard thing to get 100% correct. I think given all the variables they do a decent job but target capping was probably the worst way to achieve their goal. I like the square root capping they've added as they've begun to walk back some of their target capping so hopefully we'll see more of that in the future.

[AudibleEscalation]

It absolutely has had an impact. It's why Rogue (Outlaw specifically) up until this season was completely non-existent in higher keys.

Poor Rogues not getting invited to high keys. Except they did, there's several S3 rogues in the 4k-3.8k range, just not Outlaws. More than, let's say DPS DKs, Shamans or any other traditionally "off-meta" spec. Sure, they didn't absolutely dominate the meta, but the target cap really didn't change anything at all. You still pull big packs in M+. It just feels bad.

[ImpossibleMe]

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. I can't believe you're seriously thinking that they're target capping to save money on server processing. That's... I don't know. I think I need to log off the internet for awhile.

I agree you should if someone else's opinion about a video game makes you this emotional.