Poll: Should FFA PVP zones be restricted to WarMode?

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  1. #1

    Should FFA PVP zones be alowed in non-WM?

    Please note! Pool is reversed! It's a little bit confusing. No longer able to edit it.

    I've heard, that DF will have FFA PVP zones again, as Legion did. These zones caused too many problems for PVE players. PVE players had to avoid them, when flying to certain WQs. I don't understand such game design. What logic is behind it? Players intentionally turn their WM off. So what? They don't want to PVP. But all of a sudden they would want to participate in FFA PVP? Isn't it nonsense? Don't you think, that FFA PVP zones - are just extra annoyance for PVE players? Don't you think, that it's great example of one of bad game designs, Wow has a lot? Don't you think, that FFA PVP zones should be restricted to WM?

  2. #2
    I don't PVP very often, I don't care about this because as long as it's marked, or you have X amount of time to get out of it, you can avoid it, really not that big a deal, but then you do whine about everything, so I can see why it's an issue for you.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Phayde View Post
    I don't PVP very often, I don't care about this because as long as it's marked, or you have X amount of time to get out of it, you can avoid it, really not that big a deal, but then you do whine about everything, so I can see why it's an issue for you.
    Simply because I hate bad game design. If there is 0 logic in it, then why do it? That's, what I constantly talk about. SL has failed, cuz it has bad game design. Ok, devs realize it and will make next xpack properly. BAM! They pull another bad design instead. So what? They don't understand anything.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Simply because I hate bad game design. If there is 0 logic in it, then why do it? That's, what I constantly talk about. SL has failed, cuz it has bad game design. Ok, devs realize it and will make next xpack properly. BAM! They pull another bad design instead. So what? They don't understand anything.
    Bad game design to you, doesn't mean it's actually bad game design or that you speak for everyone. If it was forced, there might be an argument to be had, but you avoid it, problem solved, except for people who look for things to bitch about.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dread Pirate Phayde View Post
    Bad game design to you, doesn't mean it's actually bad game design or that you speak for everyone. If it was forced, there might be an argument to be had, but you avoid it, problem solved, except for people who look for things to bitch about.
    What is purpose of WarMode then? Isn't it intended to allow me to avoid PVP? Why should I avoid PVP, if my WarMode is already off?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Please note! Pool is reversed! It's a little bit confusing. No longer able to edit it.

    I've heard, that DF will have FFA PVP zones again, as Legion did. These zones caused too many problems for PVE players. PVE players had to avoid them, when flying to certain WQs. I don't understand such game design. What logic is behind it? Players intentionally turn their WM off. So what? They don't want to PVP. But all of a sudden they would want to participate in FFA PVP? Isn't it nonsense? Don't you think, that FFA PVP zones - are just extra annoyance for PVE players? Don't you think, that it's great example of one of bad game designs, Wow has a lot? Don't you think, that FFA PVP zones should be restricted to WM?
    If they are clearly marked on the map all you have to do is make a minor detour. I never once accidentally ended up in one of Legion's pvp areas. There's no point in complaining about something that is 100% optional.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    If they are clearly marked on the map all you have to do is make a minor detour. I never once accidentally ended up in one of Legion's pvp areas. There's no point in complaining about something that is 100% optional.
    Please explain reason for having PVP zones in mode, that is intended for players, who don't want to PVP. I personally don't see any other reasons, except extra annoyance for PVE players. And annoying game design - is major reason, why this game dies. So, if devs REALLY want to save it, they need to STOP using annoying game design. Just stop. It shouldn't be discussed.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Please explain reason for having PVP zones in mode, that is intended for players, who don't want to PVP. I personally don't see any other reasons, except extra annoyance for PVE players. And annoying game design - is major reason, why this game dies. So, if devs REALLY want to save it, they need to STOP using annoying game design. Just stop. It shouldn't be discussed.
    Because there are a wide variety of players for whom the game world is being built. Because people enjoyed these zones in Legion. Because if they disabled these zones for WM off then they would just be empty which would be worse game design to most people. Because what you think is annoying is so specific to you that the majority of players DO NOT CARE. I'm a PvE player, I do not do battlegrounds, arenas, or world pvp, but the existence of these zones cause me 0 problems. The way in which you view this game is so lopsided that you have posted before that you even view competition for the same quest mobs as PvP. I honestly do not understand why you play an MMO. You seem to despise any possible interaction with other players at even the most basic level. The extra annoyance you get from these zones is simply avoiding them. If you can't handle a few extra seconds of travel time so that other people can have a bit of extra content they might like then you are just being selfish.

  9. #9
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Nah, unless an open arena (like in Stranglethorn). Else, no, not outside Warmode.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    Because there are a wide variety of players for whom the game world is being built. Because people enjoyed these zones in Legion. Because if they disabled these zones for WM off then they would just be empty which would be worse game design to most people. Because what you think is annoying is so specific to you that the majority of players DO NOT CARE. I'm a PvE player, I do not do battlegrounds, arenas, or world pvp, but the existence of these zones cause me 0 problems. The way in which you view this game is so lopsided that you have posted before that you even view competition for the same quest mobs as PvP. I honestly do not understand why you play an MMO. You seem to despise any possible interaction with other players at even the most basic level. The extra annoyance you get from these zones is simply avoiding them. If you can't handle a few extra seconds of travel time so that other people can have a bit of extra content they might like then you are just being selfish.
    Empty PVP zones in PVE mode? They shouldn't even exist in PVE mode. What is FFA zone? It's zone, where faction vs factions turns into free for all. Just small flag, that tells game, that you can or can't attack certain player. But it's still the same PVP. Nothing changes. It's still about getting PVP flagged permanently. Same thing can be achieved via turning WarMode on. So WHY PVP zone is needed in PVE mode? Do you understand, that it's exactly this "Just minor annoyance for no reason - deal with it", that turns into reason, why players quit this game. Because such things stack on a top of each other.

    Devs claim, that they want to save this game. Then why they don't do anything to actually achieve this goal? They should listen to their playerbase. They shouldn't design game according to "We know better, what players want", i.e. that "We think, that all players actually love PVP and don't want to turn WM on for other reasons, like staying effective in PVE - so let's put PVP into their PVE!!!". We. Turn. WM. Off. Because. We. Don't. Want. To. PVP. Period. Why it's not clear for them?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    Empty PVP zones in PVE mode? They shouldn't even exist in PVE mode. What is FFA zone? It's zone, where faction vs factions turns into free for all. Just small flag, that tells game, that you can or can't attack certain player. But it's still the same PVP. Nothing changes. It's still about getting PVP flagged permanently. Same thing can be achieved via turning WarMode on. So WHY PVP zone is needed in PVE mode? Do you understand, that it's exactly this "Just minor annoyance for no reason - deal with it", that turns into reason, why players quit this game. Because such things stack on a top of each other.

    Devs claim, that they want to save this game. Then why they don't do anything to actually achieve this goal? They should listen to their playerbase. They shouldn't design game according to "We know better, what players want", i.e. that "We think, that all players actually love PVP and don't want to turn WM on for other reasons, like staying effective in PVE - so let's put PVP into their PVE!!!". We. Turn. WM. Off. Because. We. Don't. Want. To. PVP. Period. Why it's not clear for them?

    It is a physical part of the map. What do you want them to do for PVE? The options are either have it be empty or delete it from the map completely. Imagine how stupid Northrend would look with just the entirety of wintergrasp missing. Or just a blank nothing where Hellfire Peninsula's pvp towers are.

    As for your second point. The "Playerbase" isn't some monolith that shares an opinion. Even amongst just PvE players, what you want is different from what player A wants which is different from player B...etc. Blizz, even if they often fail, do legitimately try to make this game good for each and every type of player. But what you're asking for is so specific and asinine that there's no reason to entertain it. You want a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL area to be removed just so you don't have to acknowledge it even exists. If you quit the game because you have to avoid a small section of the map then, GOOD RIDDANCE.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    It is a physical part of the map. What do you want them to do for PVE? The options are either have it be empty or delete it from the map completely. Imagine how stupid Northrend would look with just the entirety of wintergrasp missing. Or just a blank nothing where Hellfire Peninsula's pvp towers are.
    Just DON'T make FFA zones. There are many ways to achieve the same goal. Just turn FFA mode everywhere in WM via some additional flag. We had special items back in old times, that were turning optional FFA mode on. But FFA zone - is bad game design.
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    IAs for your second point. The "Playerbase" isn't some monolith that shares an opinion. Even amongst just PvE players, what you want is different from what player A wants which is different from player B...etc. Blizz, even if they often fail, do legitimately try to make this game good for each and every type of player. But what you're asking for is so specific and asinine that there's no reason to entertain it. You want a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL area to be removed just so you don't have to acknowledge it even exists. If you quit the game because you have to avoid a small section of the map then, GOOD RIDDANCE.
    You constantly say about some players, who need it. Who are them? There should be some tradeoff here. If I suffer from avoiding something, other player should be favored some way. Who needs FFA zone in PVE mode? M? Or may be it's just for PVPers only? But they're all in WM. So, this problem happens because Blizzard can't implement something for PVP without breaking PVE? They should learn to do it.

    It's all about options. WM - is that exact option. That's, why we hate Blizzard. Because they violate their own rules. For example they make "no dismount" item only to add dismounting mobs later. Same here. They implement explicit PVP/PVE division only to force PVP into PVE then.

  13. #13
    Where did you get this information?

    FFA = Free for All ?

    Im confused!

  14. #14
    Just don't go there.

    Problem solved.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by WowIsDead64 View Post
    You constantly say about some players, who need it. Who are them? There should be some tradeoff here. If I suffer from avoiding something, other player should be favored some way. Who needs FFA zone in PVE mode? M? Or may be it's just for PVPers only? But they're all in WM. So, this problem happens because Blizzard can't implement something for PVP without breaking PVE? They should learn to do it.
    The tradeoff is that you lose 30 secs of travel time avoiding the area and some PvP players get to enjoy an outdoor ffa zone, and maybe a few PvE players might enjoy it as well. Many of the people who turn wm off don't mind a little bit of PvP they just don't wanna be ganked while doing their dailies.

    You are not forced to participate. It is completely optional. If you do not like it, don't do it.

    I haven't seen this level of selfishness and entitlement since I last watched Willy Wonka.

  16. #16
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    For the most part I agree with this although I don't consider it bad game design per se. It's a design that I may not care for but I'm not arrogant enough to say that everything I dislike in the game is "bad design."

    That said, this is one reason why war mode exists and this seems to be yet another example of developers attempting to get people to play in a mode they don't like. I don't mind going around them to avoid them but if you think about it that's BS as well since they say they are all about improving QOL in the game. That's a small step backward for no good reason. It's not a big deal but it's a sign that nothing much has changed either that they still resort to stuff like this.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  17. #17
    No I think they should do more of these ffa pvp zones and remove Warmode.

    Warmode is bad design, it splits up the playerbase needlessly. Open pvp is best when confined to specific areas.

  18. #18
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    No I think they should do more of these ffa pvp zones and remove Warmode.

    Warmode is bad design, it splits up the playerbase needlessly. Open pvp is best when confined to specific areas.
    Confining PVP to specific areas also splits up the playerbase. I'm not saying there shouldn't be areas like this (although they aren't anything I have any interest in) but splitting up players is what either option does.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Confining PVP to specific areas also splits up the playerbase. I'm not saying there shouldn't be areas like this (although they aren't anything I have any interest in) but splitting up players is what either option does.
    No it doesn't. Warmode puts you in different phases, pvp specific areas do not.

  20. #20
    Honestly OP, you just need to quit the damn game and go play something else, all you do is bitch about how hard the game is, that it isn't geared towards your style of play, that it's bad game design because of it. The FFA zones in Legion had no impact on my game play, to the point that I forgot they existed, unless I wandered into one, and this will no doubt be hard to understand, I just rode back out of.

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