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  1. #1

    Really dislike covenant power integration

    Idk if there's already a thread on just this topic but I really dislike the idea of permanently having covenant abilities baked into our talent tree toolkits.

    NOT because they're bad, but because visually and flavor text wise they don't make any sense.

    For instance I really like shifting power mechanically and visually it looks cool, but why on earth is a mage, a master of the arcane, conjuring spirits and druid magic as part of the penultimate abilities?

    Idk it just doesn't sit with me. I'm sure someone can devil's advocate support for this somehow but I will never feel comfortable with it or feel it fits.

  2. #2
    Epic! AngerFork's Avatar
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    I consider it part of the storyline after we went through the whole covenant setup. We bound ourselves not only to a covenant but also to several beings associated with the Shadowlands. We've used a forge to further enhance those bonds. Even though we will be leaving the Shadowlands & the portals may close (debatable at this point), it's not like we suddenly are no longer bound to those same beings. Such a bond would absolutely change someone, short term or not.

    As for why your Mage is conjuring spirits & druidic magic, it's that same soulbind. That same link to the citizens of Ardenweald isn't broken, so naturally their spirits & influence would still be with you. It might be faded, especially with the barrier resealed...but it would likely still be there. Your Mage has felt that power & has that link, so they can still use part of the magic of Ardenweald to further enhance their other abilities.

  3. #3
    It's the same as Legion Artifact Weapon traits. The devs liked the functionality of some of the Covenant abilities/traits so now they're baseline.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    It's the same as Legion Artifact Weapon traits. The devs liked the functionality of some of the Covenant abilities/traits so now they're baseline.
    I'm fine with the functionality but strongly wish they didn't dictate in the flavor text that I'm basically a shaman now.

  5. #5
    Pit Lord Dristereau's Avatar
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    Not even slightly surprised they did this. It was something I expected as a new row of talents from the start of Shadowlands (not the new system) because they're high flavour and lots of cool things. I couldn't see a world where things like Convoke, Abom Limb and Mindgames along with others were removed after one expansion.

    Personally no issues with it. I did wonder if they'd reword/rename some abilities like Shifting Power and Spear of Bastion similar to Condemn (Punish it might be called now?).
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  6. #6
    It's a neat way to re-use their visuals. Would be a waste to just remove them alltogether/replace the SFX

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Magistrate View Post
    I honestly did not expect literally every person on the internet to categorically disagree with me. Wow.

    Nvm in this topic I guess thanks guys
    You get 4 civil, rational replies and your response is hyperbolic 'omg every1 disagrees'. If you're not even capable of having a discussion, why bother with a topic?

  8. #8
    I agree, made a comment about it on one of the blue feedback threads after the first Druid trees dropped and they still had Adaptive Swarm. I know it kind of makes sense for Druids that played SL, but for anyone leveling up from 1 they probably won't even touch SL and they'll end up randomly learning how to use shadow magic as a Druid lol. The abilities themselves are fine, I just wish they felt more connected to the class flavor wise. Like, Adaptive Swarm could take the old Insect Swarm name/animations and do nature damage while keeping everything else about it the same. Stuff like Abom Limb, Convoke, & Mindgames already thematically fit fine but others just don't make much sense imo.

    I think they either just don't have time or don't feel like making the time it would take to flavor update everything. It's not the biggest deal in the world, but hopefully they can get to it eventually in a smaller patch or something.
    "A wise king never seeks war, but is always prepared for it. A strong king never gives into fear, but provides courage and strength to his subjects. For the truest victory, is stirring the hearts of your people."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Magistrate View Post
    For instance I really like shifting power mechanically and visually it looks cool, but why on earth is a mage, a master of the arcane, conjuring spirits and druid magic as part of the penultimate abilities?
    It's a blue circle of energy. What does it necessarily have to do with spirits and druid magic? :O

    It's not like you are throwing animals around or anything! Even the tooltip ust says "draw power from the ground beneath" and we know there are ley lines and stuff.

  10. #10
    I actually agree. They were obviously going to add them as class spells, but I thought they would have decency to make them themed for the classes(changing the names and visuals).
    It's a sad state of affairs if they don't have the dev time to re-skin a handful of spells.

  11. #11
    I agree, they should change the visuals on them to be more in line with the overall class theme. I never liked the often thematically conflicting shadowlands ability visuals being forced on most of my classes.

  12. #12
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magistrate View Post
    Idk if there's already a thread on just this topic but I really dislike the idea of permanently having covenant abilities baked into our talent tree toolkits.

    NOT because they're bad, but because visually and flavor text wise they don't make any sense.

    For instance I really like shifting power mechanically and visually it looks cool, but why on earth is a mage, a master of the arcane, conjuring spirits and druid magic as part of the penultimate abilities?

    Idk it just doesn't sit with me. I'm sure someone can devil's advocate support for this somehow but I will never feel comfortable with it or feel it fits.
    Some of the abilities make sense and the thematics sync up pretty well, like Death Knights having access to Abomination Limb and its corresponding Necrolord aesthetics. Shifting Power is kind of a weird one for Mages, though, I tend to agree - although I wouldn't really say it is either "Druid magic" or conjuring spirits insofar as that goes. I think it would be more appropriate if the spell effect was more obviously Arcane in nature as opposed to having the Night Fae signature, as it were. More of the purple/white color scheme and less naturalistic imagery.
    WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN?. - Terry Pratchett, Reaper Man

  13. #13
    My problem is that leaving some Covenant choices out of the trees invalidates the choices we made as a player. For instance, I selected Venthyr on my Paladin, but that choice is not going to carry over. Regardless of your opinion on the Covenant system, having a choice we made become null and void is never fun to experience.

    Another really jarring addition to the talent trees are that some classes have to spend 2 ranks to get the full value of their Covenant ability, while others have to only spend 1 point. An example of this is DK's only needing to spend 1 point to unlock Abomination Limb's full value, while Paladin's need to invest 2 ranks to get the secondary effect of Divine Toll's Divine Resonance. I understand this could for potential balancing reasons, but it definitely feels a bit unfair for the specs that have to reserve even more points to regain the playstyle/abilities they currently have.

    A potential fix for this invalidation would be to include every Covenant ability in the bottom-tier of the spec tree in an easily accessible area, and as a 4-way branching node with all secondary effects of the ability included as part of the node (i.e Divine Toll would have Divine Resonance baked into it). This would allow our choices to be recognized and continued, and would offer more diverse gameplay options for those who prefer to keep the current Covenant ability they are familiar with.
    Last edited by Celvira; 2022-08-16 at 08:01 PM.
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  14. #14
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    I'm annoyed that Hunters don't have Wild Spirits anymore. however, this has an upside as now there won't be examples of me dropping wild spirits on the fuckin ceiling any more

  15. #15
    I don't mind the visuals too much but shifting power has to go.

    Literally a damage loss for frost on single target and desyncs your cd's on arcane, what a joke.

  16. #16
    I agree, the visuals should fit the classes. And mostly, they don't.

    Which sucks.

  17. #17
    The Insane Feali's Avatar
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    What bugs me is that it is also very inconsistent. Because why all of a sudden can my character use multiple covenant abilities but couldn't before? Also, I really don't like throwing literal bone dust at my enemies as a monk, it doesn't fit the fantasy of the class even in the slightest.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    It's the same as Legion Artifact Weapon traits. The devs liked the functionality of some of the Covenant abilities/traits so now they're baseline.
    Difference between this and artifact abilities are primarily the visuals.

    Artifact abilities were largely themed for their intended classes, but despite covenant abilities being class specific, all the visual effects are entirely based on their covenant.

    Take shamans for instance. All their abilities are based around elemental magic. Fire, water, nature, earth.

    But now they're permanently getting access to an ability that visually looks like necrotic anima.

    There's little visual semblance to the rest of the shaman theme/kit.

    And as for people saying the story of Shadowlands justifies this, the default leveling experience for new players in Dragonflight will skip Shadowlands entirely.

    It's entirely possible and indeed rather likely that new players never even join a covenant and learn how the abilities were originally obtained.

    I'm fine with Blizzard reusing the covenant abilities that provided interesting gameplay in the new talent trees, but those abilities should really receive a visual overhaul to better fit the class.
    Last edited by Unlimited Power; 2022-08-17 at 01:13 PM.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Feali View Post
    Also, I really don't like throwing literal bone dust at my enemies as a monk, it doesn't fit the fantasy of the class even in the slightest.
    Its a brew though, isn't it? Yeah a bit of a weird brew but that's kind of how it goes. Seems fine to me.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post

    I'm fine with Blizzard reusing the covenant abilities that provided interesting gameplay in the new talent trees, but those abilities should really receive a visual overhaul to better fit the class.
    I'd love if Blizz gave us glyphs for the covenant abilities that allows us to preserve their gameplay aspects, but with the freedom to tailor them to the general class fantasy, alternate covenant color-schemes, ect.

    Its an incredibly simple fix, which could even attempt to (sort of) address my prior complaint in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gungus View Post

    You think the girl born with eight limbs is now a spider?

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