Really dislike covenant power integration

[Rockefellah]

I'm fine with the functionality but strongly wish they didn't dictate in the flavor text that I'm basically a shaman now.

Care to explain with an example?

[Berkilak]

Wotlk
Cataclysm
Mop
Wod
Legion
BFA
Shadowlands
Dragonflight


Literally every expansion you are noted as being one of the champions of azeroth, even in wotlk they reference this, hell even a bit in tbc, the trial of the crusade dungeon boss literally summons bosses from your memeory of famous bosses you killed in the past, cause you are the champion of azeroth and did kill these bosses.

Where is this stated? Overtly? Without your personal interpretation?

[Humek]

I can't agree more. I'm baffled by the idea of every fucking cat using convoke from now on. And covenant abilities in general.

I really dislike it.

[Kumorii]

Agree somewhat. Think they should've just reworded them and made new spell-effects instead. That way you get to keep it, but it's more in-tune with the class itself.

Shifting power for fire mage just looks off to me visually.

[FelPlague]

Where is this stated? Overtly? Without your personal interpretation?

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arg...ssor_Paletress
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Arg...ress_(tactics)
i mean i literally listed one of them specific, like holy fuck my dude, how many times do i need to say it, they have been crediting us the players with killing enemies since wotlk, and even tbc and vanilla.

"Paletress also features as an encounter in the Trial of the Champion, where she seeks to help adventurers overcome their fears through forcing them to defeat the memories of some of their greatest adversaries."

"Memory of the Past — Summons one of the following memories: Algalon the Observer, Archimonde, Chromaggus, Cyanigosa, Priestess Delrissa, Eck the Ferocious, Entropius, Gruul the Dragonkiller, Hakkar the Soulflayer, Heigan the Unclean, Herod, Hogger, Ignis the Furnace Master, Illidan Stormrage, Ingvar the Plunderer, Warlord Kalithresh, Lucifron, Prince Malchezaar, Mutanus the Devourer, Onyxia, Prince Thunderaan, Edwin VanCleef, Lady Vashj, Vek'nilash, General Vezax."

[Berkilak]

That's a single instance, and I'm more inclined to think of that as a "rule of cool" meta addition rather than actual canon lore. Like on the same level as that Murloc Demon Hunter in Stormheim. Sure, it exists, but it's more of a nod to the community than actual canon.

By and large, they tend to bend over backwards to not acknowledge any kind of player continuity outside of the vaguest, "You are an entity that I acknowledge exists on the same planet as me, usually."

[Feril]

I've been thinking about this a bit.

I wish they'd change graphics and names to make them fit properly on the class.

For example, Serrated Bone Spike should become Serrated Throwing Knife or something like that, with a proper rogueish graphic. Greenish "magic" and bones have no place on the rogue arsenal. Same for Echoing Reprimand and its un-rogueish name and visuals, and Sepsis can keep the name but lose any blue wispy magic.

Keeping them as is is lazy. At least Artifact abilities were class appropriate for the most part, both thematically and visually.

And THEN create glyphs to put the Covenant visual back, but the default should be something that the class would do without external forces.

[Schmilblick]

Personally I don't care, as long as they are fun and balanced.

[unfunnymeme]

When you play through Bastion, the quest that involves fighting memories assumes (by random spawn) that your character has participated in multiple expansions.

That quest only pulls from expansions you've actually participated in. If you're a fresh new character that's only leveled up through BFA and went straight into SL, it only shows you fighting Maw forces, the Horde, and the Scourge invasion. The Maw forces are the only one that's a constant if you've done other stuff, the other two seem to pull randomly from Cata to Legion.
As for mages using these kinds of powers and going to the Shadowlands, that's untrue as of BFA and SL. SL tries to sell you the idea in the opening that Oribos has never seen a living mortal, and other realms make a big deal out of it too. In BFA, everybody freaks out about the power Sylvanas used, both Jaina and Thalyssra mention not being able to sense it at all. While this was likely just Blizzard trying to create mystery, it does make it canonical that Anima is 100% foreign and unknown to even a 10k+ year old master practitioner. Personally, I believe the Nathria raid may have tried to show Anima is either the source of mana or is just what the SL call mana(you replenish Renathal's mana with Anima), but until something is outright said to de-canonize Jaina and Thalyssra's confusion, then no, mages do NOT have experience with Anima.

[Hctaz]

Where is this stated? Overtly? Without your personal interpretation?

As unfortunate as it might be, the game does consider every player character to be a great champion who has been around since Vanilla for some reason.

Even the ones who literally couldn't have existed before Vanilla WoW.

[Unlimited Power]

As unfortunate as it might be, the game does consider every player character to be a great champion who has been around since Vanilla for some reason.

Even the ones who literally couldn't have existed before Vanilla WoW.

I think they're partially trying to do away with that mentality in DF.

The PC is not going to the Dragon Isles as some sort of representative or champion of their faction.

You're just participating in an expedition to the isles.

Blizzard have said that the PC will obviously never go back to just being an anonymous adventurer again on account of the story thus far.

But they're deliberately trying to deemphasize the importance of the PC in the context of the story, at least for DF.

[Hitei]

That quest only pulls from expansions you've actually participated in. If you're a fresh new character that's only leveled up through BFA and went straight into SL, it only shows you fighting Maw forces, the Horde, and the Scourge invasion. The Maw forces are the only one that's a constant if you've done other stuff, the other two seem to pull randomly from Cata to Legion.

But you're just proving my point. If you're a brand new account that has only leveled up through BfA and went straight into SL, then you, the player, have never even encountered the Scourge. You fought ogres, then fought stuff on KT/Zandalar, then went back to Stormwind and immediately into the Maw. Even in this situation the game assumes canonical participation in an event that you didn't participate it. The only group this logic actually works for is the insignificantly tiny group of brand new players who started playing the game in the month leading up to SL and so also participated in the scourge invasions.

As for mages using these kinds of powers and going to the Shadowlands, that's untrue as of BFA and SL. SL tries to sell you the idea in the opening that Oribos has never seen a living mortal, and other realms make a big deal out of it too. In BFA, everybody freaks out about the power Sylvanas used, both Jaina and Thalyssra mention not being able to sense it at all. While this was likely just Blizzard trying to create mystery, it does make it canonical that Anima is 100% foreign and unknown to even a 10k+ year old master practitioner. Personally, I believe the Nathria raid may have tried to show Anima is either the source of mana or is just what the SL call mana(you replenish Renathal's mana with Anima), but until something is outright said to de-canonize Jaina and Thalyssra's confusion, then no, mages do NOT have experience with Anima.

Everyone freaks out about the power Sylvanas uses because they have no idea what they're looking at. No one has encountered pure domination magic before in its undiluted form--especially not from Sylvanas who usually isn't capable of the type and degree of output she shows in the duel with Saurfang. But everyone on Azeroth actually knows about it, because it's the exact same magic that Frostmourne and the Lich King's armor are built out of, and so also the same necromantic magic that powers the entire Scourge. It's the same magic that every DK walks around holding in the form of their runeblade.

Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: The runes on Frostmourne were a type of magic not seen on Azeroth before the Lich King. But that same power is woven into the very fabric of the Maw... and Torghast.

It is also the same magic that powers basic "Death"/necromantic-type necromancy. Which is a magical school born out of Malxdraxxus and anima usage. Just because mortals (or even Elves) didn't correctly understand the fundamental forces being called on doesn't change what those forces are. Humans (on Earth) have used microbial-based biological warfare methods for some ~3500 years, but only figured out ~350 years ago that what made that work (and caused most diseases in general) was microorganisms.

"Anima" as a conceptual identity for the magic is what is new, neither anima-based magic (domination and necromantic magic) nor general principle of spirit/soul-based magic (see: Fel) are new to the mortals of Azeroth. All this is, is knowledge of a specific lifeforce/anima/spirit/energy redirection technique being learned from the Night Fae and then spread to other mages.

[Berkilak]

But you're just proving my point. If you're a brand new account that has only leveled up through BfA and went straight into SL, then you, the player, have never even encountered the Scourge. You fought ogres, then fought stuff on KT/Zandalar, then went back to Stormwind and immediately into the Maw. Even in this situation the game assumes canonical participation in an event that you didn't participate it. The only group this logic actually works for is the insignificantly tiny group of brand new players who started playing the game in the month leading up to SL and so also participated in the scourge invasions.

It's not proving your point. It's displaying Blizzard's clear intent, with a dash of oversight on their part. The only times they reference past events that your character did not participate in is because either: (a) the tech wasn't there yet, but they still wanted to have some fun meta references for long-time players, or (b) oversight on their part. It is crystal clear that they only want past events your character has actively participated in to be referenced.

[Hitei]

It's not proving your point. It's displaying Blizzard's clear intent, with a dash of oversight on their part. The only times they reference past events that your character did not participate in is because either: (a) the tech wasn't there yet, but they still wanted to have some fun meta references for long-time players, or (b) oversight on their part. It is crystal clear that they only want past events your character has actively participated in to be referenced.

You are literally quoting a situation which is neither a tech issue, nor a fun meta reference, nor an oversight (because it's supposedly deliberately set up with the idea that players have not necessarily played all expansions) and still decides to assume participation in some events.

This entire post reeks of desperate goalpost moving.
"They don't assume participation in events, it's just oversight!"
"U-unless they just can be bothered to workaround a tech issue"
"...o-or they want to have a reference"
Do you know what that means, ace? It means they sometimes knowingly assume participation in events. Frequently enough that you came up for three different situational excuses for why they've done it various times. Why they do it is irrelevant--I mean, you're wrong, as above, there are situations that aren't tech, or fun reference, or oversight related--but the reason its being done is irrelevant, because they do it.

At this point you're so far past the initial argument of "Mages having the spell doesn't make sense because I made up demonstrably wrong rules for how the universe works!" you're in a totally different realm, just pursuing some tangential line in the hopes that you might find some tiny, unrelated angle from which you can pretend you were 'right'. Because again, even though you've been dancing around it every single post: it doesn't even fucking matter if mages went to the Shadowlands or not, because they can easily just hear of the method secondhand from other mages who did, and employ it in their own spell casting.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

i totally disagree with your thread. Cause if the opposite would have happened and they totally removed Covenant abilities, we would have threads about how they removed our powers again and i really liked so and so ability.

What they did is the best way to implement them by making it Optional within your talent tables. You don't have to take them if you don't want them fella.

[Berkilak]

Maybe re-examine your stance if you find yourself shifting entirely to semantic arguments.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

It's a blue circle of energy. What does it necessarily have to do with spirits and druid magic? :O

It's not like you are throwing animals around or anything! Even the tooltip ust says "draw power from the ground beneath" and we know there are ley lines and stuff.

it has the covenant sigils on them

[ihate2beapessimist]

Idk if there's already a thread on just this topic but I really dislike the idea of permanently having covenant abilities baked into our talent tree toolkits.

NOT because they're bad, but because visually and flavor text wise they don't make any sense.

For instance I really like shifting power mechanically and visually it looks cool, but why on earth is a mage, a master of the arcane, conjuring spirits and druid magic as part of the penultimate abilities?

Idk it just doesn't sit with me. I'm sure someone can devil's advocate support for this somehow but I will never feel comfortable with it or feel it fits.

SL just allowed the devs and excuse to add a bunch of new abilities to the game. Then with the data collected they determined which were flops or hot.

Hot talents get to stay.