[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Aydinx2]

2) There was a lot I liked about the finale - It was interesting to do a meta-commentary on Marvel and how they shouldn't always have to build up to some big action finale for resolution... BUT... they'd spent the whole rest of the series building up to a big action finale. It was the writing equivalent of getting blue balls - You build all these threads up and all this foreshadowing all season and then just instantly end it all, giving little resolution or closure.

This. Getting a cookie-cutter Marvel finale would've been better than a commentary about Marvel finale's.
We already know the faults that Marvel has. The audience knows it before they do. We don't need to sacrifice a show to point them out.

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There are people who want the MCU or comic book movies in general just to adapt the comics 1 for 1. Which can't be done.

It can, if you don't care about box office results.
The DC movies that did the best are probably the least comic-book accurate and most formulaic.

[Darththeo]

It can, if you don't care about box office results.
The DC movies that did the best are probably the least comic-book accurate and most formulaic.

Not really, there are always things that cannot be adapted or have to be changed.

Even works where the original creator is involved on a creative level fail to be 1:1. They can be close, but never 1:1.

[Syegfryed]

There are people who want the MCU or comic book movies in general just to adapt the comics 1 for 1. Which can't be done.

Thats not true at all, no one wants 1 for 1, and no one advocate for it, but some resemblance to the original is necessary when you are adapting.

In this case, they changed a lot, from she getting her powers(Bruce can't save her, she need to save him) to her personality, which im pretty sure was more reserved, and only when she hulk out she becomes more with the she-hulk personality, but she is the same in both forms.

[paxen]

I went in expecting a She-Hulk series, a She-Hulk series is exactly what I got. People suggesting the writers/whoever read the comics (they clearly actually did) maybe don't know the comics as well as they think. She-Hulk herself was incredibly faithful to the character. The series itself literally took from the comics for her character (specifically Dan Slott's run). Did it have problems as a series? Sure. Was it bad/unfaithful to the character/comics? lol no.

Precisely this. Honestly, the most it deviated from the comics was with Deadpool-style fourth wall breaks, instead of going full on yell-at-the-writers like they did in the finale. The last episode was the one that was the most faithful to the comics.

Overall I think the show as overall merely ok. The humor was hit and miss, and they really should have tried to get more serious about the legal stuff instead of using it as a backdrop for a more generic career woman story. For me, ep 1 was fine, 2-5 were ok, I couldn't stand ep 6 at all - but ep 7-9 is honestly amongst my favorite Marvel TV on Disney+. All shows pre-2022 struggled with endings, but I think She-hulk nailed it.

[Biomega]

All shows pre-2022 struggled with endings, but I think She-hulk nailed it.

Yeah, I was surprised to see some of the negative reactions to the finale - I thought it was the best part about the show, by far. Sure it was a bit of a low-hanging fruit with all the self-deprecating humor, but it was very on-brand for the character, and the execution seemed just fine to me.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

In this case, they changed a lot, from she getting her powers(Bruce can't save her, she need to save him)

that doesn't change how she got her powers. It only changes the circumstances of how she got her powers. She still gets her powers from Bruce's blood. As far as changing her origin from the comics...that's much less extreme than Drax or Peter Quill. But you don't care about those changes.

The only reason you have a problem with this change is because, as you said, she saves him instead of the other way around. Isn't it awful when a woman saves a man?

to her personality, which im pretty sure was more reserved,

You kind of tip your hand when you say "pretty sure"...that indicates that you don't actually know.

and only when she hulk out she becomes more with the she-hulk personality, but she is the same in both forms.

There is no "She-Hulk" personality. She doesn't have Disassociative Identity Disorder like her cousin does. Is she more confident as a Hulk? Sure...wouldn't you be?

[Syegfryed]

that doesn't change how she got her powers. It only changes the circumstances of how she got her powers. She still gets her powers from Bruce's blood. As far as changing her origin from the comics...

They literally changed everything, appart from "she get his blood", that is not rly an good argument to say they don't change.

she ws hit by the mafia, got shot, was dying, Bruce gave her a blood transfusion to save her life, that seems much more like a compelling origin story, that could actually be tied into the show, as she gets back tot he people who shot her, discover the secret, and do the jokes along with it. Show could hve an actual plot, maybe even tie with kingpin? who know, but that require effort.

that's much less extreme than Drax or Peter Quill. But you don't care about those changes.

I don't even care about those fuckers though? never liked guardians of the galaxy, don't like the movie appart from Gamora and her sister.

The only reason you have a problem with this change is because, as you said, she saves him instead of the other way around. Isn't it awful when a woman saves a man?

No, its awful when man saves woman, they need no man.

Like, we don't need to beat around the bush here, the show did plenty of jabs about that, and some of then worked well, others were too on the nose.

You kind of tip your hand when you say "pretty sure"...that indicates that you don't actually know.

You tell me then, are the human and the hulk person the same personality?

im not talking about the disorder, i'm talking bout she being more open and more confident while in she hulk, acting up on her sexuality more, and she was more reserved, like a real alter ego.

[paxen]

There is no "She-Hulk" personality. She doesn't have Disassociative Identity Disorder like her cousin does. Is she more confident as a Hulk? Sure...wouldn't you be?

There's no split personality or DID, but jennifer still acts differently when she's large and green - a lot more confident.

The first season is a lot about how mousy, awkward Jen changes into the brash She-hulk we know (as is also straight from the comics).

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

They literally changed everything, appart from "she get his blood", that is not rly an good argument to say they don't change.

I said it's a relatively minor change compared to much more extreme changes made to other charcters. Like Drax.

Arthur douglas was a human real-estate agent and part-time jazz musician. When driving one night with his daughter...he is unfortunate enough to witness an alien spacecraft which was piloted by Thanos. Thanos didn't want to be witnessed and reported...so he destroys the vehicle with Arthur and his daughter still inside. Thanos father was surveiling his son and witnessed the destruction. He decides that he's observed enough and makes the decision that Thanos needs to be stopped. With the help of his own father, he creates a new body, imbues it with super powers, and puts the spirit of Arthur Douglas inside of it. He gives his creation a new name: Drax the Destroyer.

In the MCU...Drax is just an alien.

Yet, you don't care about this major change to the origin of the character.

Bruce gave her a blood transfusion to save her life

Big problem here is that, in the MCU it has already been established that Bruce's blood is lethal. He wouldn't give her a blood transfusion.

Show could hve an actual plot, maybe even tie with kingpin?

And now you want to tie the Kingpin into her origin? I thought you didn't want to make changes?

I don't even care about those fuckers though? never liked guardians of the galaxy, don't like the movie appart from Gamora and her sister.

Do you care about She-Hulk? Because you sure as fuck don't know anything at all about the character.

No, its awful when man saves woman, they need no man.

It's fine when men save women...it happens all the time in the movies. It also happens that sometimes the women can save men.

You tell me then, are the human and the hulk person the same personality?

Yes, they are exactly the same person.

im not talking about the disorder, i'm talking bout she being more open and more confident while in she hulk, acting up on her sexuality more, and she was more reserved, like a real alter ego.

Yes, in the comics she is the same person. Again, she's more confident in her Hulk form...but anyone would be. Being Super strong and nigh-invulnerable is going to have that effect.

[Ivanstone]

They literally changed everything, appart from "she get his blood", that is not rly an good argument to say they don't change.

she ws hit by the mafia, got shot, was dying, Bruce gave her a blood transfusion to save her life, that seems much more like a compelling origin story, that could actually be tied into the show, as she gets back tot he people who shot her, discover the secret, and do the jokes along with it. Show could hve an actual plot, maybe even tie with kingpin? who know, but that require effort.

The original Savage comic were just Daredevil stories. Can't beat 'em in the court room? Go beat 'em up at night. No wonder it only lasted 25 issues.

She's spent the majority of her time in comics as we saw in the show. Tall, green and glamorous. Also perfectly willing to have a nice chat with the fans and a not so nice chat with editorial and creative.

There are only two things that I felt were missing:
1 - Wyatt Wingfoot. I don't think there was a good place to insert him but I would've like to see him anyways.
2 - Launching a lawsuit against Deadpool for stealing her schtick.

[Darththeo]

Thats not true at all, no one wants 1 for 1, and no one advocate for it, but some resemblance to the original is necessary when you are adapting.

In this case, they changed a lot, from she getting her powers(Bruce can't save her, she need to save him) to her personality, which im pretty sure was more reserved, and only when she hulk out she becomes more with the she-hulk personality, but she is the same in both forms.

Go back in this topic and look at posts from ThatsOurEric.

There are people who advocate it, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Syegfryed]

I said it's a relatively minor change compared to much more extreme changes made to other charcters. Like Drax.

How is a relatively minor change??? everything but a minor thing was the same

The only bit they kept was "she get his blood".

Yet, you don't care about this major change to the origin of the character.

I don't care about the character period. Not before, not now. make a thread about him, and i would still support a more faithful approach than what we got, since i don't like at all, maybe i would like more if he was close to his comics version

Using other character that they massively change doesn't change the fact that they also changed a lot from the she-hulk, straight up red hearing.

Big problem here is that, in the MCU it has already been established that Bruce's blood is lethal. He wouldn't give her a blood transfusion.

And the show straight up points how it is not, since she got his blood on her and didn't die lol. So, not an argument.

And now you want to tie the Kingpin into her origin? I thought you didn't want to make changes?

I said to tie him with the mafia that shot her. When she is searching about the truth about the attempt to kill her she finds out it was Kingpin

You keep using the fallacy that "we don't want changes", but its not true at all, adding kingping in the story would not change much her origins and would tie in the story well with hawkeye, even with daredevil, some changes are good and enhance the plot, something the show barely had.

Marvel had much more freedom to do a lot of changes using the Multiverse as excuse, you still can do a more faithful approach or, at least, keep the same theme. In this case, i don't see a reason to change.

Do you care about She-Hulk? Because you sure as fuck don't know anything at all about the character.

I could, if the show was decent, since hulk is a joke and pretty much dead, i was looking for it. The participations of her in other comics that i read were all right for me to like the character

And no, Jennifer Walters and She hulk ar not "the exact same person", if you literally say she is more confident and free in one form.

Yes, in the comics she is the same person. Again, she's more confident in her Hulk form...but anyone would be. Being Super strong and nigh-invulnerable is going to have that effect.

So you DO agree there is a difference, that the show didn't rly portray very well, when she is normal or she hulk. ok

[Endus]

Using other character that they massively change doesn't change the fact that they also changed a lot from the she-hulk, straight up red hearing.

You've made no case whatsoever that changing an origin somewhat is "bad", in the first place. That's not a true statement. There's plenty of good reasons to do so.

And the show straight up points how it is not, since she got his blood on her and didn't die lol. So, not an argument.

This was debunked in literally the first episode, and it's increasingly clear you haven't actually watched it. Bruce's blood is lethal. To anyone who doesn't carry the rare recessive gene that lets them rapidly metabolize gamma. That he and Jen share, as close blood relatives. And a few others would, out there among the billions of people on the planet. Bruce's genetics are special, but not unique.

I said to tie him with the mafia that shot her. When she is searching about the truth about the attempt to kill her she finds out it was Kingpin

Baffling that you'd be pushing for these changes to her comics origin while complaining about other changes, on the basis that "all change is automatically bad".

You keep using the fallacy that "we don't want changes", but its not true at all, adding kingping in the story would not change much her origins and would tie in the story well with hawkeye, even with daredevil, some changes are good and enhance the plot, something the show barely had.

False. Ties in with Daredevil REALLY directly, and the "plot" was written to serve the metanarrative that was the actual plot, which a lot of you seem to not "get". The "plot" is silly and has holes? That's literally the point of the actual plot.

Marvel had much more freedom to do a lot of changes using the Multiverse as excuse, you still can do a more faithful approach or, at least, keep the same theme. In this case, i don't see a reason to change.

Given that the MCU is not the comics universe, there's either no reason to bring the Multiverse in to explain anything, or the fact that this is an alternate universe in the Multiverse already explains everything, and you can take your pick of those two.

I could, if the show was decent, since hulk is a joke and pretty much dead

What? No he's not.

And no, Jennifer Walters and She hulk ar not "the exact same person", if you literally say she is more confident and free in one form.

The same way some people get more confident when they put on a snappy suit or a uniform. That doesn't mean they're juggling multiple personalities. This is a really weird argument that the show explicitly explained was untrue in Episode 1. You're making it up and the show directly contradicts the claim. Repeatedly.

[Syegfryed]

She's spent the majority of her time in comics as we saw in the show. Tall, green and glamorous. Also perfectly willing to have a nice chat with the fans and a not so nice chat with editorial and creative.

See, it didn't feel to me that way, I don't think she spend too much time in her hulk form, either

Feels to me there was a good show somewhere, but if the highlight is Daredevil showing up and Wong i think something went wrong, as the first episodes were good but the quality just reach rock bottom every week.

Feels to me it was rushed(like some late marvel releases) some weird CGI, the plot was not good, the jokes didn't land well, like who the fuck cares about megan the horse, should go with something the rest of the world know about it, like Deadpool did.

I still think was better than hawkeye, but sheesh, i do hope they put some more work with other people for season 2.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

How is a relatively minor change??? everything but a minor thing was the same

The only bit they kept was "she get his blood".

It's the only part that matters.

I don't care about the character period. Not before, not now. make a thread about him, and i would still support a more faithful approach than what we got, since i don't like at all, maybe i would like more if he was close to his comics version

But do you care about She-Hulk?

Using other character that they massively change doesn't change the fact that they also changed a lot from the she-hulk, straight up red hearing.

It's a domino effect.

And the show straight up points how it is not, since she got his blood on her and didn't die lol. So, not an argument.

It is...because, to the best of his knowledge, he knew that his blood was fatal to normal people. The fact that it didn't kill her is explained in the comics as them both having a rare gene. He wouldn't just give his cousin a death sentence.

I said to tie him with the mafia that shot her. When she is searching about the truth about the attempt to kill her she finds out it was Kingpin

That's a major change to the origin.

You keep using the fallacy that "we don't want changes", but its not true at all, adding kingping in the story would not change much her origins and would tie in the story well with hawkeye, even with daredevil, some changes are good and enhance the plot, something the show barely had.

By the same reasoning...her saving Bruce doesn't change her origins either. The mobhit is not an important part of her character... it just sets up the circumstances.

Marvel had much more freedom to do a lot of changes using the Multiverse as excuse, you still can do a more faithful approach or, at least, keep the same theme. In this case, i don't see a reason to change.

If they were making She-Hulk in a different part of the multiverse... you might have a point. She's in the same universe that the MCU is based in...the series is stuck

I could, if the show was decent, since hulk is a joke and pretty much dead, i was looking for it. The participations of her in other comics that i read were all right for me to like the character

And no, Jennifer Walters and She hulk ar not "the exact same person", if you literally say she is more confident and free in one form.

They are the exact same person. A person can be more or less confident depending on the circumstances. It doesn't change who they are.

So you DO agree there is a difference, that the show didn't rly portray very well, when she is normal or she hulk. ok

I don't agree that her personality is different. Being a more confident version of yourself is not changing your personality.

[Syegfryed]

You've made no case whatsoever that changing an origin somewhat is "bad", in the first place. That's not a true statement. There's plenty of good reasons to do so.

Ok, first i didn't said it was good or bad, i said it was a change in the origin, being good or bad is a matter of prefference.

I think if they went with the origin from the mafia thing would make a better show and they could have worked season 1 around it.

This was debunked in literally the first episode, and it's increasingly clear you haven't actually watched it. Bruce's blood is lethal. To anyone who doesn't carry the rare recessive gene that lets them rapidly metabolize gamma. That he and Jen share, as close blood relatives. And a few others would, out there among the billions of people on the planet. Bruce's genetics are special, but not unique.

So she still could receive the blood transfusion, like in the comics, thanks for proving that further.

Baffling that you'd be pushing for these changes to her comics origin while complaining about other changes, on the basis that "all change is automatically bad".

Another fallacy since i never said that, but keep going

False. Ties in with Daredevil REALLY directly, and the "plot" was written to serve the metanarrative that was the actual plot, which a lot of you seem to not "get". The "plot" is silly and has holes? That's literally the point of the actual plot.

What is false about the possibility to using kingping? this quote make no actual sense in the conversation, pretty much like the show.

Given that the MCU is not the comics universe, there's either no reason to bring the Multiverse in to explain anything, or the fact that this is an alternate universe in the Multiverse already explains everything, and you can take your pick of those two.

So you are repeating what i said, trying to refute what i say, this is going to be the game now?

The same way some people get more confident when they put on a snappy suit or a uniform.

Ye, because changing into a green monster is the same as putting a suit or uniform.

Still doesn't change the fact that you would act different, and its not a matter of multiple personalities.

[Ivanstone]

See, it didn't feel to me that way, I don't think she spend too much time in her hulk form, either

Feels to me there was a good show somewhere, but if the highlight is Daredevil showing up and Wong i think something went wrong, as the first episodes were good but the quality just reach rock bottom every week.

Feels to me it was rushed(like some late marvel releases) some weird CGI, the plot was not good, the jokes didn't land well, like who the fuck cares about megan the horse, should go with something the rest of the world know about it, like Deadpool did.

I still think was better than hawkeye, but sheesh, i do hope they put some more work with other people for season 2.

Your feelings are wrong. Its very comic accurate. Yes that includes a chat with editorial (personified by KEVIN). Editor Renee Witterstaeter had more pages than almost every other character during the Sensational run.

I'd say the highlight was Titania copyright trolling She-Hulk. Some things I expected. That I did not. Also having some personal issues aired out with Emil Blonsky and friends was a delight.

Megan Thee Stallion is a very popular pop musician. Apparently. I don't really follow that kind of music but Tatiana Maslany does and wanted her in the show. In any event you have the entire internet to look up this shit. I would've preferred to see her rock out with Nightwish but I'm just some nerd on the internet. I know very well that a substantial amount of people care about Megan even if I think their tastes are misplaced.

Why you no like Hawkeye? Why you gotta be weird?!?!?

[Endus]

So she still could receive the blood transfusion, like in the comics, thanks for proving that further.

Literally nobody argued she couldn't have. You've made no case that they should have done that instead.

Another fallacy since i never said that, but keep going

You complained that they changed her origin, on the basis that they made changes, and nothing else.

What is false about the possibility to using kingping? this quote make no actual sense in the conversation, pretty much like the show.

The falsity was claiming that the show doesn't tie in to the greater MCU well enough. It's arguably done more than most in expanding the greater MCU and making it a working universe than any other show or film, by incorporating supers into broader society, like all the supers at Blonsky's retreat. It humanized them as a group, rather than just as the individual hero we're currently following at the moment.

Ye, because changing into a green monster is the same as putting a suit or uniform.

She's not a "monster" in the first place. And how is it meaningfully different? The point is, there's no change in personality, other than the normal change in expression of personality.

Still doesn't change the fact that you would act different, and its not a matter of multiple personalities.

I'd still be the exact same person. You were claiming Jen wasn't, so you were clearly talking about multiple personalities.

[Syegfryed]

It's the only part that matters.

you could have just said this first instead of pretending "nothing much changed". You think that is the only bit that matters, it fair, your opinion.

It is...because, to the best of his knowledge, he knew that his blood was fatal to normal people. The fact that it didn't kill her is explained in the comics as them both having a rare gene. He wouldn't just give his cousin a death sentence.

If she was actually already dying, like in the comics, it would not be a death sentence, its not like Bruce is super smart and could figure that his blood relative could share his genes and still survive the gamble.

That's a major change to the origin.

Sure, way more than what we got /s

By the same reasoning...her saving Bruce doesn't change her origins either. The mobhit is not an important part of her character... it just sets up the circumstances.

You can't not say that something different is not a change, lmao

If they were making She-Hulk in a different part of the multiverse... you might have a point. She's in the same universe that the MCU is based in...the series is stuck

The MCU is a different universe compared to the comics earth 616

They are the exact same person. A person can be more or less confident depending on the circumstances. It doesn't change who they are.

You still do things different, thats the point of the alter ego, when heroes put the suit they are not "the exact the same", They change how they acts and how they present to others, again, something i don't think the show portrayed well.

Is like saying Matt murdock "is the exact the same" as daredevil, its not, they are the same person yes, but they are still different personas.

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Literally nobody argued she couldn't have. You've made no case that they should have done that instead.

They should have done is again, another matter of opinion, i think they should, seems like a better approach to me.

You complained that they changed her origin, on the basis that they made changes, and nothing else.

And you use the fallacy that therefore, it means in my view, any change is bad. ok.

The falsity was claiming that the show doesn't tie in to the greater MCU well enough.

Ok... but i never said that? Can you please stop attacking points i never made and go back to lurking?

[Endus]

You still do things different, thats the point of the alter ego, when heroes put the suit they are not "the exact the same", They change how they acts and how they present to others, again, something i don't think the show portrayed well.

Is like saying Matt murdock "is the exact the same" as daredevil, its not, they are the same person yes, but they are still different personas.

This is a seriously incoherent take. People like Matt, or Batman in DC, are the same person in street clothes. They're just hiding the real "them"; they're playing a persona that isn't real. Matt's still the same guy, suit or not. He's just pretending to not be that guy.

Meanwhile, you've got plenty of characters who are exactly the same, suit or not. Tony Stark, Steve Rogers (famously so even in the comics), Stephen Strange, none of these people are any different when they put on the suits. They don't have anything to hide.

Neither does Jen Walters. Everyone knows who she is, pretty darned quickly, and what she is. She has no reason to put up any facade.

Yes, none of these characters actually change their personalities when they change into or out of the suit. A handful fake that, to get by, often because they're wanted by the cops for their suited capers. But that's it.