[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Darththeo]

It's a little more complicated when you're dealing with a Shared Cinematic Universe.

Technically, the entire MCU could be considered a "spin off" from Iron Man. It could also be considered "sequels" (or prequels).

This.

Also, "Vision Quest" is in development.

Cool. I was wondering when we were going to hear about them following up on White Vision. Seems it was announced in October.

[Endus]

I'm running the tape back in my mind as we discuss this lol.

Wanda Vision was a set up for a movie. It wouldn't make sense to have a season 2.

The Falcon and the Winter Soldier has potential to continue the story, but likely is more of a set up for a movie.

Loki was absolutely set up for a second season.

Hawkeye has a ton of potential to be a tie in series to introduce a Young Avengers/West Coast Avengers/Marvel Rising cast. However they assemble the young folks.

Moon Knight has potential to continue on. Lots of stories can be told with this character.

Ms Marvel was another movie set up.

She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (???) We will see. It could continue, but it might be weird due to the finale.

So there are 4 that could continue on, with only 2 confirmed.

They're pretty clearly using most of these shows as character intros so they don't have to waste time in most films doing the whole origin story again; Ms. Marvel can just be there in the upcoming Marvels film alongside Captain Marvel and they don't need to explain who she is. Same for Kate Bishop's Hawkeye, Moon Knight, She-Hulk, US Agent, and so on. One of the strengths of Marvel has always been that they can bring characters in and out of a single line's narrative, so it feels like an interconnected world, and they're trying to build up the MCU to a point they can do the same, not just with big Avengers-style shows, but more like having Wong just show up to be Wong for a moment where the story needs him. As he's done multiple times in the shows, for instance. She-Hulk's probably the most blatant demonstration of that, if deliberately done shallowly for laughs rather than deep narrative.

Loki set up Kang, but that's it; pretty much all the other really meaningful characters who might show up from that are just Loki. And Kang, really, was just at the last second; that show is pretty much entirely Loki. There's more story for Loki, hence a 2nd season, especially since he's in an alternate universe now and we don't know if this Loki will become the MCU Loki, replacing the original Loki who died to Thanos. I've said Loki way too many times.

The rest were all setup for major character changes or introductions. I actually really like this model; the significant character work happens in the shows where we get 8-10 hours of time to give it the treatment it requires, and then we can punctuate that character development with the big wham-pow of a blockbuster film. No need to explain why Wanda's a villain in Multiverse of Madness; we saw her fall through Wandavision. If you tried to explain that in the runtime of MoM itself, audiences would riot, both because it would be so forced it would seem like character assassination, and because it's such a hard heel-turn with no foreshadowing. Wandavision, though, fully justifies that turn and takes its time showing both Wanda's fragility and her propensity for resorting to extreme means to get what she wants, especially where family is concerned. MoM doesn't work without Wandavision, and you couldn't do Wandavision in a movie's runtime.

This lets us take our time with the character-driven stuff that's often talky and introspective and not as whizz-bang, and also have the big action-packed blockbusters. And I think that's a good thing.

[Syegfryed]

Hey, this is my one and only reply to you.

We've discussed plenty about what we like and don't like about She-Hulk in this thread, which you would know if you actually cared about discussing the show instead of just coming on here and regurgitating Critical Drinker's lies, I mean talking points.

Thats why said most of then, not all of then, you know there is a difference on it right?

And i don't watch critical drinker to know if he is lying or not, but seems like a pretty bold claim.

We've all been put off by the CGI to varying degrees, we would have preferred it to be stronger on the legal bits, I did not like the wedding episode at all (can't remember if that's general point or not), we thought that the humor didn't always land. But there's also bits we like, which we've tried talking about around your and your crew's spam of meaningless hatred throughout the thread.

Sure, ok? like i said previously, i was able to enjoy most of the show(more than hawkeye by example), even if it was a bad show overall, same way i enjoyed last marvel movies like doctor strange and it was a fucking mess.

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Of course he doesn't. That's largely because the Venn Diagram of those who don't understand the show was making fun of people like themselves and those who personify the Dunning-Kruger Effect is pretty much a circle.

Not rly, if you go back some pages you find out that i actually liked the bit of then making fun of those people, with then saying "we don't need a female version of the hulk" in basically twitter, i think those bits are funny and work, but when the whole show is that, it gets boring, cause its what happens if you repeat the gag over and over.

I don't think Syeg understand that people can argue against things they find to be false, while not actually defending the show.

And i don't think you understand that just because you don't like/don't agree with something, that is "false" and you do not need to 'win" an argument.

I encounter this when I argue with people on the Star Wars Sequels where people accuse me of "liking them" when I argue against bad takes on the sequels. They aren't good, but doesn't mean I have to accept every complaint against them because of that. Even shows like She-hulk, I can't say I liked the show, I enjoyed the parts I did, but not enough to say I want to watch the series again. However, when someone states that show does something it doesn't, I am going to point out they are wrong.

And what did i say about the show that was "false'? other than my own impressions of the character?

[Koriani]

Loki and What if were always planned as Multi-season shows.

The rest were there to setup future events... Wanda in Dr. Strange, Sam Wilson becoming Captain America, Clint Barton passing on the mantle of Hawkeye, etc

Was it? Loki I mean?

Because I remember the exact opposite. Before it aired, Disney had already stated it was a 1 season show, with the "possibility" of a season 2 (implying if it was popular enough). And then, after it hit, they announced it was getting a Season 2.

I remember having a conversation with Hubby, because I *hate* limited run/1 season series - that the "only show in this whole lineup I'm interested in, Loki, is still just one season.. ugg I don't know that I want to bother," and being happy when I heard it was actually getting a season 2.

I realize old fogey memory may be wrong but I REALLY REMEMBER at some point, the impression was, Loki was ALSO only one season at launch. =D

[Rocksteady 87]

Not rly, if you go back some pages you find out that i actually liked the bit of then making fun of those people, with then saying "we don't need a female version of the hulk" in basically twitter, i think those bits are funny and work, but when the whole show is that, it gets boring, cause its what happens if you repeat the gag over and over.

Ya rly.

That's covered by the other portion of the aforementioned Venn diagram.

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Was it? Loki I mean?

Because I remember the exact opposite. Before it aired, Disney had already stated it was a 1 season show, with the "possibility" of a season 2 (implying if it was popular enough). And then, after it hit, they announced it was getting a Season 2.

You, you did see the series, right? And how it was clear that was just the start of the story?

I think you're confusing "what they said to make the bean-counters feel better in case it did flop and they'd have an out" with "it was clearly planned to consist of multiple season." Because it was very clearly meant to be a continuing story.

[Koriani]

MoM doesn't work without Wandavision

Not a point that is relevant to anything with the thread. So we don't have to discuss it, really. I just had an issue with this one part.

Because being the one person out of several people I knew who watched MoM and not Wandavision - MoM works just as well without it. Hubby watched Wandavision with me, but remembered jack shit about it (history of AD/HD and brain surgery, his short term memory is shit), and had no problem with any of the story in MoM, nor any questions at all.

In fact, I think it could work better NOT seeing WandaVision before MoM.

Because as the person who watched WV and enjoyed it 'fine', I STILL felt, at the end of MoM, that there was zippo need to watch WandaVision and, actually, a bit annoyed that I'd bothered to do so, as I saw none of it connected to, or discussed, in MoM, outside of the brief exchange early on between Wanda and Dr. Strange before she goes Full-Red-Devil. I also felt that some of MoM's plot HAD already /supposedly/ been discussed and covered in WandaVision (her own internal battle stuff) and NONE of that plot or insight mattered at all. WandaVision made no difference, either way, into how Wanda acted or portrayed herself and her choices, in the movie. None of it might as well have happened.

I don't hate WandaVision or anything because of it. The show stands on its 'own' just fine (I mean if you're an MCU fan already). But my opinion on MoM and WandaVision both was lowered because I had expected the show's point was to evolve the character and mean something to the movie - and it just didn't. Outside of it serving the "so this is what happened in this chapter..before the MoM chapter", just none of those events...meant anything to what happened *next*.

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Ya rly.

That's covered by the other portion of the aforementioned Venn diagram.

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You, you did see the series, right? And how it was clear that was just the start of the story?

I think you're confusing "what they said to make the bean-counters feel better in case it did flop and they'd have an out" with "it was clearly planned to consist of multiple season." Because it was very clearly meant to be a continuing story.

Yes, I did see it.

And I acknowledge Disney "lied" to the public before release, telling people it was a single season.

The POINT I was making is that I was reading people saying "Loki got a second season out the gate" and my point was, "Well the way the AUDIENCE understood it, until that last episode (and the announcement) was it was NOT getting a second season." That information came after release. THAT was really my only point.

Not what we understand now, or post-show release. But what 'we' the audience were led to believe, prior to release.

[rhorle]

Because I remember the exact opposite. Before it aired, Disney had already stated it was a 1 season show, with the "possibility" of a season 2 (implying if it was popular enough). And then, after it hit, they announced it was getting a Season 2.

They changed plans during production but the original plan going in was for it to be a single season. So it wasn't after it became a hit but it was changed at some point.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

Was it? Loki I mean?

Because I remember the exact opposite. Before it aired, Disney had already stated it was a 1 season show, with the "possibility" of a season 2 (implying if it was popular enough). And then, after it hit, they announced it was getting a Season 2.

I remember having a conversation with Hubby, because I *hate* limited run/1 season series - that the "only show in this whole lineup I'm interested in, Loki, is still just one season.. ugg I don't know that I want to bother," and being happy when I heard it was actually getting a season 2.

I realize old fogey memory may be wrong but I REALLY REMEMBER at some point, the impression was, Loki was ALSO only one season at launch. =D

"Possibility of a season 2" means they had a plan for multiple seasons. Now, if the show tanked...they wouldn't have to go through with it...but the plan was there. They already had ideas for how they could take the series forward.

Contrast that with Falcon and the Winter Soldier and WandaVision...which were clearly meant to be event series that tie into movies later. Both of them were also big hits but a possible second season for either was never mentioned. A second season of Falcon and The Winter Soldier couldn't even properly be called "Falcon and the Winter Soldier".

[Syegfryed]

You, you did see the series, right? And how it was clear that was just the start of the story?

I think you're confusing "what they said to make the bean-counters feel better in case it did flop and they'd have an out" with "it was clearly planned to consist of multiple season." Because it was very clearly meant to be a continuing story.

Feels to me Loki was just a way to put Loki into the MCU again, add a few characters and set up Kang as the new villain, and not supposed to be a multi-series show. But since it made sucess(mostly because the actor and old loki)

Same with Wandawivison being something to set up new characters like Monica, Whitevision and Wanda herself as villain of MOM(well i heard the villain was going to be nightmare, so things end all messed up in the production). Same way Falcon and winter soldier was a way to set up New captain america movie while adding new characters.

Now that i think about it, only Moon-knight rly have a way to be a multi-season show. Even Ms marvel was a set up for the Marvels.

[JDL49]

Now that i think about it, only Moon-knight rly have a way to be a multi-season show. Even Ms marvel was a set up for the Marvels.

With Blade and Midnight Suns on the horizon MK may well tie in there. Oddly enough the only show to likely go more than 1 season is What if and those are all either one shots or very close to it.

[Syegfryed]

With Blade and Midnight Suns on the horizon MK may well tie in there. Oddly enough the only show to likely go more than 1 season is What if and those are all either one shots or very close to it.

I don't think there is a need for moonknight to appear in blade, for me it make sense to let him be a tv-show thing like daredevil was, he is a sort of hero that can act in a small scale sort of thing.

Which i think is the way to go, take "weaker" heroes, and put into TV shows, since its easier to work around power level, Loki to me was a darn mess.

[Fabinas]

"Possibility of a season 2" means they had a plan for multiple seasons. Now, if the show tanked...they wouldn't have to go through with it...but the plan was there. They already had ideas for how they could take the series forward.

Contrast that with Falcon and the Winter Soldier and WandaVision...which were clearly meant to be event series that tie into movies later. Both of them were also big hits but a possible second season for either was never mentioned. A second season of Falcon and The Winter Soldier couldn't even properly be called "Falcon and the Winter Soldier".

So, if they make a show titled "Captain America and the White Wolf", will you consider it a second season of "Falcon and The Winter Soldier" or a new show altogether?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So, if they make a show titled "Captain America and the White Wolf", will you consider it a second season of "Falcon and The Winter Soldier" or a new show altogether?

Probably somewhere in between. As I said earlier, things get complicated with a shared universe.

Sam Wilson's story will continue in "Captain America: New World Order"

James Buchanan "Bucky" Barnes story will continue in "Thunderbolts".

After that, it is likely we will see one or both in "Avengers: The Kang Dynasty" and "Avengers: Secret War".

And there's also a non-zero percent chance they could show up in other films or series as well.

As of now, there doesn't seem to be any plans to put Sam and Bucky back together..at least not as a dynamic duo. If it were to happen that the powers that be decide to put those two back together on Disney+...I feel it would probably be closer to a revival, along the lines of Dexter: New Blood, than a second season of F&TWS.

[AcidicSyn]

My favorite part of this thread is how every so often, like 12ish pages or so, at least following the finale, you will still get one or two hopefuls who just want to talk about the show, especially when they just now got around to watch it, and feel like chiming in. To those folks, don't ever quit, you're awesome.

The rest of the thread, a summary:

This show is terrible
You mean you think its terrible?
No its objectively bad writing.
What's objectively bad about it?
I didn't find it entertaining at all
That's not what objectivity means
shut up

for.....how many pages since the finale? 30?


OT: Aww man I was so sure Moonknight was renewed for a season 2 along with Loki, am sad now.

As for she-hulk, even if there's no season 2 surely she'll appear in the next team up movie? =\

[Fabinas]

My favorite part of this thread is how every so often, like 12ish pages or so, at least following the finale, you will still get one or two hopefuls who just want to talk about the show, especially when they just now got around to watch it, and feel like chiming in. To those folks, don't ever quit, you're awesome.

The rest of the thread, a summary:

This show is terrible
You mean you think its terrible?
No its objectively bad writing.
What's objectively bad about it?
I didn't find it entertaining at all
That's not what objectivity means
shut up

for.....how many pages since the finale? 30?


OT: Aww man I was so sure Moonknight was renewed for a season 2 along with Loki, am sad now.

As for she-hulk, even if there's no season 2 surely she'll appear in the next team up movie? =\

Fencers has explained what was bad. The res of us have spent pages explaining "bad writing". I am not one to go again for the same old shit.

Probably a movie about Hulk Family.

[Darththeo]

My favorite part of this thread is how every so often, like 12ish pages or so, at least following the finale, you will still get one or two hopefuls who just want to talk about the show, especially when they just now got around to watch it, and feel like chiming in. To those folks, don't ever quit, you're awesome.

The rest of the thread, a summary:

This show is terrible
You mean you think its terrible?
No its objectively bad writing.
What's objectively bad about it?
I didn't find it entertaining at all
That's not what objectivity means
shut up

for.....how many pages since the finale? 30?

People have pointed out flaws in the writing. So, people have done more than that. The issue is you have people arguing the show is crap because they personally didn't like it, and of course when you have people repeating the "I didn't like it" argument, you are going to go in loops.

OT: Aww man I was so sure Moonknight was renewed for a season 2 along with Loki, am sad now.

As for she-hulk, even if there's no season 2 surely she'll appear in the next team up movie? =\

It is open for a Season 2, but again, most MCU shows start with plans for only a single season. Those that got confirmed for second seasons got it after work on Season 1 finished and in some cases before the series finished (or even aired). Season 2 of What If? was worked on before Season 1 aired. And I believe the same is true for Loki.

I don't know if we will get Season 2 of Moonknight, but I will welcome it. If we do get Season 2, it won't be until 2024 at the earliest.

[AcidicSyn]

People have pointed out flaws in the writing. So, people have done more than that. The issue is you have people arguing the show is crap because they personally didn't like it, and of course when you have people repeating the "I didn't like it" argument, you are going to go in loops.




It is open for a Season 2, but again, most MCU shows start with plans for only a single season. Those that got confirmed for second seasons got it after work on Season 1 finished and in some cases before the series finished (or even aired). Season 2 of What If? was worked on before Season 1 aired. And I believe the same is true for Loki.

I don't know if we will get Season 2 of Moonknight, but I will welcome it. If we do get Season 2, it won't be until 2024 at the earliest.

Bolded bit are the people I mentioned were awesome. The summary was about the "It's bad because I don't like it" crowd who seem to be annoyed that anyone does like it and taking every opportunity to argue that point as though its a valid point to debate. (perfectly valid opinion to have, but to debate? why? /shrug)

As for Moonknight, that one I really enjoyed and do hope we get another season of, though I'm curious how no one outside of the show seems to have noticed the sky whirring around in fast reverse. Then again no one wants to talk about the dude sticking out of the ocean either =\

[Biomega]

The rest of the thread, a summary:

This show is terrible
You mean you think its terrible?
No its objectively bad writing.
What's objectively bad about it?
I didn't find it entertaining at all
That's not what objectivity means
shut up

for.....how many pages since the finale? 30?

If we could solve the problem of people going "I didn't like it, therefore it's bad" in one or two posts, that'd be great. But that's not going to happen, is it. I understand the problem of derailing threads, and I'm definitely not an innocent in that respect - but the battle against bad epistemology must continue. It rages on many fronts.

In a sense, it's at least somewhat on-topic here because the show actively made fun of incorrigible internet warriors who picked their own bigoted, misguided lane with no intention of switching or changing their minds.

[Darththeo]

Bolded bit are the people I mentioned were awesome. The summary was about the "It's bad because I don't like it" crowd who seem to be annoyed that anyone does like it and taking every opportunity to argue that point as though its a valid point to debate. (perfectly valid opinion to have, but to debate? why? /shrug)

As for Moonknight, that one I really enjoyed and do hope we get another season of, though I'm curious how no one outside of the show seems to have noticed the sky whirring around in fast reverse. Then again no one wants to talk about the dude sticking out of the ocean either =\

Oh, I enjoyed it too. Sadly, the only reference to the dude sticking out of the ocean was an Easter Egg in She-hulk, which you likely never see because it is blurred referenced. I wish there were more cross references in Phase 4, but there isn't. Like you have a few Easter Eggs and a line in Multiverse of Madness, but nothing else.

[Polyxo]

My favorite part of this thread is how every so often, like 12ish pages or so, at least following the finale, you will still get one or two hopefuls who just want to talk about the show, especially when they just now got around to watch it, and feel like chiming in. To those folks, don't ever quit, you're awesome.

The rest of the thread, a summary:

This show is terrible
You mean you think its terrible?
No its objectively bad writing.
What's objectively bad about it?
I didn't find it entertaining at all
That's not what objectivity means
shut up

for.....how many pages since the finale? 30?


OT: Aww man I was so sure Moonknight was renewed for a season 2 along with Loki, am sad now.

As for she-hulk, even if there's no season 2 surely she'll appear in the next team up movie? =\

I think that's okay as long as they're going to integrate him into the rest of the MCU as a guy who sometimes shows up and interacts with other things.