1. #1301
    Herald of the Titans Ratyrel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,620
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    The fourth episode is a mess. I don't like to make judgements of an entire show without watching all of it, that's why i usually prefer to go episode by episode (and why i'll watch the remaining episodes too). But so far bad writing is the best way to describe the entire thing. In my opinion it doesn't work as any of the things that it's meant to be... it doesn't work as a lawyers sitcom (they didn't even try), it doesn't work as a comedy and it doesn't work as a super hero show.
    This is also my take. It started awkward and is not improving thus far: the comedy is cringe-inducing, the 4th wall breaking doesn't fit the character or the vibe and feels defensive, the legal cases are ridiculous or uninteresting (we're supposed to care if Blonsky can get parole or not?!), none of the character relationships have any depth, and there are no stakes. I don't think this is just because it's not my kind of TV; any lawyer show I've seen has interesting cases with actual stakes and complexity, as well as office politics among the regulars, all of which this show seems to forgo. Maybe its the short episode length, but the whole thing feels very shallow. I really feel sorry for the vfx people who had to work so hard on making a digital protagonist for this sub-par product.

  2. #1302
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratyrel View Post
    there are no stakes
    [...]
    any lawyer show I've seen has interesting cases with actual stakes and complexity
    I think their problem is largely that they didn't quite make clear to people what this was.

    This is a sitcom. There are no stakes because "boss is coming to dinner" is about as high as it gets for sitcom stakes - that's just the genre. And it's not a lawyer show either, the legal stuff is just backdrop and window dressing.

    It's a sitcom about a woman who's got a green problem in her life, and the hijinks that ensue. It's not a drama. It doesn't need or want stakes.

    The problem is, a lot of people thought this was going to be a lot more like previous MCU shows. Not necessarily super serious, but serious enough to slot into that lineup. And it's just not that, and never tried to be. They may have just not done a good enough job explaining that to people.

  3. #1303
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    An open discussion would be you watching the show and then discussing it. Right now your just slinging mud for the sake of slinging mud.
    I did watch all the Marvel series.
    I did watch the latest she-shrek episode, and will continue doing so, if only out of morbid curiosity.
    The show is so bad it's agonizing to watch tbf, and I am starting to question if I might be a masochist to an extent.

    I mean come on, the jokes fall flat you might call them faceplanting.
    All the court scenes are cringe-inducing and no amount of cutting slack amends them.
    Blatant narrative about Jen being so very great, strong and independent female character reeks of Mary Sue -like scum the likes of Rey from SW trilogy.
    Manhating narrative is just that - manhating, it is not funny, it is not a message, just a narrative.
    The show is bad, which is sad, yet expectable to a certain extent considering its part of Marvel series, and Marvel series are a a disappointment in general.

  4. #1304
    Legendary! Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    6,073
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    I'm genuinely curious what the appeal is. And none of my points were counted outside of "comic book did it" so seems like there isn't much to say about this show unless you like the humor? People watch it out of some kinda sunk cost fallacy and are hoping to get a sneak peak of the next Thanos sitting down and mumbling out threats?
    Then you wouldn't be arguing the way you are.
    If you were curious, you'd be asking questions on the show or clarification for scenes that are taken out of context or misrepresented by social media.

    You aren't coming across as curious, but rather opinionated on something you have no knowledge of.
    It is like me saying I have an opinion on Stranger Things despite never finishing an episode of it. I have no opinion on Stranger things save "I can't get into it."
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  5. #1305
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You aren't coming across as curious, but rather opinionated on something you have no knowledge of.
    It is like me saying I have an opinion on Stranger Things despite never finishing an episode of it. I have no opinion on Stranger things save "I can't get into it."
    It's certainly a nice arguement there, but I haven't done drugs a single time, can I have an opinion in that regard?
    Or do I need to do some coke before forming an opinion?

  6. #1306
    Titan Al Gorefiend's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A state of madness
    Posts
    11,066
    A smart direction to take she-hulk season 2 would be to embrace the trolls and get under their skin more and more each episode. It'd be hilariously in tune with She-Hulk to depower critics by being oblivious to them.

    Like imagine the final episode being a large twerking montage.
    This shows been the best one from Disney+ sheerly out of the publicity they're getting. Now millions more will tune in immediately for the opportunity to OP the outrage thread.

  7. #1307
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    It's certainly a nice arguement there, but I haven't done drugs a single time, can I have an opinion in that regard?
    Or do I need to do some coke before forming an opinion?
    You would be able to have an opinion on other people doing drugs, the effects on their lives and such, as an outsider.

    You wouldn't be able to have an opinion on the experience of doing drugs.

    I haven't watched this show yet, so I don't have an opinion on it, other than some people seem to be enjoying it, others aren't. Some think it's too much of a sitcom for Marvel. Some complain about stuff that isn't technically in the show, but they perceive to be. Some complain about stuff that others say it's implied in the show, but admit that they haven't seen it.

    I do have an opinion on these people's "opinion", and it's that it's not worth shit. But I don't have an opinion on the show. Because I haven't watched it. And anything I'd say about it, would be coming out of my ass.
    Last edited by Soulwind; 2022-09-09 at 12:07 PM.

  8. #1308
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    You would be able to have an opinion on other people doing drugs, the effects on their lives and such, as an outsider.

    You wouldn't be able to have an opinion on the experience of doing drugs.
    So...being informed through other means sides personal experience makes one's opinion null and void?
    That is quite a logic there, but I digress.


    Quote Originally Posted by Soulwind View Post
    Some think it's too much of a sitcom for Marvel. Some complain about stuff that isn't technically in the show, but they perceive to be. Some complain about stuff that others say it's implied in the show, but admit that they haven't seen it.

    I do have an opinion on these people's "opinion", and it's that it's not worth shit.
    Why?

  9. #1309
    Legendary! Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    6,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    It's certainly a nice arguement there, but I haven't done drugs a single time, can I have an opinion in that regard?
    Or do I need to do some coke before forming an opinion?
    I was going to respond. But, Soulwind responded beautifully. And I feel there is nothing I could add.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    So...being informed through other means sides personal experience makes one's opinion null and void?
    That is quite a logic there, but I digress.
    Depends on where someone gets their view from.

    If you get your information from a bias source that misrepresents the source material, your opinion is not valid.
    If you get your information from an unbias source that accurately reflects the material, you can justify your opinion.

    But, it is hard to argue with someone who lacks any understanding of the subject.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  10. #1310
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    You're more tolerant than I am. If I think a new show is promising I'll give it a go for the first three episodes to win me over.
    You're missing out on a lot of television then because there are a ton of series where the actors and show runners are still working on their chemistry for the entire first season before the show gets good. For example, season 1 of x-files is complete trash and not at all a reflection on the rest of the series.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    ok, just to clarify. I understand that its going to be inaccurate and I understand the point of comedy. my problem is when comedy starts to supersede character development to the point of being jarring, unless the point is that the character is supposed to be incompetent.

    for example, lets take Leverage. that series while bases itself on actual real life inspirations, its WILDLY exaggerated in terms of what characters actualy do. there are always vents for Parker to climb through and lasers to gymnastic her way through, Hardison engages in ridiculously wide variety of arts and crafts and his hacking is NOT on a level of "Hackers" in its ridiculousness, but its not exactly 100% realistic either, Eliot gets to beat up some mooks and for whatever reason its always hand to hand, and always very showy, Sofie cons her way through some very implausible situations sometimes.... and yet.... I never fell thrown out of the story, because both original and the reunion shows take pains to not just tell me that characters are competent - but also shows me.

    with Jen... I don't get that. I feel like we are being told that she is competent... but we are not shown that. what we ARE shown is that she gets lucky. yes. even though there are typically circumstances that make things harder for her - she STILL gets lucky with things. she doesn't seem to win through competence. and that bothers me unless showing that she is not actualy competent despite her assurances otherwise - is the whole point. maybe it is, the show is barely half way through.

    I still find a lot of the bits funny and overall, I'm enjoying it, but there ARE things about the way its written that bother me, because to me they feel like the narrative is just a tad disjointed where too many things feel like a series of comedy skits set within the same universe, using the same characters, but they are still separate skits rather then a cohesive story, you know?
    She's a competent prosecutor. She's not a competent defender of super heroes/villians and civil manners involving super-powered individuals. Nobody is.

  11. #1311
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    Depends on where someone gets their view from.

    If you get your information from a bias source that misrepresents the source material, your opinion is not valid.
    If you get your information from an unbias source that accurately reflects the material, you can justify your opinion.

    But, it is hard to argue with someone who lacks any understanding of the subject.
    Which, in turn, depends on who's to define what's biased and what's unbiased, don't you think?

    But, it's hard to argue with someone who either demands you to watch and stfu or do not watch and stfu just as well. Not pointed directly at you, but it's a certain vibe going on when discussing tv shows on most platforms, from my experience.

    Do we agree that it is allowed to criticize stuff, to begin with?
    Under what conditions?
    In what shape and/or form?
    Can I cease watching, yet continue to criticize?
    Can I criticize without watching it any more?
    Can I continue watching it out of morbid curiosity and criticize? Or this one strikes me out as biased from the get-go?

  12. #1312
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I was more disappointed in the abject inability of competent investigation by NYPD. But it was good for me, since I didn't go into prosecution but public defense.
    ROFLMAO. The only place cops are good at investigating is television, so it's more realistic if cops are incompetent.

  13. #1313
    Quote Originally Posted by fwc577 View Post
    ROFLMAO. The only place cops are good at investigating is television, so it's more realistic if cops are incompetent.
    Cannot disagree more.
    I had a job at Investigation Committee for a couple of years and I can say they're working mighty fine considering the amount of tasks they have to deal with.

  14. #1314
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    The problem is, a lot of people thought this was going to be a lot more like previous MCU shows. Not necessarily super serious, but serious enough to slot into that lineup. And it's just not that, and never tried to be. They may have just not done a good enough job explaining that to people.
    I don't think they failed to explain anything. I think they are fully aware of what they are doing and they rely on the MCU and the MCU audience just to be relevant, even if it means enraging part of that audience.

    If they honestly just wanted to make a sitcom about a woman with a green problem messing up her life... they would not rely so much on cameos from already liked and stablished MCU characters up to the point that they use the 4th wall to admit that those cameos are more liked than the protagonist, or film an entire sequence of expected bad reactions to she-hulk being a woman.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  15. #1315
    Legendary! Darththeo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away
    Posts
    6,073
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    Which, in turn, depends on who's to define what's biased and what's unbiased, don't you think?
    It isn't just bias or unbias. You ignored half the sentence. It isn't just the bias that matters, but how the source reflects the material.

    For example, Jen says women's anger is more justified and is attacking Hulk <- This did not happen in the show.
    Jen says she is infinitely more often controls her anger, I find this odd because the Hulk has had to control his anger for over a decade at this point and Jen should know this. <- This accurately reflects the show.

    You are judging bias by how they explain the show. There is a lot of misinformation about what the show says out there.

    But, it's hard to argue with someone who either demands you to watch and stfu or do not watch and stfu just as well. Not pointed directly at you, but it's a certain vibe going on when discussing tv shows on most platforms, from my experience.
    If you haven't watched the show, your opinion on what happened in the show can be discounted unless you show where you got that information from.

    Do we agree that it is allowed to criticize stuff, to begin with?
    Under what conditions?
    In what shape and/or form?
    Can I cease watching, yet continue to criticize?
    Can I criticize without watching it any more?
    Can I continue watching it out of morbid curiosity and criticize? Or this one strikes me out as biased from the get-go?
    You can criticize whatever you want. But you cannot expect people to take your critique seriously or treat it with the same validity as other critique.

    As I have stated, I have never seen Stranger Things. I cannot get through the first episode with how boring I found it. I do not expect anyone to take my "critique" Stranger things boring.
    Peace is a lie. There is only passion. Through passion I gain strength. Through strength I gain power.
    Through power I gain victory. Through victory my chains are broken. The Force shall set me free.
    –The Sith Code

  16. #1316
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ottawa, ON
    Posts
    73,921
    Numbering these for ease of response;

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    1> Do we agree that it is allowed to criticize stuff, to begin with?
    2> Under what conditions?
    3> In what shape and/or form?
    4> Can I cease watching, yet continue to criticize?
    5> Can I criticize without watching it any more?
    6> Can I continue watching it out of morbid curiosity and criticize? Or this one strikes me out as biased from the get-go?
    1> Literally no one has suggested you can't criticize stuff. What people are frantically trying to defend isn't criticism, though.
    2> That your criticism is A> objectively analytical, and B> actually based on direct experience of the show.
    3> Pretty much whatever, though I'll note that anything that's inspired by any form of bigotry or the like is automatically not "criticism", it's just abusive horse shit.
    4> Not what you haven't watched, because you literally wouldn't know what you're talking about.
    5> See #4; this is the same question.
    6> If you're trying to argue "bias", that's an objective determination and you'll be expected to back that up with evidence, such that anyone else can agree with your conclusion. Hate-watching a show out of "morbid curiosity", however, admits that you're not coming at this with an intent for honest criticism in the first place. It's an admission of your bias and dishonesty.

    And while you didn't bring this up;

    7> Anyone and everyone is fully entitled to criticize the absolute fuck out of your "criticism", especially if you're pushing any kind of dishonest, biased, misinformed, or agenda-driven bullshit. And if that makes you upset, your options essentially boil down to A> suck it up and accept your new life, or B> don't post your bullshit to the Internet in the first place. Feel free to make either choice, rather than complaining about being taken to task.


  17. #1317
    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    It isn't just bias or unbias. You ignored half the sentence. It isn't just the bias that matters, but how the source reflects the material.
    Thanks for the reply.
    I do not believe I ignored a thing, but lets put that aside for the time being.
    Say, criticizing a book adaptation from the point of said adaptation staying close enough to the source - is it a biased point of critique?
    Let's say there was a show about a certain man who was somewhat proficient slayer of all things magical/nocturnal/witchlike and it had a certain book source material and the actual show in question had nothing to do with the source material. Would it be a viable point of critique? Especially if the showrunner said they held the original in high regard when writing the plot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    For example, Jen says women's anger is more justified and is attacking Hulk <- This did not happen in the show.
    Jen says she is infinitely more often controls her anger, I find this odd because the Hulk has had to control his anger for over a decade at this point and Jen should know this. <- This accurately reflects the show.
    Certainly, but it can be interpreted both ways, and who's to say your interpretation is the correct one?
    You can say it is *the* correct one, but seeing as the narrative about women being oppressed, men being shallow, assholish mysoginic stupid pigs is a certain focal point in this show, can you still say there was no certain angle to that anger management scene?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You are judging bias by how they explain the show. There is a lot of misinformation about what the show says out there.
    I am not judging bias, I am judging the show, and no matter how I slice it, I find it bad.
    Ofcourse, there is always the point of my opinion being subjective, I won't argue that.
    But I think there are some quite objective points we could agree on, like Jen 3d model in 3rd episode being godawfully bad, or the whole plot of t he 3rd episode around Megan Thee WAP and Jen's stupid male white straight former colleague. That is not to mention the twerk scene. WAs said scene funny? Sure, for some people it might've been, just as some people find farting ass funny, I suppose.


    Can we say _anything_ is *objectively* bad, considering that anything can be liked(found entertaining) by some people?


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    If you haven't watched the show, your opinion on what happened in the show can be discounted unless you show where you got that information from.
    Here we are again: who's gonna decide which source of information is valid, biased or unbiased?
    Say, I watched Critical Drinker's review - does it mean my opinion is invalid, biased, null?
    If yes, why?


    Quote Originally Posted by Darththeo View Post
    You can criticize whatever you want. But you cannot expect people to take your critique seriously or treat it with the same validity as other critique.
    I'm yet to see people taking critique of this show seriously to begin with, to be frank. Perhaps it's my point of you, so I'll leave it at

  18. #1318
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ziltoidia 9
    Posts
    18,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    I'm still not entirely sold on Wong as comic relief, but I fucking love that actor so much, I'll deal with it.
    I haven't been on the Wong train up to this point. But this past episode definitely made me enjoy him more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    My bad I forgot discussion on forums are only here to be won or lost. Well done Endus you defeated me with such a mighty blow. Apologies for thinking a genuine conversation was possible
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

  19. #1319
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    6> If you're trying to argue "bias", that's an objective determination and you'll be expected to back that up with evidence, such that anyone else can agree with your conclusion. Hate-watching a show out of "morbid curiosity", however, admits that you're not coming at this with an intent for honest criticism in the first place. It's an admission of your bias and dishonesty.

    And while you didn't bring this up;

    7> Anyone and everyone is fully entitled to criticize the absolute fuck out of your "criticism", especially if you're pushing any kind of dishonest, biased, misinformed, or agenda-driven bullshit. And if that makes you upset, your options essentially boil down to A> suck it up and accept your new life, or B> don't post your bullshit to the Internet in the first place. Feel free to make either choice, rather than complaining about being taken to task.
    so, basically, you're suggesting people either watch it and stfu or do not watch yet still stfu, gotcha.



    I do not like the show. Does this statement reveal me as biased?
    If yes, how am I supposed to provide critique about something I dislike without being branded biased by the likes of you?

  20. #1320
    The Insane Kathandira's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Ziltoidia 9
    Posts
    18,569
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    The court room stuff is terrible, it's not even Jen not doing her job right, its the writers not knowing the basics of court.
    Should have hired the writers for Better Call Saul. Imagine She-hulk, but directed and written by that team.
    RIP Genn Greymane, Permabanned on 8.22.18

    Your name will carry on through generations, and will never be forgotten.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •