1. #1461
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    is black panther a Killmonger movie?

    is first iron man and Obadiah Stein movie? Is first Avengers a Loki movie? is infinity war a thanos movie?

    because this is the reasoning I'm hearing. Strange is NOT playing a second fiddle, Wanda's arc facilitates his, in much the same way above movies facilitate hero arcs through those of their villain's. hell we don't even ever see Wanda without Strange being present in some way and her perspective is STILL shown through Strange's eyes, even in the penultimate scene where she confronts her own variant and the kids - strange is the one who stop's America from closing the portal and getting Scarlet witch back, we literally cut back to him watching through the eyes of his own variant. we certainly see Strange without Wanda around.

    also, gotta love those strawmen, of comparing watching a show to eating shit. not even remotely comparable. and to elaborate. one is created to be watched. the other is most certainly NOT intended to be eaten. if you are going to compare things - compare things intended for consumption to another thing intended for consumption. in which case, no, you cannot form such strong opinions over something you haven't smelled or eaten and even then - personal tastes are a thing that exist. some people like me - love cilantro. to others, it tastes like soap
    Benedict cumberbatch disagrees and spoke openly about his feelings on Dr strange and how it didn't have an arc and possibly too much was going on outside of Dr strange himself. That's an actor paid millions by Disney and potentially hurting his chances at future employment. But yeah randoms on the net not connected to the project have more of a say you're right
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  2. #1462
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Correction, I shot down the question because it was faulty and pointed out why it is.

    The issue here is that you're dodging the issue trying to rationalize your actions.
    The issue is that you're dodging the issue.
    Huh.

  3. #1463
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Benedict cumberbatch disagrees and spoke openly about his feelings on Dr strange and how it didn't have an arc and possibly too much was going on outside of Dr strange himself. That's an actor paid millions by Disney and potentially hurting his chances at future employment. But yeah randoms on the net not connected to the project have more of a say you're right
    you don't say.... https://www.cbr.com/multiverse-of-ma...character-arc/

    early one, while the movie was still in production, he did say that there is a LOT going on in the movie, but it seems like once the movie progressed a bit AND after some additional shooting, he got some more clarity, but yeah. sure. you keep pushing the narrative while ignoring any and all evidence to the contrary.

  4. #1464
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchblade77 View Post
    you don't say.... https://www.cbr.com/multiverse-of-ma...character-arc/

    early one, while the movie was still in production, he did say that there is a LOT going on in the movie, but it seems like once the movie progressed a bit AND after some additional shooting, he got some more clarity, but yeah. sure. you keep pushing the narrative while ignoring any and all evidence to the contrary.
    Rofl did you actually read the first thing you found. He's telling fans not to worry about the reshoot and that the film will be as big as spiderman. The thing all actors say when they're not sold on the film thier promoting "it's a big fun movie!" anyway don't take my word for it I'll find the interview where he says what I said



    Cumberbatch: This is the second one of him on his own.

    Maron: So this is your movie.

    Cumberbatch: Yeah, well, yeah that’s part of the problem. There’s a lot of stuff going on in it. It’s like, “do I have a character arc in this? Is it working?” There’s great stuff for me to do in it. It’s very busy. It’s called The Multiverse of Madness and it’s bonkers.

    https://screenrant.com/doctor-strang...story-details/

    there we go disregard that as im sure you will, you little disingenuous posters you.
    Last edited by RobertoCarlos; 2022-09-11 at 09:22 PM.
    Suri Cruise and Katie Holmes are SP's.

  5. #1465
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    Is this really the depths we're falling to nowadays? The Internet has been a platform for people for so long, they feel entitled to even share their opinions on something they haven't experienced yet to even form an opinion on it, and ridicule people pointing that absurdity out?

    Like... Yes, to form your own opinion, you need to have experience. Otherwise it becomes ignorance.
    Someone’s got MMO-C politics sub form posts in my Cinema, etc sub forum. 70 pages of this garbage, I’m sure people are just tagging in and out now for the performance, if all of this isn’t the same person in the first place.

  6. #1466
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    On that I can agree to some extent.
    The problem I have with that is the dichotomy I've noticed:
    1. If you are watching/hatewatching, you are told to stfu; even voicing a negative opinion or critique gets you a fussilade of ad hominems and derogatory terms and such.
    2. If you don't like it, you are being told to to stop watching, and stfu.
    How would you solve that?
    By engaging in a bare minimum level of personal responsibility for your own choices. If you don't like something, and make yourself watch it, you're the only one responsible for your misery.

    Also, nobody gets a "fusillade of ad hominems" for not liking something. They get accused of lying when they lie about the something they don't like. Which is in no way an ad hominem.

    I've never took drugs.
    All I did is listen to other people saying it's bad.
    Maybe I should gain some general knowledge myself?
    Analogies are not arguments, I know, but here's to hoping you see what I'm getting at.
    You could point to studies or analyses which detail what your issues are. The problem here is that you categorically lied about the facts, and you don't want to admit doing so. You've openly made claims that are determinably false, and maintained them even when debunked. That's an expression of malicious intent.


  7. #1467
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    The issue is that you're dodging the issue.
    Huh.
    "I've ate fast food, so I should be able to give my opinion on books I've never read"

    That's basically your logic. You presented something completely irrelevant in the world's biggest stretch, and went confronted about it, you're just gaslighting now by accusing others of doing what you're doing.

  8. #1468
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Rofl did you actually read the first thing you found. He's telling fans not to worry about the reshoot and that the film will be as big as spiderman. The thing all actors say when they're not sold on the film thier promoting "it's a big fun movie!" anyway don't take my word for it I'll find the interview where he says what I said



    Cumberbatch: This is the second one of him on his own.

    Maron: So this is your movie.

    Cumberbatch: Yeah, well, yeah that’s part of the problem. There’s a lot of stuff going on in it. It’s like, “do I have a character arc in this? Is it working?” There’s great stuff for me to do in it. It’s very busy. It’s called The Multiverse of Madness and it’s bonkers.

    https://screenrant.com/doctor-strang...story-details/

    there we go disregard that as im sure you will, you little disingenuous posters you.
    From December, 2021, months before release. He was saying there was a lot going on and he wasn't sure they'd pull it all together because of that.

    Let's check a later interview, after he's had a chance to see the actual finished piece (since there's a ton in editing and so forth that actors don't get to fully experience while shooting);

    https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood...iverse-madness
    “The movie is really the idea that you are stronger together than you are on your own. [...] That’s part of his character arc and his learning. That’s very powerful. But also, your choices have consequences. Strange comes up against alternative realities and alternative beings and alternative selves, and sees what the consequences are [of] their choices and of his. And through that, he has a very accelerated moment of self-realization.”

    Cumberbatch, literally summing up Strange's primary character arcs in the film.

    You're engaging in malicious cherry-picking. Proper research doesn't involve going out and grabbing a single source you can twist to say what you want it to say.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-09-11 at 09:29 PM.


  9. #1469
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    On that I can agree to some extent.
    The problem I have with that is the dichotomy I've noticed:
    1. If you are watching/hatewatching, you are told to stfu; even voicing a negative opinion or critique gets you a fussilade of ad hominems and derogatory terms and such.
    2. If you don't like it, you are being told to to stop watching, and stfu.
    How would you solve that?
    If your "negative opinion" is based on a lie or total ignorance...it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.

    But, again, why are you hatewatching the show? Just so you can go online and argue about it to people that enjoy it?

    To listen to what people say, for one.
    Take W/V for example: I dislike that show with a passion(and all the recent marvel series, at that), and I'm interested as to what people say about it.
    Tastes differ, right? I didn't like Housewife 5: Prey, for example.
    Are you interested in what people have to say...or are you just interested in telling them that they're wrong.

    I've never took drugs.
    All I did is listen to other people saying it's bad.
    Maybe I should gain some general knowledge myself?
    You have general knowledge. "Johnny" told you that drugs are bad.

    Do you feel comfortable debating "Jenny", who has used marijuana for years to help with her anxiety issues, based solely on what Johnny has told you?

    Analogies are not arguments, I know, but here's to hoping you see what I'm getting at.
    It's a bad analogy. Johnny is the one that knows about drugs...you're just regurgitating what Johnny has told you and passing it off as your own opinion.

    More like: "I haven't shot people in the head...but I have watched people getting shot in the head before...therefore my opinion that shooting people in the head leads to their death is valid."
    If you're an architect and I'm a cabdriver....does my opinion of architecture equal yours simply because I have a general idea of what a building is?
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  10. #1470
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    "I've ate fast food, so I should be able to give my opinion on books I've never read"

    That's basically your logic. You presented something completely irrelevant in the world's biggest stretch, and went confronted about it, you're just gaslighting now by accusing others of doing what you're doing.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the last 2 or 3 days, I was the one who's been constantly accused of either lying, or exaggerating, or speaking out of my behind due to presumably not watching the show, or flatout insulted. That is not to mention DEMANDS I take responsibility for the inquired crimes, a repentance, and a vow of silence.
    But I would rather we discuss the series instead of my humble self.
    So, She-Shrek.
    Jester Joe, what can you say about it? What do you find likeable about this show and why?
    The main character? The plot? The humor? What's your take on these three?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    If your "negative opinion" is based on a lie or total ignorance...it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously.
    Who's to decide if my opinion is based on lies or ignorance?
    The same people who shit on anyone saying anything remotely negative?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    But, again, why are you hatewatching the show? Just so you can go online and argue about it to people that enjoy it?
    No.
    I am(or was until Endgame) MCU fan, and I want to keep in check with the multi-plot across the movies and series.
    And in certain cases, I sincerely _hope_ that the series will be good, like with ChocolateEye, alas, to no avail though it might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Are you interested in what people have to say...or are you just interested in telling them that they're wrong.
    I dare you to find a single quote of mine where I'm telling others they're wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You have general knowledge. "Johnny" told you that drugs are bad.

    Do you feel comfortable debating "Jenny", who has used marijuana for years to help with her anxiety issues, based solely on what Johnny has told you?
    I'm not comfortable debating Jimmy, who's doing coke and heroin makedonian style.
    But I think I see what you're getting at: not all the drugs are bad.
    Well, not all the MCU movies are bad, either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    It's a bad analogy. Johnny is the one that knows about drugs...you're just regurgitating what Johnny has told you and passing it off as your own opinion.
    What if the State was the Johnny?
    Do I still have to talk to the likes of Jenny?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    If you're an architect and I'm a cabdriver....does my opinion of architecture equal yours simply because I have a general idea of what a building is?
    So...are you an architect, or a cabdriver?

  11. #1471
    I do wish people would stop feeding the trolls. I think we've made the point, we don't need to have multi-page refutals for every single one that picks up the baton.

  12. #1472
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    presumably not watching the show
    Have you watched the show?
    /s

  13. #1473
    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Have you watched the show?
    Yes.
    And I intend to continue.
    At the very least, we can cringelaugh at it with my fiancee.

  14. #1474
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the last 2 or 3 days, I was the one who's been constantly accused of either lying, or exaggerating, or speaking out of my behind due to presumably not watching the show, or flatout insulted. That is not to mention DEMANDS I take responsibility for the inquired crimes, a repentance, and a vow of silence.
    But I would rather we discuss the series instead of my humble self.
    So, She-Shrek.
    Jester Joe, what can you say about it? What do you find likeable about this show and why?
    The main character? The plot? The humor? What's your take on these three?
    What does any of this have to do with what I said even.

    I've already expressed my enjoyment of the show, why would I repeat it when there isn't even a new episode yet

  15. #1475
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    Who's to decide if my opinion is based on lies or ignorance?
    When you talk about things that aren't presented in the show...you're either lying or ignorant. It doesn't matter which.

    The same people who shit on anyone saying anything remotely negative?
    Nobody has "shit on" people saying negative things about the show if they weren't making shit up.

    I dare you to find a single quote of mine where I'm telling others they're wrong.
    How about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    The show is so bad it's agonizing to watch tbf, and I am starting to question if I might be a masochist to an extent.

    I mean come on, the jokes fall flat you might call them faceplanting.
    All the court scenes are cringe-inducing and no amount of cutting slack amends them.
    Blatant narrative about Jen being so very great, strong and independent female character reeks of Mary Sue -like scum the likes of Rey from SW trilogy.
    Manhating narrative is just that - manhating, it is not funny, it is not a message, just a narrative.
    The show is bad, which is sad, yet expectable to a certain extent considering its part of Marvel series, and Marvel series are a a disappointment in general.
    Seems to me you're telling every single person that enjoys the show that they are wrong. You're certainly not coming across as someone that wants to listen to an opposing viewpoint.

    I'm not comfortable debating Jimmy, who's doing coke and heroin makedonian style.
    But I think I see what you're getting at: not all the drugs are bad.
    Well, not all the MCU movies are bad, either.
    And you can't form an opinion which ones are good and which ones are bad until you've seen them yourself.

    What if the State was the Johnny?
    Do I still have to talk to the likes of Jenny?
    You're still not expressing your own opinion...just the one you were told.

    So...are you an architect, or a cabdriver?
    I am neither an architect nor a cabdriver.

    I am however someone that has watched the show...and that makes my opinion much more knowedgeable than someone that hasn't watched it at all...wouldn't you agree?
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2022-09-11 at 10:06 PM.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  16. #1476
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    What does any of this have to do with what I said even.

    I've already expressed my enjoyment of the show, why would I repeat it when there isn't even a new episode yet
    Oh, I just wanted to start a friendly discussion the matter with you, as to shift the current vibe from dunking on me.
    I'm sorry for not reading the whole 75 pages, it's just that I haven't seen your opinion, yet.

  17. #1477
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertoCarlos View Post
    Rofl did you actually read the first thing you found. He's telling fans not to worry about the reshoot and that the film will be as big as spiderman. The thing all actors say when they're not sold on the film thier promoting "it's a big fun movie!" anyway don't take my word for it I'll find the interview where he says what I said



    Cumberbatch: This is the second one of him on his own.

    Maron: So this is your movie.

    Cumberbatch: Yeah, well, yeah that’s part of the problem. There’s a lot of stuff going on in it. It’s like, “do I have a character arc in this? Is it working?” There’s great stuff for me to do in it. It’s very busy. It’s called The Multiverse of Madness and it’s bonkers.

    https://screenrant.com/doctor-strang...story-details/

    there we go disregard that as im sure you will, you little disingenuous posters you.
    right. so you quote earlier article where the movie was nowhere near finished now and somehow that supersedes his later interviews post reshoots? dude. you have GOT to at least try harder then that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    I do wish people would stop feeding the trolls. I think we've made the point, we don't need to have multi-page refutals for every single one that picks up the baton.
    you are indeed correct. mea culpa.

  18. #1478
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Nobody has "shit on" people saying negative things about the show if they weren't making shit up.
    In all honest, cannot agree.
    Perhaps it's just me, but all the posts with negative opinion here I've seen so far, would be instantly get jumped and dunked on for daring to say a iota of negative expression.
    Feel free to say I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    How about this:
    Seems to me you're telling every single person that enjoys the show that they are wrong. You're certainly not coming across as someone that wants to listen to an opposing viewpoint.
    What you assume is not what I said.
    I do not like the show so far, that should be abundantly clear. I am not demanding from anyone to change their mind and/or stop liking(or watching) the show.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    And you can't form an opinion which ones are good and which ones are bad until you've seen them yourself.
    So do I need to take heroin to find out that heroin is bad?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You're still not expressing your own opinion...just the one you were told.
    I think I could come up with a few examples of some things you don't have to have a personal opinion to call out as bad.
    Context might matter, on that we can agree due to resuscitating marijuhana example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    I am neither an architect nor a cabdriver.

    I am however someone that has watched the show...and that makes my opinion much more knowedgeable than someone that hasn't watched it at all...wouldn't you agree?
    I think it would be, at least to an extent.
    But what if we've both watched the show, and one's liking it and the other's not?

  19. #1479
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Your analogies continue to suck, all movies would have to be the same for it to be comparable. Do better.
    /s

  20. #1480
    Quote Originally Posted by Fortress of Arrogance View Post
    In all honest, cannot agree.
    Perhaps it's just me, but all the posts with negative opinion here I've seen so far, would be instantly get jumped and dunked on for daring to say a iota of negative expression.
    Feel free to say I'm wrong.
    I've seen people get called out for lies and ignorance. I haven't seen someone get called out for just not liking the show. Perhaps you can find an example where they were "dumped on" for simply not liking the show. And no, telling someone who does not like a show to stop watching the show is not "dumping on them".

    It's like that old joke:

    Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this
    Doctor: Then don't do that.

    If you find that watching the show is "agony"...just stop watching it.

    What you assume is not what I said.
    I do not like the show so far, that should be abundantly clear. I am not demanding from anyone to change their mind and/or stop liking(or watching) the show.
    That's exactly what you are saying. You are saying the show is objectively bad...not that it isn't to your taste...but just plain bad.

    I think I could come up with a few examples of some things you don't have to have a personal opinion to call out as bad.
    Context might matter, on that we can agree due to resuscitating marijuhana example.
    But can you call a TV show bad without ever watching it? You can say "That doesn't look interesting to me" and decide not to watch it...but you can't say anything about the actual quality of the show itself without first watching it.

    As an example: Morbius. I saaw the trailers and I thought "that looks like a terrible movie". I have heard, from people I trust, that Morbius is a terrible movie. But I haven't actually watched Morbius...so I don't actually know for myself whether or not Morbius is a terrible movie.

    I think it would be, at least to an extent.
    But what if we've both watched the show, and one's liking it and the other's not?
    Then we would be talking about something else entirely.

    To what "extent" would my opinion be less knowledgeable than someone that hasn't watched the show?
    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2022-09-11 at 10:42 PM.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

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