[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Biomega]

It feels wrong for the MCU.
It's like we went from semi-grounded to comic book instantly with zero explanation.

Where the fuck did Mr Immortal and Titania get their powers and why is everyone so cool about it?

That's just a natural consequence of an expanding universe. At some point you just do away with the constant explanations, and accept things.

That's how the comics work, too. There's so many superpowered people around at this point, it's WAY past the point of plausibility - and nobody really cares. It's a suspension of disbelief that's slowly worked its way into MCU mainstream. I'm sure we'll get an annoyed cab driver going "great, interdimensional space aliens invading AGAIN, now I'll never make my fare" any day now.

[paxen]

The main "problem" in this ep is the standard trope that powerlevels vary by story. Titania can punch Jen and it's fine, SheHulk can hit Titania hard enough to throw her pretty far without a big problem, Titania trips and that's the injury... meh.

This is actually not the case. Jen is a Hulk, and the only other example of a Hulk is...well, it's Hulk. It's canon that even puny Bruce is invulnerable. He tried to kill himself multiple times, and it never took. Hulks in their human forms are still hulks, smaller and weaker, but still extremely tough.

So that explains how Jen can take a punch from Titania (she's also totally shitfaced, which, again, is a state where you simply don't notice pain and injury as well, which would not let a normal person take a punch like Titania's but Jen is not normal at all).

Titania was also not injured, as pointed out earlier, but somebody already went over the teeth. She-Hulk and Titania going all out is a lot more violent than what we saw, which is backed up by neither of them suffering any damage at all beyond the dentures.

[Garymorilix]

Nah marvel don't need to keep explaining why every new character didn't help with Thanos. The excuse they came up with in eternals was omega lame. They didn't help because they didn't exist yet. Move on

I still prefer them using at least a one-liner excuse than literally pretending like it's nothing.

The Eternals excuse might be lame but if they didn't tackle this issue then it would've made exponentially less sense.
Which is what I am feeling with She-Hulk now.
Like even tho the series is more connected to the MCU than Moon Knight (with cameos and references), Moon Knight still feels like more of a part of the MCU.

- - - Updated - - -

That's just a natural consequence of an expanding universe. At some point you just do away with the constant explanations, and accept things.

That's how the comics work, too. There's so many superpowered people around at this point, it's WAY past the point of plausibility - and nobody really cares. It's a suspension of disbelief that's slowly worked its way into MCU mainstream. I'm sure we'll get an annoyed cab driver going "great, interdimensional space aliens invading AGAIN, now I'll never make my fare" any day now.

This is not an excuse, as I said, the MCU is semi-grounded unlike the comics.

While the movies and shows introduced us to many different types of creatures these random occurences were consistently kept as "rando alien in the background".
But when ON EARTH actual random humans have superpowers, or hell in the case of Mr Immortal who has been alive for centuries according to the show and openly using these powers, it does NOT fit the established universe.

Like in the case of Mr Immortal, how have we never heard of this guy? How was he never used in Stark / Shield / Hydra experiments? It makes zero sense to just throw him in for the universe we are dealing with.

The MCU is not the comics.
This is not an argument. It was based on comic arcs but much more grounded in our current reality (that's why most MCU movies are set in the IRL year they are released in).

[RobertoCarlos]

I still prefer them using at least a one-liner excuse than literally pretending like it's nothing.

The Eternals excuse might be lame but if they didn't tackle this issue then it would've made exponentially less sense.
Which is what I am feeling with She-Hulk now.
Like even tho the series is more connected to the MCU than Moon Knight (with cameos and references), Moon Knight still feels like more of a part of the MCU.

- - - Updated - - -



This is not an excuse, as I said, the MCU is semi-grounded unlike the comics.

While the movies and shows introduced us to many different types of creatures these random occurences were consistently kept as "rando alien in the background".
But when ON EARTH actual random humans have superpowers, or hell in the case of Mr Immortal who has been alive for centuries according to the show and openly using these powers, it does NOT fit the established universe.

Like in the case of Mr Immortal, how have we never heard of this guy? How was he never used in Stark / Shield / Hydra experiments? It makes zero sense to just throw him in for the universe we are dealing with.

The MCU is not the comics.
This is not an argument. It was based on comic arcs but much more grounded in our current reality (that's why most MCU movies are set in the IRL year they are released in).

I Dont think it's making the content any better "it's OK half the galaxy was wiped out because it didn't involve a specific type of monster" isn't really worth the screen time it takes up. If you don't have a good answer ignore it imo

- - - Updated - - -

Uhh, no.

First, there are plenty of core cast in She-Hulk.

Second, plenty of sitcoms don't get filmed in front of a live audience, especially these days. They're not even filmed in a studio where that would even be feasible. Plus, there's animated sitcoms, where that idea doesn't even make sense as a concept. Even the use of a laugh track isn't an expectation with sitcoms.

You're making things up that haven't ever been true. The "live studio audience" had a heyday, but was never a requirement or expectation from a sitcom; hell, the idea of sitcoms originated on radio, not television.

Radios innately have a live audience as that is the format.

It would look rather silly having a live audience as actors walk around in cgi suits on podiums but hey that goes back to the lack of cohesive vision from the start where the show is trying to be too many things and isn't tight/good in any one area

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

This is actually not the case. Jen is a Hulk, and the only other example of a Hulk is...well, it's Hulk. It's canon that even puny Bruce is invulnerable. He tried to kill himself multiple times, and it never took. Hulks in their human forms are still hulks, smaller and weaker, but still extremely tough.

So that explains how Jen can take a punch from Titania (she's also totally shitfaced, which, again, is a state where you simply don't notice pain and injury as well, which would not let a normal person take a punch like Titania's but Jen is not normal at all).

Titania was also not injured, as pointed out earlier, but somebody already went over the teeth. She-Hulk and Titania going all out is a lot more violent than what we saw, which is backed up by neither of them suffering any damage at all beyond the dentures.

Also, just to add on, it's very likely that Titania was holding back when she hit Jen. She wasn't there to murder Jen...she wanted to humiliate She-Hulk. That is a thing people always seem to forget...that just because you are super-strong...you don't have to put 100% force behind every hit. Spider-Man, as an example, almost never uses his full strength except against guys he knows are in or above his own weight class...and even then...it's rare.

There's an issue of Spider-Man where Doc Ock has brain-swapped with Spider-Man...and he punches Scorpion's jaw off:



And that's Scorpion, who is canonically at least as strong and tough as Spider-Man...if not stronger and tougher...and Peter never hit him hard enough to do that.

Octavious says himself that, even after all the times he fought Spider-Man as Doc Ock, he had no idea Spider-Man was that strong... because Peter never hit him that hard.

[Endus]

But when ON EARTH actual random humans have superpowers, or hell in the case of Mr Immortal who has been alive for centuries according to the show and openly using these powers, it does NOT fit the established universe.

It could, easily. For all we know, he's Inhuman. He could have the X-gene, and the moment they bring up the X-gene officially, it'll probably have the same pre-homo-sapiens origin point, meaning there's always been mutants. Not noticing a thing doesn't mean it hasn't existed. Beyond Inhumans, there could be alien DNA (Star Lord) or extradimensional DNA (Ms. Marvel, though that's not all), or an experiment gone wrong (myriad); there's already so many ways to get powers in the MCU that calling this out as a problem seems ridiculous. Maybe Titania tried a new holistic hair-strengthening gel that had magical properties and gave her super strength. We don't know, but it also doesn't matter.

Like in the case of Mr Immortal, how have we never heard of this guy? How was he never used in Stark / Shield / Hydra experiments? It makes zero sense to just throw him in for the universe we are dealing with.

He literally stated that outright. He's very proficient at killing himself and making a new life as a new person. To the point that mild annoyances with his current wife would see him kill himself to get out of the marriage. That's how he's got that many ex-wives all suing him. He's had at least that many identities in the time frame of their collective lives.

There's nothing else about him that's surprising, and this is the first time he's been "caught", apparently. Why would Hydra or any other organization know he even existed?

[Ivanstone]

This is not an excuse, as I said, the MCU is semi-grounded unlike the comics.

While the movies and shows introduced us to many different types of creatures these random occurences were consistently kept as "rando alien in the background".
But when ON EARTH actual random humans have superpowers, or hell in the case of Mr Immortal who has been alive for centuries according to the show and openly using these powers, it does NOT fit the established universe.

Like in the case of Mr Immortal, how have we never heard of this guy? How was he never used in Stark / Shield / Hydra experiments? It makes zero sense to just throw him in for the universe we are dealing with.

The MCU is not the comics.
This is not an argument. It was based on comic arcs but much more grounded in our current reality (that's why most MCU movies are set in the IRL year they are released in).

Mr Immortal is a complete coward. Whatever his origin might be, it’s not relevant to the MCU at large because it’s assumed that he spent the years/decades/centuries hiding from anything vaguely threatening.

Titania presently has an undefined origin. The only thing for certain is she had powers before Jen revealed hers. Since the character is a parody of vacuous social media influencers we can safely assume that even if she had powers before Thanos’s arrival she wouldn’t have used them to help.

Your pretty much whining about stuff not being immediately spoon fed to you. If your going to bitch about petty bullshit maybe you should do yourself and everyone else a favour by waiting until all the episodes have been released.

[Endus]

Radios innately have a live audience as that is the format.

Not that they're performed in front of, they don't. Radio listeners don't count. It's live studio audience.

And again; the idea that you need a live studio audience would mean The Simpsons isn't a sitcom, nor is Modern Family. And both of those are obviously sitcoms.

[Biomega]

But when ON EARTH actual random humans have superpowers, or hell in the case of Mr Immortal who has been alive for centuries according to the show and openly using these powers, it does NOT fit the established universe.

Like in the case of Mr Immortal, how have we never heard of this guy? How was he never used in Stark / Shield / Hydra experiments? It makes zero sense to just throw him in for the universe we are dealing with.

If you really want to get deep into the plausibility of things, it's fairly trivial to explain away someone like Mr. Immortal.

Heck, this seems to be the first time he's actually being sued for it - so chances are that while he may way have been around for centuries, he wasn't open and notorious with his powers during that time. His disappearing acts seem to have worked just fine until very recently, when he quite evidently stopped giving a shit and just does it in public. Which could be not in spite of the MCU's events but BECAUSE of them. I.e., in a world where we now have very public knowledge of superpowers, he felt like he doesn't have to be careful about his own powers anymore and can just do it willy-nilly and wherever.

As for Titania, who knows what's going on. In the comics, I believe Titania got her powers only later in life - so it's not unreasonable to think that might be the same case here, which eliminates most conflicts. Or maybe she's had her powers for longer, but like Mr. Immortal she simply chose to hide them from the public and is "out" only now that everyone knows superpowers are a thing. Maybe she's connected to the people after Jen's blood, and we'll find out. But in any case, it's likely there'll be very easy diegetic explanations for these problems.

[Fabinas]

That's completely subjective. As is calling Jen "incompetent", which is a pretty harsh term to use for someone who's won most cases we've seen on the show.

There's also legal shows where the lawyer being incompetent is what makes it funny. Say, Harvey Birdman, Attorney at Law. Competence is in no way a requirement for something being funny. That's purely subjective.


Nothing "is" fun. It's only received as fun by particular audiences; and, conversely, not perceived as such by others. Many people find this show fun, including the legal parts. If you do not, that's unfortunate; but it doesn't mean others don't find it fun just because you don't.

If you want to critique the quality of the show, by all means, do that. But "it isn't fun" isn't a critique, it's just a preference. Those are fairly worthless when it comes to convincing others in a discussion.


Says who? This show does something different. This CHARACTER does something different, and always has. She-Hulk was never the same as the Hulk just with a different gender. It was always about parodying the genre in a self-aware way. Breaking the fourth wall. Doing silly shit. Just because something is part of the same creative universe doesn't mean it has to be the same as every other series set in that universe.

Complaining that a show that wants to do something different isn't the same as everything before it is a bit of an absurd premise.


But there is. Jen is trying to come to terms with her newfound powers and second persona. That's the arc right there. Or what other thing do you mean by this?


First off, whether or not She-Hulk ACTUALLY "fails immensely" at doing what you describe is very much up for grabs; you can't just unequivocally assert that, much less for an incomplete first season vs. shows that ran for close to a decade.

But more importantly: why does other shows doing X matter for this show anyway? Not every show has to do the same thing. It's not a requirement of any comedy show to "touch menial, everyday subjects in their own original way" (even though you could VERY MUCH argue that this show ABSOLUTELY DOES THAT, too). That's your own, arbitrary definition. Nothing more.


Like, say, the Wrecking Crew? You think they were "bad" only because Jen is a woman? If Jen had been a man and nothing else about that situation was different, would they come across as any less "bad"? What about the stage magician and his ilk? What did gender have to do with their sleazy self-satisfaction?

This seems like a very conveniently phrased overgeneralization to me.


Like the whole deal with Titania and her trademark? Did Jen prevail there only because she was up vs. an "underwhelming man"? Or are you just conveniently ignoring all the times where your argument doesn't work?


Right. I don't want to misunderstand this, so could you just list for us the times where Jen has taken "revenge against men" in this show, please. Just so I know.

I said "fun" &"cool", not "funny". Stop changing goalposts. I don't enjoy a legal show where the lawyer has absolutely no grasp at their cases. Things go her way because the script demands it, not because she forces things or is smart to guide them there.

Oh, and her 2nd and 3rd "wins" were about stuff we knew already the truth. It was all about presenting that in court. Sorry if i don't find that a particularly engaging legal show. You do you, though.

I am dissecting this show, because it does try to be everything at once and it fails. Again, immensely. Tries to be a "legal" "superhero" "sitcom" and fails to be each and every one of those, and all three at the same time, for the reasons i posted above.

Trying to do something different doesn't mean there shouldn't be an arc for She-Hulk. I am amazed you cannot understand that one of the purposes of this show is to get the audience to know She-Hulk as a superhero in the MCU. So there has to be a course for her superhero side. There isn't a coherent one. Still, but doesn't look good, already.

Jen trying to come to terms with her new found She-Hulk persona is the sitcom part. It's the character part. I am talking strictly about her superhero self. Where does she fit in the MCU.

The only thing that the show has about this is the attempted theft of her blood samples and has been largely ignored for the most part. We should be having more hints about who's after that and if Titania is a part of this.

I am also amazed you're arguing against the purpose of hero introductory shows. Yeah, they all have the same core. They present the heros, how they gain their powers, how they learn to control them and all that happens within the frame of a story arc that demands them to use their powers. See Ms Marvel. Where's the arc for She Hulk?

Jen didn't win the copyright case. Mallory did, with Jen's information about using the She-Hulk persona in the online date app. And the male lawyer there was just... there. There was no substantial legal conflict for him to lose. He just presented his clients side. This doesn't fit with the "parade of underwhelming men" quote, him being one. If you do find where that quote was directed to, tell me so. Because it was just inserted there as a woke line, and nothing more.

I am not talking about Jen taking revenge against men. I am talking about the stance the writer crew uses for their feminist lines and stories. It was in response in your "Even if this was swerving the other way a little, what's the problem with that?" quote.

You're again misinterpreting me and that's the third time you do that. The first i ignored, the other two are noted here. You don't have such a history here, but it seems things have changed.

[Endus]

Trying to do something different doesn't mean there shouldn't be an arc for She-Hulk. I am amazed you cannot understand that one of the purposes of this show is to get the audience to know She-Hulk as a superhero in the MCU. So there has to be a course for her superhero side. There isn't a coherent one. Still, but doesn't look good, already.

She has a clear arc. You're willfully ignoring it. She's coming to terms with how being a Hulk means she can't ever live a "normal" life. That's the conclusion she'll reach by the end of the show.
As for her "superhero side", there isn't a separate side. It's one person.

Jen trying to come to terms with her new found She-Hulk persona is the sitcom part. It's the character part. I am talking strictly about her superhero self. Where does she fit in the MCU.

That's the question the show is literally asking, and which Jen is struggling to answer. You just described the central arc while bemoaning the lack of said arc. That's spectacular.

[Fabinas]

This is actually not the case. Jen is a Hulk, and the only other example of a Hulk is...well, it's Hulk. It's canon that even puny Bruce is invulnerable. He tried to kill himself multiple times, and it never took. Hulks in their human forms are still hulks, smaller and weaker, but still extremely tough.

So that explains how Jen can take a punch from Titania (she's also totally shitfaced, which, again, is a state where you simply don't notice pain and injury as well, which would not let a normal person take a punch like Titania's but Jen is not normal at all).

Titania was also not injured, as pointed out earlier, but somebody already went over the teeth. She-Hulk and Titania going all out is a lot more violent than what we saw, which is backed up by neither of them suffering any damage at all beyond the dentures.

Hulks in their normal human form are humans. If they were hulks, Bruce wouldn't have bled and transformed Jen. And don't start "but the inhibitor...". That thing was supposed to control the transformation, not remove hulk bonuses from his human form, if they existed, which they didn;t.

[Endus]

Hulks in their normal human form are humans. If they were hulks, Bruce wouldn't have bled and transformed Jen. And don't start "but the inhibitor...". That thing was supposed to control the transformation, not remove hulk bonuses from his human form, if they existed, which they didn;t.

You're also still ignoring that Titania wasn't trying to hurt Jen. Not beyond "annoy her into Hulking out" levels, at least. The idea that Jen should have had a cracked skull is completely without basis. This is a spat, not a serious no-holds-barred to-the-death fight.

[Fabinas]

She has a clear arc. You're willfully ignoring it. She's coming to terms with how being a Hulk means she can't ever live a "normal" life. That's the conclusion she'll reach by the end of the show.
As for her "superhero side", there isn't a separate side. It's one person.



That's the question the show is literally asking, and which Jen is struggling to answer. You just described the central arc while bemoaning the lack of said arc. That's spectacular.

You're ignoring the basic premise that Hulks are superpowered people and the fact alone does things to them and their life. Bruce said so in the first episode trying to convince her that she should forget being a lawyer cause she's a superhero, now.

So far the show doesn't show us where SHE-HULK (not Jen) belongs in the general MCU story. That's what i am talking about. The moment SHE-HULK decides that she will act as a SUPERHERO in this setting, parallel to her life as the lawyer. The first Titania conflict doesn;t count, as she was pushed to do that by her paralegal.

[Biomega]

I said "fun" &"cool", not "funny". Stop changing goalposts.

And that makes ZERO difference, because everything I said applies in exactly the same way. "Fun & cool" is in no way less subjective than "funny".

I don't enjoy a legal show where the lawyer has absolutely no grasp at their cases.

Cool. You're free to dislike this show. That doesn't mean "this show is bad", it just means "I don't like this show". If you pretend that the two are the same thing, that's the problem right there.

I am dissecting this show

You're stating all the things YOU don't like about it. Which is fine, just not very useful to anyone else. That's all people are saying. Nobody is infringing on your preference, they're just pointing out that talking about your preferences in a public forum is just... not that interesting. You don't like the show. Understood. Now what? We congratulate you on having an opinion, and move on.

If you want to dissect and actually provide something USEFUL, it'll have to be more than "this isn't fun & cool". We're happy to hear arguments, but they need to be actual arguments.

Trying to do something different doesn't mean there shouldn't be an arc for She-Hulk. I am amazed you cannot understand that one of the purposes of this show is to get the audience to know She-Hulk as a superhero in the MCU.

And I'm amazed that you still say "there isn't an arc" after I laid out THE arc of the show for you; and asked you to clarify if that's not what you meant. So either you agree that there actually is an arc, or you just aren't interested in clarifying what you mean by "an arc". Or you, well, didn't read what I said in my first reply. Awkward.

I am talking strictly about her superhero self. Where does she fit in the MCU.

What do you mean by that? What does "fit in the MCU" mean?

I am also amazed you're arguing against the purpose of hero introductory shows. Yeah, they all have the same core. They present the heros, how they gain their powers, how they learn to control them and all that happens within the frame of a story arc that demands them to use their powers. See Ms Marvel. Where's the arc for She Hulk?

I again am not sure what you mean by "arc" here. This is a sitcom. It's not a drama series with a singular, overarching narrative. It's episodic in nature, and has been from the start. That's what the show wants to be, and that's what it delivers. The fact that YOU want it to be something else is beside the point. I don't know where this "hero introductory show" thing is coming from - that's not an established genre or template, and even if it was, there's nothing that says a show that's about a character breaking all the narrative rules (as She-Hulk has always been, even in the comics) would have to obey that.

You're basically just saying "this show isn't like the other shows!", which is a ridiculous take for a character who's entire thing from the get-go was "this isn't like everything else".

I am not talking about Jen taking revenge against men. I am talking about the stance the writer crew uses for their feminist lines and stories.

Give examples for that, then. You throw a lot of generalizations out as if they were self-evident. Give actual examples, please, and explain how they support your claim.

You're again misinterpreting me and that's the third time you do that. The first i ignored, the other two are noted here. You don't have such a history here, but it seems things have changed.

It helps if you're clear about what you're saying. You give us nothing but vague, general statements with no explanation or justification. If someone misinterprets that, explain what you mean instead. Don't just let it go and then whine that nobody understands you.

[Fabinas]

You're also still ignoring that Titania wasn't trying to hurt Jen. Not beyond "annoy her into Hulking out" levels, at least. The idea that Jen should have had a cracked skull is completely without basis. This is a spat, not a serious no-holds-barred to-the-death fight.

Wow. Titania broke the court wall, but she softly suckered punch Jen. This is laughable.

- - - Updated - - -

And that makes ZERO difference, because everything I said applies in exactly the same way. "Fun & cool" is in no way less subjective than "funny".


Cool. You're free to dislike this show. That doesn't mean "this show is bad", it just means "I don't like this show". If you pretend that the two are the same thing, that's the problem right there.


You're stating all the things YOU don't like about it. Which is fine, just not very useful to anyone else. That's all people are saying. Nobody is infringing on your preference, they're just pointing out that talking about your preferences in a public forum is just... not that interesting. You don't like the show. Understood. Now what? We congratulate you on having an opinion, and move on.

If you want to dissect and actually provide something USEFUL, it'll have to be more than "this isn't fun & cool". We're happy to hear arguments, but they need to be actual arguments.


And I'm amazed that you still say "there isn't an arc" after I laid out THE arc of the show for you; and asked you to clarify if that's not what you meant. So either you agree that there actually is an arc, or you just aren't interested in clarifying what you mean by "an arc". Or you, well, didn't read what I said in my first reply. Awkward.


What do you mean by that? What does "fit in the MCU" mean?


I again am not sure what you mean by "arc" here. This is a sitcom. It's not a drama series with a singular, overarching narrative. It's episodic in nature, and has been from the start. That's what the show wants to be, and that's what it delivers. The fact that YOU want it to be something else is beside the point. I don't know where this "hero introductory show" thing is coming from - that's not an established genre or template, and even if it was, there's nothing that says a show that's about a character breaking all the narrative rules (as She-Hulk has always been, even in the comics) would have to obey that.

You're basically just saying "this show isn't like the other shows!", which is a ridiculous take for a character who's entire thing from the get-go was "this isn't like everything else".


Give examples for that, then. You throw a lot of generalizations out as if they were self-evident. Give actual examples, please, and explain how they support your claim.


It helps if you're clear about what you're saying. You give us nothing but vague, general statements with no explanation or justification. If someone misinterprets that, explain what you mean instead. Don't just let it go and then whine that nobody understands you.

I will not bother to elaborate anymore, as you keep picking stuff i said and ignore the rest, attributing it all to "opinions". It seems you do not want to discuss, and i have better things to do in my Saturday night. You can claim the internetz pointz if you wish, but in this thread you are intellectually dishonest against me. Have a nice night.

[Biomega]

Wow. Titania broke the court wall, but she softly suckered punch Jen. This is laughable.

Are you serious? People destroy property with vicious intensity all the time, yet somehow manage to NOT kill people they're in a brawl with. What kind of an argument is this.

I will not bother to elaborate anymore, as you keep picking stuff i said and ignore the rest, attributing it all to "opinions"

If you disagree, support that position. Half your post was some variant of "I don't like this" - what is that BUT an opinion? If you can't provide any actual arguments, that's not my fault. You want people to not dismiss something as an opinion, then support it with more than your preference. It's as simple as that.

[Svifnymr]

Are you serious? People destroy property with vicious intensity all the time, yet somehow manage to NOT kill people they're in a brawl with. What kind of an argument is this.

That was my comment yesterday, that the impact/ damage is more plot driven than consistent. Like when someone gets hit hard enough to smash the ground around them, but isn't hurt, just winded. It's just silly at times, but it's a pretty consistent part of the superhero genre I think.

If you disagree, support that position. Half your post was some variant of "I don't like this" - what is that BUT an opinion? If you can't provide any actual arguments, that's not my fault. You want people to not dismiss something as an opinion, then support it with more than your preference. It's as simple as that.

Almost everything is going to be opinions in a thread like this, so dismissing discussion because it's an opinion usually just means we shouldn't be having any sort of discussion at all. "This show is bad" is the same as "I think this show is bad", and casting aside opinions and trying to pick them apart might be what drives this forum these days, but it doesn't really add much overall.

Not that Marvel is browsing this forum to see what folks thought could be improved with SheHulk of course, but it's pretty pointless at times. I'm just catching up on a bunch of things lately since Disney+ had a sale, SheHulk is probably below average for me, but certainly not the worst. Boba Fett takes that honor, though it's not Marvel, it bugged me enough to transcend.

[Biomega]

Almost everything is going to be opinions in a thread like this, so dismissing discussion because it's an opinion usually just means we shouldn't be having any sort of discussion at all.

There's a difference between opinion as meaning "subjective preference" and opinion as meaning "the sum of my positions on a subject". What I'm objecting to is the former, not the latter, which I generally don't call opinion to begin with but something like position or argument(s).

Someone could say their "opinion" of chocolate ice cream is that it sucks because it tastes bad, and someone could say their "opinion" of capital punishment is that it's wrong because the irrevocability of a punishment is incommensurate with fallible verdicts. But just because you used the word "opinion" to refer to both statements there doesn't mean they operate the same way, or have the same argumentative basis. Even though in both cases it takes the form of <judgement> because <reason>.

"This show is bad" is the same as "I think this show is bad"

It really isn't. We TREAT the two as largely interchangeable because we ASSUME that what someone means when they say "X is bad" is that this is their own personal preference. The problem is that it's couched in terminology that occludes that fact, and is very often USED as though it wasn't just a preference, but a larger (and thus non-personally applicable) argument.

But in any event, I'm not usually a stickler for formulation; I look at structure. In fact I very much understand that when someone comes in and goes "X is bad!" that is a personal preference - I simply point out as much. And, consequently, dismiss the argumentative value of the statement. Because it has none, being a preference and all.

If people want an actual discussion, they'll have to provide actual arguments. In whatever form and language, as long as they're properly justified and reasoned.

[Endus]

You're ignoring the basic premise that Hulks are superpowered people and the fact alone does things to them and their life. Bruce said so in the first episode trying to convince her that she should forget being a lawyer cause she's a superhero, now.

I'm not ignoring it. The show obviously isn't. What the hell are you even talking about?

So far the show doesn't show us where SHE-HULK (not Jen) belongs in the general MCU story. That's what i am talking about. The moment SHE-HULK decides that she will act as a SUPERHERO in this setting, parallel to her life as the lawyer. The first Titania conflict doesn;t count, as she was pushed to do that by her paralegal.

There is no "general MCU story", in the first place. It's a setting. In which stories take place. Those stories don't have to connect to anything, other than by virtue of being in that setting. Even though She-Hulk clearly does, despite you claiming otherwise.

You're expecting something the show has absolutely no narrative duty to provide. That means you have unreasonable expectations. Not that the show is "bad".

- - - Updated - - -

Wow. Titania broke the court wall, but she softly suckered punch Jen. This is laughable.

The same way I could break a board in a martial arts class, and then punch my buddy playfully in the arm and not break his arm.

What world are you living in where people can't modify the force they deliver with a punch?