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  1. #1841
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I am claiming that there are millions of competent writers out there, that could have delivered a show worth watching, Jessica Gao isn't one of them and she does not deserve all the money she is getting for this train wreck. She also doesn't deserve your undying loyalty. Her writing is not simply bad, it is clearly lazy on a level that is inexcusable.
    I don't know what it is about this show that makes you abandon any kind of sanity to defend it's abyssmal quality, but I am sure Gao is having a good laugh everytime someone is defending her.
    I haven't watched this show (haven't watched any Marvel show since Loki, actually), but Jessica Gao is a very talented comedy writer with Silicon Valley and Rick and Morty credits to her name. She wrote "Pickle Rick," one of the most famous R&M episodes, and is an executive story editor for the entire show.

    Don't know about you, but that's a pretty decent resume, those are two of the best comedies of the past decade.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, as an aside, Better Call Saul is an amazing show, but the idea that it in any way realistically depicts how competent law is practiced is fucking hilarious.

    Real law, practiced competently, is 1) extremely boring, 2) extremely long-winded, 3) extremely protracted over literally years, even a criminal proceeding can take a year, 4) and has lots of breaks where lawyers argue in side rooms about the definitions of things.

    Best part is that most law is practiced pretty incompetently. Lawyers have to rely on massive amounts of research in each case to simply reach competence, because the training teaches you to approach each case as if it is novel (and they usually are). Those who don't put in the elbow grease (which is a lot of them) or don't have the resources to put in the elbow grease, often fail - but since both sides fail pretty regularly, even incompetent lawyers can win fairly regularly, because the system doesn't really care about what the right legal theory is, it cares about which lawyer sounded more convincing.

  2. #1842
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I haven't watched this show (haven't watched any Marvel show since Loki, actually), but Jessica Gao is a very talented comedy writer with Silicon Valley and Rick and Morty credits to her name. She wrote "Pickle Rick," one of the most famous R&M episodes, and is an executive story editor for the entire show.

    Don't know about you, but that's a pretty decent resume, those are two of the best comedies of the past decade.
    I’d say it’s a very valid point that 2/3 of the way through the show, I’m not 100% convinced we’ll get any character growth as some in this topic seem to be expecting. You can’t expect shallow sitcom stories and some deep character growth hand in hand. Well you can, but I’ve yet to see evidence this show can pull it off. Maslany and Gonzaga are carrying this show hard because they’re great, but the material seems sub-par. The journey of Jennifer Walters realizing her life is best when she’s big and green ALL the time could make for some interesting drama, but if the show is pure sitcom, this whole revelation and soul searching will likely end with a joke and a wink to the camera.

  3. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by SavoirFaire View Post
    I’d say it’s a very valid point that 2/3 of the way through the show, I’m not 100% convinced we’ll get any character growth as some in this topic seem to be expecting. You can’t expect shallow sitcom stories and some deep character growth hand in hand. Well you can, but I’ve yet to see evidence this show can pull it off. Maslany and Gonzaga are carrying this show hard because they’re great, but the material seems sub-par. The journey of Jennifer Walters realizing her life is best when she’s big and green ALL the time could make for some interesting drama, but if the show is pure sitcom, this whole revelation and soul searching will likely end with a joke and a wink to the camera.
    We've already got character growth. So the idea that there won't be any is obviously untrue. Is it gonna be a come-to-Jesus overhaul of Walters' personality? Fuck no. But these things basically never are. Look at the first Iron Man. Tony learns very little. Sure, he decides he's not gonna sell weapons any more, but he absolutely continues building weapons, for his own personal use. That continues to bite him in the ass for the remaining Iron Man films and into Age of Ultron. Now, sure, he has a huge amount of growth over his entire character arc, but in that first film? Not really a huge shift. And most of that was figured out by the time he built a suit in a cave with a box of scraps.

    You can say the same about most films, taken by themselves. In films which even have character development in any meaningful sense, because plenty of highly-regarded classics essentially don't. Indiana Jones at the end of Crystal Skull is pretty much exactly the same dude as he was in Raiders. Even married the girl from Raiders, who he'd already had a relationship with before that movie started.

    Jen's still in the middle of finding her feet being a Hulk and how that's gonna change her life. Character development suggests she should reach that achievement by the finale episode, possibly close to the last scenes in that episode. Expecting more than that . . . I just don't know what basis anyone has to do so. The show certainly hasn't implied anything deeper is necessary.


  4. #1844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Wow. Titania broke the court wall, but she softly suckered punch Jen. This is laughable.
    She wanted to fight She-Hulk. Killing Jen while she wasn’t transformed wouldn’t have made that happen.

  5. #1845
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    She wanted to fight She-Hulk. Killing Jen while she wasn’t transformed wouldn’t have made that happen.
    There's also the question how the entire Jen-Shehulk dynamic works. Bruce Banner shot himself in the head, which simply caused him to turn into Hulk. Decent chance that Titania pulled her hit, because she didn't know that.

  6. #1846
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    All this is your take on the scene. Your interpretation. Sending a human body across a distance demands a certain amount of force. The first hit in the garden sent Jen flying. This, by laws of physics, can't be a suckerpunch. It sent a huge amount of kinetic energy to a human skeleton and cranium. Those should have broken to bits and pieces.

    So unless someone comes out from marvel and explains this, it is bullshit. We are already deep into MCU territory and noone has ever explained if and why Hulk(s) are more resilient in their human forms. On the contrary, we have a Banner splattering his blood over his cousin, transforming her.

    That's why the show has absolutely no consistency on its power levels. And don't get started with the obvious "But that's how MCU and comics work", "Don't expect real life physics in your superhero genre" etc. It's still shit.


    *** EDIT***

    Editing this because i rewatched the scene. IT WAS THE FIRST PUNCH THAT SENT JEN FLYING SOME 5-10 METERS FAR. IN HUMAN FORM.

    This show sucks.
    Last edited by Fabinas; 2022-09-25 at 08:34 AM.
    /spit@Blizzard

  7. #1847
    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    I haven't watched this show (haven't watched any Marvel show since Loki, actually), but Jessica Gao is a very talented comedy writer with Silicon Valley and Rick and Morty credits to her name. She wrote "Pickle Rick," one of the most famous R&M episodes, and is an executive story editor for the entire show.
    Cool. But just because she can write other things does not mean that she has done well on this one, or that she has not been lazy with this one, because she knew that all critics could be shut up with the "misogynist" misdirect.
    Take Peter Jackson. Before LoTR he made a horrendous C-Movie with zombies called Braindead. We can't just say that because of this, LoTR is a terrible line of movies and he is a terrible writer. That would be a prejudice. We can only judge the movies if we have seen them.
    Yet somehow you believe you know that I (and thousands of people around the world that make the same arguments) am wrong about She-Hulk, despite not watching it. Maybe if you had actually watched it, you would know what a catastrophe it is, instead of judging me on your preconceived notions that Gao cannot do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by eschatological View Post
    Also, as an aside, Better Call Saul is an amazing show, but the idea that it in any way realistically depicts how competent law is practiced is fucking hilarious.
    Duh. Obviously it is not 100% realistic, but in comparison Saul is so much more realistic and that does not stem from the fact that one is a superhero show and the other is not. It stems from the fact that Vince Gillian and his team have not decided to write a lawyer show without doing the research for it, while Jessica Gao did exactly that. And then she even had the nerve to proudly proclaim her lazyness on the internet, assured that she is untouchable anyway.

    Again if you wouldn't judge my argument without even seeing the show it is made about, maybe you would realize that there are children out there that could write more realistic court and law scenes then this writer is paid obscene amounts of money to write. And again, it is not her incompetence that annoys me. It is her lazyness. She just needed to hire a real lawyer or an adviser to help with those scenes.
    But she knew she didn't have to, because no matter what she does she can just call all critics "incels" and "misogynists" and as such their critique does not matter anymore. It's a great system for lazy people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    There's also the question how the entire Jen-Shehulk dynamic works. Bruce Banner shot himself in the head, which simply caused him to turn into Hulk. Decent chance that Titania pulled her hit, because she didn't know that.
    A punch that sends a person flying meters away. is. not. pulled. A humans face should be mush from such a blow.

    Jen should either be dead or if we go by Hulk rules, should have transformed instantly in reaction to heavy physical trauma. Like when Bruce jumped on the Bifrost and went splatt, only for Hulk to stand up.

    That is what I mean with Gao not understanding a Hulk show.

    Also, could someone pleeeease explain to me what the heck is going on in Titanias head? When she first met Jen, she was knocked out with a single punch. How does she figure that she can win a fight with her?
    Especially if she wants it to be fair. She has no strategy, no secret weapon, she doesn't even take a hostage despite tons of Jen's "friends" standing around. How did she figure this would end if not with her total and massive humiliation infront of dozens of people with smartphones.

    Is this really the only was we can prop up Jen? By making all her enemies stupid as bread? How about making Jen competent instead... like "Hey, maybe we should not Hulk-Out in the middle of all the wedding guests, we might accidentally break people"

  8. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    A punch that sends a person flying meters away. is. not. pulled. A humans face should be mush from such a blow.

    Jen should either be dead or if we go by Hulk rules, should have transformed instantly in reaction to heavy physical trauma. Like when Bruce jumped on the Bifrost and went splatt, only for Hulk to stand up.

    That is what I mean with Gao not understanding a Hulk show.

    Also, could someone pleeeease explain to me what the heck is going on in Titanias head? When she first met Jen, she was knocked out with a single punch. How does she figure that she can win a fight with her?
    Especially if she wants it to be fair. She has no strategy, no secret weapon, she doesn't even take a hostage despite tons of Jen's "friends" standing around. How did she figure this would end if not with her total and massive humiliation infront of dozens of people with smartphones.

    Is this really the only was we can prop up Jen? By making all her enemies stupid as bread? How about making Jen competent instead... like "Hey, maybe we should not Hulk-Out in the middle of all the wedding guests, we might accidentally break people"
    No man, this has not been considered at all in the MCU. The whole "superhero responsibility and how they should use their powers". It's not like there were those.... can't remember the name... Choc-a-pic ? Shokolade? ...aaaa, Sokovia Accords. A legal document restricting Superpower use, mustn't have been read by a lawyer with a direct blood connection (pun intended) with one of the "Avongers", who (the lawyer), strangely, is now the head of Superhuman law department in a huge law firm.

    Hey, she can restrict herself not hurting people in a superpowered brawl, because she: 1. "Tousled with her hulk cousin", 2. Knows restrain from the years of patriarchial oppression and catcalling she has survived... barely.

    And that is NOT directed at the character. it's to show how shitty the writing of this show is.
    /spit@Blizzard

  9. #1849
    Quote Originally Posted by Santti View Post
    Hint: It's right in the name of the show.
    *Squints eyes*

    Attorneys...

  10. #1850
    I can't believe we're still arguing the same tired shit from early episodes about men being shit on and the accuracy of any legal proceedings. Do people watch Suits and genuinely think that's how things go in and out of court?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    This show sucks.
    Then stop watching it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    a horrendous C-Movie with zombies called Braindead.
    Braindead is amazing, how dare you.

  11. #1851
    Latest Marvel News: ‘She-Hulk’ drops its most disappointing episode yet as season 2 hopes rise for another MCU series

    Well, that’s what we get for raising our hopes. After last week’s episode ended with a major promise that Daredevil was coming next time, this Thursday’s She-Hulk: Attorney at Law installment decided to troll audiences by offering up a “self-contained wedding episode” instead of the superhero team-up we were all psyched for. In happier news, the chances of another MCU series getting a sophomore run just shot up.

    We all know that Marvel lovers are completely reasonable and laid-back when it comes to Daredevil, so they’ve been totally chill about the fact that he was nowhere to be seen in this week’s She-Hulk.
    Yeah, and Iron Fist is more popular than Iron Man.
    No, of course Twitter was livid after episode six came out and it’s fair to say that the majority found this to be the most disappointing chapter of the season. Although you have to give the show’s team credit for pulling off such a ballsy move. They definitely knew the backlash they were going to incite with this one.

    We know Kamala will be back in next summer’s The Marvels, but it seems her adventures will continue after that in a second run of her very own show.

    Not content with just denying us Daredevil, She-Hulk episode six also quietly wiped out any opportunity for a comic book super-team to ever enter the MCU. This week’s kooky new client for Jen’s lawfirm was Mr. Immortal, an old dude who keeps walking out (of windows) on his spouses. He’s actually a total rehaul of a teen hero who was supposed to appear in the New Warriors TV show that Freeform was developing a few years ago, so don’t hold your breath for that property to get the Born Again treatment.

  12. #1852
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    (and thousands of people around the world that make the same arguments)
    Thank you for confirming that you're all a bunch of dopes that parrot the same argument.

  13. #1853
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    a major promise that Daredevil was coming next time
    Lost me here, tbh. There was no "promise," that's bullshit expectations based on seeing nothing but a helmet as an easter egg. Nothing in that small scene says "Hey, Daredevil is definitely coming next week, guys!"

    He's getting his own, longer, series soon. I don't see the issue. Fans are their own worst enemies.

    Are you watching She-Hulk, Shadowferal? How are you finding it?

  14. #1854
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Lost me here, tbh. There was no "promise," that's bullshit expectations based on seeing nothing but a helmet as an easter egg. Nothing in that small scene says "Hey, Daredevil is definitely coming next week, guys!"
    It was a pretty obvious cliffhanger with Daredevil's helmet but also with Jens possible superhero suit... so it wasn't crazy to expect just that at the next episode (or at least more build up towards that) instead of some filler episode about a wedding no one cares about and some random divorce case. It's a filler episode, they even admit it with a 4th wall break.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  15. #1855
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    It was a pretty obvious cliffhanger with Daredevil's helmet
    IDK about "cliffhanger". I never saw it as more than an Easter Egg, and I certainly had no expectation that DD would ever actually show up in this show. Maybe that's just me, of course.

  16. #1856
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    It was a pretty obvious cliffhanger with Daredevil's helmet but also with Jens possible superhero suit... so it wasn't crazy to expect just that at the next episode (or at least more build up towards that) instead of some filler episode about a wedding no one cares about and some random divorce case. It's a filler episode, they even admit it with a 4th wall break.
    It was never more than an easter egg. It was basically just a "hey, guess who also gets his suit done here? And look, its a new colour scheme!" They have to hype up that new series he's getting in-universe somehow. There was no promise of him being in She-Hulk because of that scene.

    Its a sitcom. This is what sitcom episodes are.

  17. #1857
    We already know Daredevil will show up in the show. You can defend the baiting without being disingenuous.

  18. #1858
    I absolutely expected Matt to show up at some point in a show. I was hoping it was going to be ep 6 due to hint in ep 5, but I am still expecting Matt to show up at some point. why? cause of this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrCKI_lJHFE

    that scene may not have been a promise, but him being in one of the teasers for the show - absolutely was.

    edited, and apparently she even talked about it in interviews /shrug

    https://youtu.be/ctgXqfPhoFw?t=110

    guys...I know we get defensive because of how much criticism is done not in good faith in this thread, but not all of it is. you do not have to go into kneejerk you know.
    Last edited by Witchblade77; 2022-09-25 at 03:26 PM.

  19. #1859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Editing this because i rewatched the scene. IT WAS THE FIRST PUNCH THAT SENT JEN FLYING SOME 5-10 METERS FAR. IN HUMAN FORM.

    This show sucks.
    If that's your standard, the entire MCU sucks. Plenty of "normal" humans get tossed that far with minimal injury. Plus, we're ignoring that Jen could easily have had a cracked skull or something, and turning into She-Hulk just kicked in the old Hulk healing factor.

    Did this scene in Iron Man 1 make that movie "suck"?



    Or do you just have a completely indefensible double standard that you're applying, here.

    It's part of a superhero comic franchise. Stuff like this happens constantly and it's just part of the setting that we agree to suspend disbelief on, the same way we suspend disbelief as to magic spells being cast and literal Gods walking the Earth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    We already know Daredevil will show up in the show. You can defend the baiting without being disingenuous.
    But we know he'll show up because they announced that he'd show up. Not because of the easter egg of his helmet. There's been so many characters teased in little bits here and there in the MCU who've never shown up. Wolverine was teased in She-Hulk, too, though not as overtly.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-09-25 at 03:29 PM.


  20. #1860
    Quote Originally Posted by Jotaux View Post
    We already know Daredevil will show up in the show. You can defend the baiting without being disingenuous.
    Nothing whatsoever disingenuous about what I said. I literally pointed out that he's not promised to show up because of that incredibly short easter egg. We already know he's coming at some point because they told us. Part of his new costume showing up in the place a lot of superhero costumes are made is not a "promise" of any kind lol

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