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  1. #1861
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Thank you for confirming that you're all a bunch of dopes that parrot the same argument.
    And your arguments to defend the show are completely unique? Are you even hearing yourself? Of course arguments will repeat when talking about the same subject matter, how is this even a question? Dear lord...

  2. #1862
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    IDK about "cliffhanger". I never saw it as more than an Easter Egg, and I certainly had no expectation that DD would ever actually show up in this show. Maybe that's just me, of course.
    To me it becomes a cliffhanger and not just an easter egg precisely because we've known that DD is going to show up for quite some time, but i admit that the term cliffhanger is probably not the best way to describe it. My point is that it was very reasonable to expect him showing up in this episode as well as jen's superhero suit. Ep6 is terrible in my opinion, but the fact that it has no DD has nothing to do with it.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  3. #1863
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    And your arguments to defend the show are completely unique? Are you even hearing yourself? Of course arguments will repeat when talking about the same subject matter, how is this even a question? Dear lord...
    My arguments are based on actually watching the show. Already having pre-existing knowledge of the character helps too.

    Your arguments involve conspiracy theories doubtlessly cribbed from some prominent crank on YouTube. It’s like you patiently wait for your talking points to arrive before invading the thread-du-jour and throwing shit everywhere.

  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I can't believe we're still arguing the same tired shit from early episodes about men being shit on and the accuracy of any legal proceedings. Do people watch Suits and genuinely think that's how things go in and out of court?


    Then stop watching it.
    Well, i am not concerned about accuracy. I am talking about engaging legal stories. Those in the show are already solved cases, needed only to be presented facts in court. It's simpleton writing and that's my peeve.

    And, no. I am gonna watch it till the end. I want to see where the SHE-HULK ends up in the whole MCU and its current and future phases. It's quite possible that this trainwreck will lead nowhere, that there's actually an interesting story, but that it is badly written to condemn the series and the character to be reintroduced in a far better way in another series or film.

    Stop with "don't like it, don't watch it". It's not an argument on the quality of the series. It's an ad hominem that gives nothing to the discussion of the QUALITY OF THE SERIES.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ivanstone View Post
    Thank you for confirming that you're all a bunch of dopes that parrot the same argument.
    Look in the mirror. You belong to another bunch of dopes who deny criticism with the same arguments and not discussing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    IDK about "cliffhanger". I never saw it as more than an Easter Egg, and I certainly had no expectation that DD would ever actually show up in this show. Maybe that's just me, of course.
    You know, MCU has a habit of teasing stuff to come in their last film/series scenes, along with the mid-after credit ones. If you had no expectation, it's a you thing and not what the majority of the MCU audience thinks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If that's your standard, the entire MCU sucks. Plenty of "normal" humans get tossed that far with minimal injury. Plus, we're ignoring that Jen could easily have had a cracked skull or something, and turning into She-Hulk just kicked in the old Hulk healing factor.

    Did this scene in Iron Man 1 make that movie "suck"?



    Or do you just have a completely indefensible double standard that you're applying, here.

    It's part of a superhero comic franchise. Stuff like this happens constantly and it's just part of the setting that we agree to suspend disbelief on, the same way we suspend disbelief as to magic spells being cast and literal Gods walking the Earth.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But we know he'll show up because they announced that he'd show up. Not because of the easter egg of his helmet. There's been so many characters teased in little bits here and there in the MCU who've never shown up. Wolverine was teased in She-Hulk, too, though not as overtly.
    We are talking about superpowered beings here hitting hard each other. I can easily assume that Iron Man wore some protective stuff on his hands or managed to brake his wall launch with something. Gotta be vague enough as "sucker-punch", despite the fact that there are physics there.

    Also, what's the next scene? Tony getting up and dusting himself? Or maybe a cut scene some days ago after he treated his injuries?

    You're giving half the proof here. Go get me the rest of it or rest it.
    /spit@Blizzard

  5. #1865
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    And, no. I am gonna watch it till the end. I want to see where the SHE-HULK ends up in the whole MCU and its current and future phases. It's quite possible that this trainwreck will lead nowhere, that there's actually an interesting story, but that it is badly written to condemn the series and the character to be reintroduced in a far better way in another series or film.
    It isn't "badly written", and you folks making that claim haven't ever made a single valid argument to support that. You just don't like it.

    Edit: On this point, before people come back with weak elements, I'm not arguing the writing is genius. Just serviceable. On par with any other decent sitcom. There's a whole lotta room between "bad" and "excellent", and I'm disputing "bad", not claiming "excellence".

    We are talking about superpowered beings here hitting hard each other. I can easily assume that Iron Man wore some protective stuff on his hands or managed to brake his wall launch with something. Gotta be vague enough as "sucker-punch", despite the fact that there are physics there.
    There's the utterly baseless double standard. You're willing to make excuses and suspend your disbelief, when it's Tony Stark. But not when it's Jennifer Walters.

    Also, what's the next scene? Tony getting up and dusting himself? Or maybe a cut scene some days ago after he treated his injuries?

    You're giving half the proof here. Go get me the rest of it or rest it.
    The movie's right there for you to watch. I'm just not holding your hand and stepping you through scene by scene. If you thought there was contradictory evidence in the following scene, that burden of proof lay with you, not me.

    And unfortunately for you, the next scene is Tony working at a computer without any trace of injury whatsoever or any indication that any significant time has passed. Which I kinda think you knew and hoped I wouldn't check, as if that made any damned sense.

    You're holding a double standard. Which raises the question of why you're targeting She-Hulk, specifically, because it sure doesn't make a lick of sense to single She-Hulk out like you are.
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-09-25 at 05:51 PM.


  6. #1866
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post

    You're giving half the proof here. Go get me the rest of it or rest it.


    Bruce was also ok after this.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  7. #1867
    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    Well, i am not concerned about accuracy. I am talking about engaging legal stories.
    Perhaps if "engaging legal stories" is what you're looking for, "sitcom about a lawyer who gets superpowers and needs to figure out what that means for her life" may not have been the best place to find that. From the start.

    It's like complaining that BBT doesn't have "engaging physics stories" in it. WTF I watched this expecting some exciting plot lines about Calabi-Yau manifolds and and the stress-energy tensor, and instead they're playing D&D and talking about girls! I FEEL SO CHEATED!

    Like, seriously.

  8. #1868
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Bruce was also ok after this.
    Oof, it's even clearer than I remembered - Bruce doesn't even transform when he hits the ground, he's just stunned for a bit and then goes Hulk.

    I think this is pretty solid indication that MCU hulks are superhumanly tough even in human form?

  9. #1869
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Perhaps if "engaging legal stories" is what you're looking for, "sitcom about a lawyer who gets superpowers and needs to figure out what that means for her life" may not have been the best place to find that. From the start.
    Maybe the issue is precisely that the MCU is not the best place for that kind of show in the first place. You can have Ally McBeal with superpowers as a show, but if you put that as part of a cinematic universe about superheroes you create certain expectations and interest that wouldn't exist if it wasn't part of that universe. That's also the reason why people keep watching and talking about it even when they don't like it and i'm pretty sure that everyone involved in the show is very aware of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Oof, it's even clearer than I remembered - Bruce doesn't even transform when he hits the ground, he's just stunned for a bit and then goes Hulk.

    I think this is pretty solid indication that MCU hulks are superhumanly tough even in human form?
    Nah, it's just a solid indication that Taika Waititi thought it would be a funny moment.
    Last edited by Geckoo; 2022-09-25 at 07:11 PM.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  10. #1870
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Nah, it's just a solid indication that Taika Waititi thought it would be a funny moment.
    And Titania suckerpunching Jen was also funny! So it works.

  11. #1871
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    Maybe the issue is precisely that the MCU is not the best place for that kind of show in the first place. You can have Ally McBeal with superpowers as a show, but if you put that as part of a cinematic universe about superheroes you create certain expectations and interest that wouldn't exist if it wasn't part of that universe. That's also the reason why people keep watching and talking about it even when they don't like it and i'm pretty sure that everyone involved in the show is very aware of that.
    And again, the Dan Slott run this is patterned after is pretty much exactly like this show. So if there's clearly room in the Marvel comics universe for this kind of thing, why wouldn't there be in the Marvel cinematic universe?

    The "expectations" you're talking about are unreasonable and demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of Marvel and its content. Because Dan Slott's run is by no means the only kind of silly run. We could talk about NextWave: Agents of H.A.T.E, which is amazing and I hope it gets adapted. There's superheroics but it's also more Suicide-Squad-y than Suicide Squad. Or basically anything with Squirrel Girl. Howard the Duck is a long-time character. There's a deep run of silly within Marvel, and plenty of stuff that takes whatever "expectations" you're talking about and flagrantly ignores them.


  12. #1872
    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    Oof, it's even clearer than I remembered - Bruce doesn't even transform when he hits the ground, he's just stunned for a bit and then goes Hulk.

    I think this is pretty solid indication that MCU hulks are superhumanly tough even in human form?
    not even just Hulks... even the "regular" humans in the MCU can survive things that would, in actual reality, probably cripple or kill them. That scene with Stark posted earlier is an example. Here's another.



    Hulk gives Black Widow a backhand that sends her flying against a wall... Obviously not a full-force hit... but, had there not been a wall in the way, she'd have flown at least as far Jen flew after that punch from Titania. Natasha is, of course, stunned a bit...but no serious injuries sustained.

    Action movies in general are very forgiving in terms of what should have killed, crippled, or maimed our heroes. I mean, how many times have you watched a movie and something happens and you're like "there's no way he could have survived that"

    Not just our heroes either... villains too! Here's some ninja turtle action:



    Shredder falls off the top of a building and gets crushed by a trash compactor.

    Still makes it back for the Sequel though.

    And just because I feel like picking on Die Hard more...because it is a movie that embodies all the complaints about she-hulk...including the ones about how "poorly" men are portrayed.

    Last edited by Evil Midnight Bomber; 2022-09-25 at 07:48 PM.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  13. #1873
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And again, the Dan Slott run this is patterned after is pretty much exactly like this show. So if there's clearly room in the Marvel comics universe for this kind of thing, why wouldn't there be in the Marvel cinematic universe?

    The "expectations" you're talking about are unreasonable and demonstrate a deep lack of understanding of Marvel and its content. Because Dan Slott's run is by no means the only kind of silly run. We could talk about NextWave: Agents of H.A.T.E, which is amazing and I hope it gets adapted. There's superheroics but it's also more Suicide-Squad-y than Suicide Squad. Or basically anything with Squirrel Girl. Howard the Duck is a long-time character. There's a deep run of silly within Marvel, and plenty of stuff that takes whatever "expectations" you're talking about and flagrantly ignores them.
    The expectations people have with the MCU are a direct consequence of the MCU itself, not from the comics. You are clearly very lectured in the comics, but i'm sure you'll agree that the majority of the people watching the movies and shows don't know or care enough about the comic books, so it doesn't matter how close the she-hulk show is to the she-hulk comic if in the end we are talking about what people expects from the MCU.

    And to be clear, i'm not saying that there is no room for comedy or silly stuff, all marvel movies and shows have comedy all over the place! but never at the expense of pushing a more or less serious story forward. In fact, the biggest flops they had are the ones that failed to balance both things.

    Quote Originally Posted by paxen View Post
    And Titania suckerpunching Jen was also funny! So it works.
    Exactly. Well, i didn't find it funny, but it doesn't bother me either. So yeah, it works.
    "Mastery Haste will fix it."

  14. #1874
    Quote Originally Posted by Geckoo View Post
    The expectations people have with the MCU are a direct consequence of the MCU itself, not from the comics. You are clearly very lectured in the comics, but i'm sure you'll agree that the majority of the people watching the movies and shows don't know or care enough about the comic books, so it doesn't matter how close the she-hulk show is to the she-hulk comic if in the end we are talking about what people expects from the MCU.
    Couple points I want to make here:

    1) The thing about "what people expect from the MCU" is that it's always evolving. What they expected from the MCU in 2008 is different than what they expect in 2022. If the MCU had constrained itself to being "what people expect"...it would never have grown into what it is.

    2) Marvel has been very clear about what people should expect from She-Hulk. If some people aren't gettting what they expect...they just weren't paying attention. That doesn't mean they have to like it... not every show is for every person. But there needs to be a line drawn between "this isn't what i wanted" and "this is trash".

    3) The MCU has always taken cues from the comics...even if the majority of people aren't aware of it.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  15. #1875
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    But there needs to be a line drawn between "this isn't what i wanted" and "this is trash".
    Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread and others like it.

    People REALLY need to understand this. And then, ideally, also act accordingly - i.e. don't watch things you don't like, and don't come piss on stuff other people like that you don't just because you don't. How are we ever going to get better product if people just watch everything anyway and go on hate-filled rants across platforms. That isn't helping anyone.

  16. #1876
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Seems to be a recurring theme in this thread and others like it.

    People REALLY need to understand this. And then, ideally, also act accordingly - i.e. don't watch things you don't like, and don't come piss on stuff other people like that you don't just because you don't. How are we ever going to get better product if people just watch everything anyway and go on hate-filled rants across platforms. That isn't helping anyone.
    On the contrary. Critique is very important to improve the quality of a product. In this case the MCU as a whole. By heaving completely unjustified praise on this show, or rather allowing you and your friends here to do that without offering a counter position we signal to Marvel that we are fine with the abyssmal quality of this show, making them think that they do not need to do better.

    What you are saying is that surrounding yourself with yes-men is a good idea, so you never need to question your stance. That is about the last thing we need. We need people to come out of their echo chambers to think more, not less.

  17. #1877
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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It isn't "badly written", and you folks making that claim haven't ever made a single valid argument to support that. You just don't like it.

    Edit: On this point, before people come back with weak elements, I'm not arguing the writing is genius. Just serviceable. On par with any other decent sitcom. There's a whole lotta room between "bad" and "excellent", and I'm disputing "bad", not claiming "excellence".



    There's the utterly baseless double standard. You're willing to make excuses and suspend your disbelief, when it's Tony Stark. But not when it's Jennifer Walters.



    The movie's right there for you to watch. I'm just not holding your hand and stepping you through scene by scene. If you thought there was contradictory evidence in the following scene, that burden of proof lay with you, not me.

    And unfortunately for you, the next scene is Tony working at a computer without any trace of injury whatsoever or any indication that any significant time has passed. Which I kinda think you knew and hoped I wouldn't check, as if that made any damned sense.

    You're holding a double standard. Which raises the question of why you're targeting She-Hulk, specifically, because it sure doesn't make a lick of sense to single She-Hulk out like you are.
    No mate. You make the claim, you give the proof. I won't have you posting a meme-short from the film, because you think it proves something that suits you. Go all the way, or stop posting stuff that are misleading.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post


    Bruce was also ok after this.
    So Bruce was ok after this, but a damn traffic accident causes him to bleed all over his cousin and transform her.

    Now is that a double standard or not?
    /spit@Blizzard

  18. #1878
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    On the contrary. Critique is very important to improve the quality of a product.
    If me writing "stop pissing on stuff other people like just because you don't" came across as meaning "critique" to you, I don't really know what to say.

    Absolutely we need critique. But that's not what I was talking about. At all.

  19. #1879
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabinas View Post
    No mate. You make the claim, you give the proof. I won't have you posting a meme-short from the film, because you think it proves something that suits you. Go all the way, or stop posting stuff that are misleading.
    I did. You just quoted it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    And unfortunately for you, the next scene is Tony working at a computer without any trace of injury whatsoever or any indication that any significant time has passed. Which I kinda think you knew and hoped I wouldn't check, as if that made any damned sense.
    Maybe make the effort to read posts before responding, if you want people to believe you have honest intentions?
    Last edited by Endus; 2022-09-25 at 10:01 PM.


  20. #1880
    It would be nice if people stopped enganging with the trolls.

    Fabinas earlier dismissed the inhibitor outright, and now they wonder how Bruce could bleed in She-Hulk but survive the pratfall..

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