[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Aydinx2]

Of course women like watching a series that tells them that they are better then other genders simply because being a woman makes you better. That does not make this line any less sexist or any less disdainful for hardships that other genders go through throughout life. Surprise, women are not the only ones that can have a hard life.

I mean Bruce (depending on which canon we apply) was heavily abused as a kid, which lead to the creation of the split persona that manifested as the Hulk and Jen is whining about being cat called in the street as some terrible torment she had to endure... I am sure the life of a successful attractive woman is super hard, but still...

Having things rough is not a competition dude. And if you feel attacked by the show: congratulations, you're the kind of creep she's talking about.

[Endus]

You are delusional if you think its success because of characters like "Iron Man" and "Thor", its all work of marvelous actors Robert Downey +Chris Hemsworth. just you wait until they they gonna replace all these cool and sexy actors with random unexperienced kids

Shit that's literally not happening for $1000, Alex.

Also, a lot of these actors weren't the massive names they are today before the MCU. Robert Downey Jr. had been through rehab after burning out and falling into a massive drug habit. He spent a year in prison. After prison, he was still struggling and got fired from multiple roles due to his drug use. This was 1999-2001ish. His wife gave him an ultimatum in 2003, and he's stuck with it. He did a few small films that weren't massive successes (though they're mostly great) like Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and A Scanner Darkly, and then he got a massive break, being cast as Iron Man (and in Tropic Thunder). This was him climbing out of a deep, deep hole, though, and it was considered a risk to hire him onto those projects. Hemsworth had just made the leap from Australian TV to Hollywood, and was in no way a big name before Thor.

Or how about Chris Pratt, who was "that chubby guy on Parks and Rec" until being cast as Starlord.

The only "unexperienced kid" they've had was Iman Vellani, for Ms. Marvel, and that was perfect casting. She was one of many who sent in a casting tape, and she was the unanimous pick, and she knocked it out of the park. And while they've had a lot of big names, the MCU has also vastly elevated many careers.

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What, you mean like those flops featuring no-name actors in Black Panther, Shang-Chi, and Spider-Man?

Nailed it again.

I wouldn't say any of those three were "no-names". Simu Liu both had a pretty decent career as a stuntman and a highly respected sitcom role on Kim's Convenience, up here in Canada; he's Chinese-Canadian, had the fight training and martial arts and stunt expertise, and had shown a lot of potential for both dramatic and comedic acting. He might not have been well-known to American audiences, but he wasn't a nobody coming in out of nowhere.

[Xath]

I doubt the CW is big into grounded stories, though ;P

Batgirl not Batwoman

[Biomega]

Batgirl not Batwoman

I know.

The point was, many DC shows end up on the CW and that's where they turn into... anything that ISN'T grounded serious stories.

[Witchblade77]

I know.

The point was, many DC shows end up on the CW and that's where they turn into... anything that ISN'T grounded serious stories.

yep. its usually pure cheese product, but honestly... most super hero comic books are. also - this exists. and personaly for all its cheesiness, i wish it got more then one season.

[Biomega]

yep. its usually pure cheese product, but honestly... most super hero comic books are. also - this exists. and personaly for all its cheesiness, i wish it got more then one season

It depends, I guess. Take Legends of Tomorrow for example, which started off as being really cheesy superhero stuff but then realized that they could just have fun with that and CELEBRATE their cheesiness and that made it basically the only watchable CW show because it's so self-aware and unashamed of what it is. But that's the exception.

[Shadowferal]

yep. its usually pure cheese product, but honestly... most super hero comic books are. also - this exists. and personaly for all its cheesiness, i wish it got more then one season.

I found that show pretty damn disappointingly silly. It was a kids show, no better than the Shazam/Isis hour that came on Saturday after the morning cartoons.

[Icelin]

Yeah, how could a project starring Catwoman fail to be amazing and successful?

By your logic they should've never tried another Catwoman adaption again or even contemplate it? I mean if we went with this logic we would've been stuck with the last movie of Batman being George Clooney (Which has been the worst actor to play Batman so far in history. In my opinion.) and an awful story. Halle Berry is a good actress, not my favorite but still I think she is much better actress than Scarlett Johansson. Everyone has different tastes. She couldn't help they gave her a corny script.

By that logic, we would've never gotten the Christopher Nolan trilogy of Batman which was hugely successful. Never had Christian Bale, Ben Affleck or currently Edward Cullen play Batman. If the entertainment industry had the mindset of once bitten twice shy, amazing entertainment wouldn't have happened. Yet it didn't stop them with other popular characters. Why I am happy about the release of House of the Dragon. (I hope it is ok) I wish Blizzard Entertainment could share the same sentiment and properly promote positive messages instead of failing to fund it and give it adequate time in development. Abuse messages are gone, many interesting characters are welcome.

Yes, you're allowed to state your opinions.

No, you're not entitled to have those opinions go without criticism, and it being an "opinion" does not make it immune from criticism or even just straight-up being wrong.

This isn't your personal blog. So yes, expect replies and criticism to your comments, especially when they're as goofy and pointless as those were.

Yes I am allowed to state my opinions of strange choices made of the heroines they have went with to produce shows. That created huge backlash. I disagree that it is pointless. You guys genuinely want me to believe that Batgirl is more popular than Catwoman or Harley Quinn..?

[Endus]

By your logic they should've never tried another Catwoman adaption again or even contemplate it?

No, I mean your pet theory that a Catwoman project, starring a big-name star like Halle Berry, would automagically end up way better than the MCU films.

Your argument doesn't hold up. The MCU's setting brand-new standards and records, consistently, with their products. That's why they can take a bunch of nobody characters like the Guardians of the Galaxy, get the fat kid from Parks and Recreation to play the main guy, and pull in three quarters of a billion dollars at the box office. Marvel's proven they don't need to rely on fame, either of their actors or the characters they're playing.

Yes I am allowed to state my opinions of strange choices made of the heroines they have went with to produce shows. That created huge backlash. I disagree that it is pointless. You guys genuinely want me to believe that Batgirl is more popular than Catwoman or Harley Quinn..?

What "huge backlash"? The only backlash against stuff like Ms. Marvel or this new She-Hulk show has been from bigots who're angry at anything that doesn't promote white men as the bestest ever.

And I really don't know why you keep bringing up DC properties as if they're comparable. Especially when Harley Quinn had her own big-ass movie and it didn't do well (unfairly, IMO, Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of Harley Quinn was really good); it only pulled in about $200m at the box office. So it's not like they're ignoring the character.

We'll never know about the Batgirl film, since it's shelved. But you're crapping on Marvel characters, here, and pointing at DC films as if those are the draw for audiences, and the facts say the opposite of that. If you want to question WTF the studio heads behind DC films are thinking, go make your own thread for that, because it doesn't have anything to do with She-Hulk.

[Xath]

I know.

The point was, many DC shows end up on the CW and that's where they turn into... anything that ISN'T grounded serious stories.

Doesn't WB have their own streaming service now? Just put it on that and keep the CW far far far far far away

[JDL49]

Doesn't WB have their own streaming service now? Just put it on that and keep the CW far far far far far away

1) The CW, having new owners who want to go cheaper won't have any new DC shows. One slight possibility is new shows with lower tier characters on networks other than the CW. Of course the problem with that is streaming.

2) HBO Max won't get anything major for that venue since the new mgmt. wants those characters for movies and only movies. Further since shows with non movie characters are still expensive to make HBO Max won't get any of those either.

Unless the fanbase forces a sale of DC you can expect the DCEU to wither and slowly die. You'll get Bats every 2-3 years at best with Aquaguy and Wonder Grrll running out their respective strings. At that point, when it's been reduced to scrap value, the idiots will sell it.

[qwerty123456]

Bruce tells us in the episode that Jen got a lethal dose of Gamma from that drop and she would be dead if she didn’t have the same rare gene as Bruce, he also says that when people find out there’s another hulk that they are gonna hound her to find out how it happened.

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coming in contact with a drop of his blood kills any one without the same gene he and Jen has like we saw in the hulk movie with the Stan lee cameo which blew his cover.

Rare gene not unique gene. He's bled before in the films. People have to have been in contact with it. Even if 99% of them did die touching it there would be a crew gathering it up as a weapon. And using it to assassinate people would eventually lead to a survivor.

I

[Raisei]

Having things rough is not a competition dude.

I certainly did not make it into a competition. The show did, by pointing to Jennifers "hardship" as the reason why she is better at being a Hulk in 3 days then the guy that is a Hulk for 15 years.

And if you feel attacked by the show: congratulations, you're the kind of creep she's talking about.

1) I do not feel attacked. I find it a shame that shows these days need to resort to these kinds of lines to characterize their female leads. We had tons of female main characters that did not need it to be good characters. Take Jessica Jones, Jaina Proudmoore and many more.

But maybe it is not even the fact that this is the reason behind it, but that it is stated so bluntly. "Show, don't tell", would have helped a lot here I find. Instead of rushing us to this point, show us how Jen is behaving in here regular life, how she is actually having trouble and overcomes it. But we see none of this.

2) Yeah, yeah, I know, I took it upon myself to argue against female sexism towards a man. I must be the greatest misogynist on the internets. I should be canceled for actually wishing there was no sexism in any direction towards any gender.

Thought experiment: Imagine the roles switched. Bruce is the new guy at the job, Jen has 15 years of experience. What would the internet have said if he had dropped such a line about his life in comparison to Jennifers?

Yes. The Twitter Justice Warriors would have flipped so hard the MCU would have had shut down. Because you can only portray such scenes these days if the woman comes out on top.

As if turning around the blatant sexism towards women that was present in past Hollywood and now belitteling men is in any way making things better. Eye for an eye and all.

It doesn't. It is just an act of revenge and a petty one at that.

I know this whole text will probably not even remotely penetrate that shell of righteousness you and the others created for yourself, that allows you to call anyone questioning your believe "creep", but I felt it should be said.

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You're right. There weren't any real stakes in the literal explanatory prologue before the actual events of the show kicked off.

You really do not understand what a Mary Sue is and your little offended tantrum does not allow you to get my point.

The prologue shows a character that INSTANTLY overcomes any and all adversity presented to her. She masters being a Hulk in days, she is immediatedly skilled enough to beat Bruce in a fist fight despite him having gone through dozens of life or death fights, she beats Titania with one punch as if she was Saitama.

This makes one question how high the stakes have to be for her to even break a sweat.

That is just bad writing. If everything comes so easy to the Main Characters then she is very unrelatable and boring.

If they want to make her unbeatable then they need to give her other weaknesses. Like the mentioned Saitama. A character that is unbeatable, successful, attractive and smart is just extremely bland.

[cocomen2]

If they want to make her unbeatable then they need to give her other weaknesses. Like the mentioned Saitama. A character that is unbeatable, successful, attractive and smart is just extremely bland.

Don't take it personal, but gosh - how do you watching Onepunch-man, just woah - its whole point in his over comically stupid ways to deal with problems.

1) yes he is unbeatable, but its OK for comedy character to not have "Kryptonite".

2) he is not attractive, since being bald for Jap people is worse than being ugly af, but once again for comedy its very good theme.

3) he is extra stupid, but he is so powerful that just enemy didn't last long enough to force him to start using brain, while he wins with farts and slaps.

4) not successful, since he just that powerful that others can't even understand how much powerful he is, so if he would be smarter to tone down his power he would be alredy SSS hero instead of C rank.

5) yes he is extremely bland, but once again its was made for comedy purpose while their artist does majestic job on any other aspect of series.

[Kreuger]

Really liked the first episode, the humour was spot on.

[Darththeo]

You really do not understand what a Mary Sue is and your little offended tantrum does not allow you to get my point.

The prologue shows a character that INSTANTLY overcomes any and all adversity presented to her. She masters being a Hulk in days, she is immediatedly skilled enough to beat Bruce in a fist fight despite him having gone through dozens of life or death fights, she beats Titania with one punch as if she was Saitama.

This makes one question how high the stakes have to be for her to even break a sweat.

That is just bad writing. If everything comes so easy to the Main Characters then she is very unrelatable and boring.

If they want to make her unbeatable then they need to give her other weaknesses. Like the mentioned Saitama. A character that is unbeatable, successful, attractive and smart is just extremely bland.

Don't say someone else doesn't understand what a Mary Sue is when you literally fail to understand what that term is. You cannot call her a Mary Sue after one episode and what is essentially a training/learning her powers montage. It makes no logical sense to even bring out that term after an introductory episode. What you are doing here would be akin watching the Shazam movie ignoring the villain scenes and going "I can't see how Shazam has any weaknesses, he is such a Mary Sue."

Saying she "mastered" being a hulk is utterly dishonest because neither she nor Bruce imply that. The most you could get to is that she learned enough to have the level of control over the Hulk self as Bruce had in the first Avengers movies, something he taught himself in 31 days (see ending of The Incredible Hulk). And Bruce literally says if you need him she knows where to find him.

Everything else you can say is pretty true of the Hulk, he is rarely going to encounter someone of equal strength ... why do you have a problem with She hulk being in that same boat? We haven't seen who the villain is going to be yet. We know nothing but the character's introduction and you are already saying "Nothing could challenge here and she is a Mary Sue." One episode, that's all we got.

[ketsui]

What in the ACTUAL FUCK did I just watch........

I get that she hulk is supposed to be bad bitch kickass, but to master ALL Bruce learned in a WEEK(perhaps longer) AND outmatch him my LEAPS and BOUNDS..........

I mean do you want the entire series to just be a clone of avengers hulk wrapped into the whole season with a female instead of a male? i don't

And then you get that dumbass Closing shit. me and my wife were like" what the fuck just happened" what perfect timing for this uber bitch to crash through the courtroom, look dazed and confused, fight she hulk for 10 seconds and get knocked out......


I want to watch this to see what is going on with the ship and bruce, but that first episode, uuuggghhhh

at first i thought the same thing you thought about the final scene (great timing for super lady to pop in) but its pretty apparent by her mentioning 'bring out the green girl' or whatever she said that this was in the future and things have been explained. obviously in a world with super heroes there will occasionally be super villains hired to disrupt legal proceedings. guess this was her first time showing off her powers to others

[Raisei]

Don't say someone else doesn't understand what a Mary Sue is when you literally fail to understand what that term is. You cannot call her a Mary Sue after one episode

Literally the first time I have seen a time frame necessary to be a Mary Sue. Sounds quite like you just wanna deny my point and are reaching for any weak excuse. A first episode is meant to establish a status quo, introduce the characters and give us an idea about their strength and weaknesses (not in detail).
It very much failed on that. It showed us a perfect being, that is not in anyway threatened or even fazed by the most crazy shit happening to her, needs no instruction by a guy with 15 year experience and casually beats him in every aspect of the training.

I get that for many people this is completely excuseable because we are talking about a woman and empowerment is more important then a decent narrative. For me it is just very bad writing that counts on critique being shut up by the murderous Twitter crowd or the murderous forum crowd as it is here.
Much like it was with people critizising the horrendous second Wonder Woman movie that depicts "the hero" physically and mentally abusing an innocent guy to get her dead boyfriend back.

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Don't take it personal

My point was that Saitama despite being the - for now - strongest being in the universe, has a big weakness. He is suffering from crushing depression, that makes him nearly unable to function on a normal level. At the beginning of the series he had no friends, no social contacts and was living alone in a literally forsaken city. Only slowly he is getting back into the world when he meets Genos and then gets into the "professional" Hero life.

[Ihavewaffles]

This show...it's like her kids will walk in, "mom, please just stop! This is cringe n all our friends are laughing at us!"

[Mehrunes]

Why are people acting like Tatiana Maslany is some uggo?

Some of those pictures are like a decade old and I'm pretty sure the left one is from a photo shoot for a magazine, which is hardly representative of anyone's normal looks. Now, personally I wouldn't call her ugly either way (though as far as my own tastes go MCU alone has its fill of much more attractive women), but still, not the best examples to use to convince people of her current attractiveness.

cause beauty standards for women in Hollywood are different from those for men. and before someone says something about beefcakes and steroids, that's not for women, that's mostly for male power fantasies.

some dudes don't even realize how much thirst there is for characters like Phil Coulson, Bruce Banner (without the abs and all) and there there is Picard (aka Patrick Steward), the ultimate thirst trap. Chris Pratt was far more popular with women when he was a pudgy cheerful himbo, than when he beefed up and started acting more macho/playing more macho characters.

its not that women are never, EVER attracted to muscle, but rather standards of physical attractiveness for men/male characters are nowhere NEAR as ridiculous as those for women. even Magic Mike couldn't just coast on sexy dancing alone, they had to add some vulnerability and personality to their beefcake for more women to like them.

so yeah, the main reason these actors are beefing up is to present a power fantasy for dudes to project themselves onto, any sort of attractiveness to female audience is a secondary concern.

Male power fantasy indeed. That's precisely why adverts targeted at women in female magazines and whatnot that try to use the titillating angle to push a product are full of Phil Coulsons and cheerful himbos (never mind that himbo is a term for male bimbo, which is kinda the opposite of what you were getting at) of the world. Oh, wait...

She is quite clearly shown to master every aspect of being a Hulk, including the controlled transformation in a matter of days at most, while disregarding Bruce's decades of experience every step of the way. There is no "training", she is just showing off. Bruce is outspokenly jealous how easy it all comes to her.

Then the guy that has been so deeply depressed by his condition that he attempted suicide at least once (he says so in Avengers 1), had to listen to her moaning about how hard her life as an attractive succeful woman is. It is a disgusting tone-deaf scene. Clearly made to pander to extremist feminist viewers that just like to see a woman being better then a man, no matter how little sense it makes.

Her biggest trauma in this episode was ripping her favourite suit by transforming. It is very difficult to feel anything for her when the stakes are sooooooooo low.

And before some fool again calls me misogynistic for pointing this flaw out, I am not saying that Jennifer is bad, the actress is doing a fine job. But the writing team really needs to fucking think about what words they put in her mouth.

Putting aside how this is a rather significant exaggeration to put it mildly, don't you think Jennifer having less trauma to deal with is precisely why things may be easier for her? Kinda shot yourself in the foot with that one.