[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Witchblade77]

Based on what it is, I should absolutely hate this.

But it's so, so fun to watch. That chemistry is REAL.

100% same. like the first scene she's in, I was almost happy that she got teleported. by the time we got to post credits scene I was fully on Medisynn bandwagon. and finding out that post credit scene was them basically improvising off each other? #chefskiss

[PrimiOne]

#MadisynnForAvengersTeam

Or riot.I mean it.

The character seems to be an obvious parody ( and a wild one) of Madelyne Pryor (similar names with an mispelled 'y', makes a pact with the demon, Madelyne becomes the Goblin Queen, Madisynn ask Wong for the Goblin King...) wich makes me wonder... Is there more of this that we are not seeing? I mean the demon obviously send her specifically to the Supreme Sorcerer presence with a beating heart in his hand....is someone trying to send Wong a message?

And yeah , this is probably reading too much into what is probably just fun nonsense but this happens ....because Madi & Wongers are just great and we want more of them.

[Al Gorefiend]

The most shocking reveal of this latest episode is fans actually liking Madisynn.

[paxen]

The most shocking reveal of this latest episode is fans actually liking Madisynn.

It's an archetype that nobody expects to like, but it's so well written and the actress is so good that it's just impossible not to love

[MCMLXXXII]

Damn it! It just dropped into me; it was Madisynn all along!!!

[Koriani]

but back to the show. honestly. Jennifer is a terrible lawyer. That quite possibly writers have no bloody clue what they are writing when it comes to courtroom stuff.

how in a bloody hell do you go into an actual hearing... without talking to your witnesses first? sure you cannot coach them, but at the very least you can and SHOULD veto them before bringing them in? And/Or, I don't know talk to your client extensively about their case?

like.. I understand that this whole thing is played for laughs and it does have funny moments, but at the same time.... it just bugs me, you know?

P.S. the appeal is that characters themselves are fun and relatable. anyone who is mad about the way they show dating app adventures? haven't used dating apps. in this case it just so happens that Jennifer is having terrible time, but she is having the same issue with her dates as with her courtroom witnesses. not. enough. vetoing.

you can listen to plenty of men having very similar horror stories. most people using dating apps are not having the best time.

I watched a "Legal Eagle" (I suck at names but I THINK that's the name of the laywer's channel - he does all sorts of "real law" talks about tv/movies and entertainment industry) on SHe-Hulk and that's pretty much what he said.

He enjoyed the show for its humor; but, and I'm paraphrasing from him here - nothing about the law in this show is 'realistic' or 'legally correct'. Nothing wrong with that (his opinion and mine too really) and the show is fun - but the court room scenes aren't really attempting to portray "real life" or "real law" accurately.

He breaks down scenes in the first episode or two I think, very briefly as his channel's focus isn't to slam on any media or anything really negative (So he's not trying to bait views by being a show hater) but the take away was "sitcom" level of law writing and nothing more.

Just for your FYI - your validation that you are correct - the writers aren't really attempting to write 'real world' law in any way.

Whether that's a good thing, a bad thing, or 'don't care' is up to the viewer.

edited to add: I didn't realize when I responded that the thread had already moved on another 15 pages. Sorry about that...feel free to not respond, it doesn't need clarification =D

[Dhrizzle]

I watched a "Legal Eagle" (I suck at names but I THINK that's the name of the laywer's channel - he does all sorts of "real law" talks about tv/movies and entertainment industry) on SHe-Hulk and that's pretty much what he said.

He enjoyed the show for its humor; but, and I'm paraphrasing from him here - nothing about the law in this show is 'realistic' or 'legally correct'. Nothing wrong with that (his opinion and mine too really) and the show is fun - but the court room scenes aren't really attempting to portray "real life" or "real law" accurately.

He breaks down scenes in the first episode or two I think, very briefly as his channel's focus isn't to slam on any media or anything really negative (So he's not trying to bait views by being a show hater) but the take away was "sitcom" level of law writing and nothing more.

Just for your FYI - your validation that you are correct - the writers aren't really attempting to write 'real world' law in any way.

Whether that's a good thing, a bad thing, or 'don't care' is up to the viewer.

edited to add: I didn't realize when I responded that the thread had already moved on another 15 pages. Sorry about that...feel free to not respond, it doesn't need clarification =D

It's not so much a She-Hulk problem as a Hollywood problem, pretty much the only things that have got it right (and even then not 100%) are Better Call Saul, My Cousin Vinnie and Legally Blonde. Oh and It's Always Sunny managed to get some bits so right followed by some bits so wrong they must have been trolling real lawyers.

[MrLachyG]

Damn it! It just dropped into me; it was Madisynn all along!!!

Would be funny if she was involved with Mephisto

[SavoirFaire]

Would be funny if she was involved with Mephisto

Didn’t she say she made a pact with a demon she can’t say? This is our new Ghost… Drinker.

[Koriani]

It's not so much a She-Hulk problem as a Hollywood problem, pretty much the only things that have got it right (and even then not 100%) are Better Call Saul, My Cousin Vinnie and Legally Blonde. Oh and It's Always Sunny managed to get some bits so right followed by some bits so wrong they must have been trolling real lawyers.

Oh I quite agree! And agree with your 'more legally accurate than other productions' list - I'd only add the Netflix show - "Goliath" starring Billy Bob Thorton to your list

[Dhrizzle]

Oh I quite agree! And agree with your 'more legally accurate than other productions' list - I'd only add the Netflix show - "Goliath" starring Billy Bob Thorton to your list

I'd binged a load of Legal Eagle just before my girlfriend started watching How To Get Away With Murder and I was cringing so hard all the way through it. You'd have thought with a series set so firmly in the legal industry they could have gone the extra mile to get at least a few of the details right.

[Biomega]

I'd binged a load of Legal Eagle just before my girlfriend started watching How To Get Away With Murder and I was cringing so hard all the way through it. You'd have thought with a series set so firmly in the legal industry they could have gone the extra mile to get at least a few of the details right.

I guess it depends.

In general, dramas care about entertainment, not about accuracy. That is to say, they care about accuracy only insofar as it doesn't decrease the entertainment value.

Real law proceedings are BORING. Hours upon hours of Yes/No question games with the occasional formulaic interjection on endless repeat. There's no drama there 99% of the time, and the setting is deliberately static - not only in script but also in action. That's why one of the most common deviations in legal fiction is people walking around the courtroom - it creates movement on TV that gives the illusion of a story moving forward, even though IRL you'd probably get tackled by a bailiff if you just wandered into the well without permission. Same with questions: cross examinations are often very dull, very simplistic affairs: "upon seeing A did you do B?" "Yes." "Upon doing B, did you then do C?" "Yes." "After you did C, did you then do D?" "Yes." - that's not exactly prime-time TV quality dialogue.

That's just how fiction works. It eschews realism in favor of enjoyment if and when necessary, and it's usually not a problem; but I do agree that reckless disregard for realism can also go the OTHER way and decrease enjoyment. If they just throw out everything and do whatever they want (and not for intentional comedic effect) that can absolutely be a detriment. But meticulousness only has value to a certain extent, and most of the time it's not that people COULDN'T make it more realistic, it's that they CHOSE not to.

[Witchblade77]

to quote a statement I saw on a different website

I'm not looking for my fiction to be realistic. I'm looking for it to be believable.

as much as I overall enjoy She-Hulk, I have to essentially tell myself that Jen has GOT to be an unreliable narrator, because I do not find her claim that she is a qualified lawyer - to be believable. So for the narrative to make sense for me, I have to think that what Jen says and believes is not necessarily accurate, but rather her personal interpretation of the events she is narrating.

[Xath]

I went to law school because of Law & Order only to find out how fucking ridiculous Law & Order actually is, lol.

That seems incredibly unlikely. Not sure how someone could get to the point of going through the prep for law school let alone actually going without finding out how different the legal system is from tv.

[Endus]

to quote a statement I saw on a different website

I'm not looking for my fiction to be realistic. I'm looking for it to be believable.

as much as I overall enjoy She-Hulk, I have to essentially tell myself that Jen has GOT to be an unreliable narrator, because I do not find her claim that she is a qualified lawyer - to be believable. So for the narrative to make sense for me, I have to think that what Jen says and believes is not necessarily accurate, but rather her personal interpretation of the events she is narrating.

I think it's more that people see "lawyers" as somehow infallible or something. Look at some of the big cases hitting the news, like Alex Jones' cases, or Trump's lawyers, or the mass shooting sentencing trial where the defense team just decided to rest without calling like half their 80+ witnesses, earning a dressing-down from the judge. Those are bigger issues, IMO, than what we see Jen flubbing, and these lawyers are getting picked up by fairly big clients, for public-interest cases.

And a reminder that when we opened, Jen was an assistant DA and we were seeing literally the first case she'd ever been the lead on. She's absolutely a rookie lawyer, and they stated that outright.

So; is it Hollywood fake-law bullshit, or is it Jen being (*ahem*) green at this and still trying to find her footing? Or more likely a bit of both.

I don't think we were ever sold the idea that Walters was an amazing top-shelf lawyer who was making big waves prior to the accident. It's weird seeing her criticised against that standard.

[eschatological]

That seems incredibly unlikely. Not sure how someone could get to the point of going through the prep for law school let alone actually going without finding out how different the legal system is from tv.

I know people who went to law school because they had a liberal arts bachelor's degree and wanted a good paying job, with literally 0 knowledge of the legal system.

Now, I was exaggerating for effect, which is why I put a "lol" at the end of it. I was quite clear how fucked up our legal system is well before I was in law school. I was a social worker and an activist first. But there are definitely people who go into law school with a Hollywood version of the legal system in their heads.

[Witchblade77]

I think it's more that people see "lawyers" as somehow infallible or something. Look at some of the big cases hitting the news, like Alex Jones' cases, or Trump's lawyers, or the mass shooting sentencing trial where the defense team just decided to rest without calling like half their 80+ witnesses, earning a dressing-down from the judge. Those are bigger issues, IMO, than what we see Jen flubbing, and these lawyers are getting picked up by fairly big clients, for public-interest cases.

And a reminder that when we opened, Jen was an assistant DA and we were seeing literally the first case she'd ever been the lead on. She's absolutely a rookie lawyer, and they stated that outright.

So; is it Hollywood fake-law bullshit, or is it Jen being (*ahem*) green at this and still trying to find her footing? Or more likely a bit of both.

I don't think we were ever sold the idea that Walters was an amazing top-shelf lawyer who was making big waves prior to the accident. It's weird seeing her criticised against that standard.

I'm not expecting her to be the best lawyer. I'm expecting her to be believably competent. I'm expecting her to be qualified. yes lawyers mess up, though "Tinfoil hat on" I have to wonder if Alex Jones' lawyer messed on and sabotaged his own case on purpose, because... its Alex Jones.

but like... and i absolutely have to blame it on the writers, we simultaneously see Jen working hard and being studious, and yet... she also seems consistently unprepared? even without understanding the intricacies of legal system, the writing for her seems to be all over the place as far as her professional competence goes.

I'm thrown out of narrative not because she is unrealistic, but because she is not believable.

[Biomega]

But there are definitely people who go into law school with a Hollywood version of the legal system in their heads.

I teach in the humanities, and I have absolutely advised undergrads who were considering a switch to law with zero or less than zero knowledge about it beyond "it'll pay the bills better than this". It's far from uncommon, unfortunately.

But you could probably make similar cases for many other fields, too. Hollywood likes it simple and splashy, and people are shocked when they find out defibrillators DON'T in fact just magically bring people back from the dead. And so on.

At the end of the day, it's about how entertaining something is. That's a subjective measure, and to some people preposterous misrepresentations of a profession or activity will be more important than to others. Me personally, for example, I go through the roof when TV shows start doing quotation battles. Oh this convenience store robber is quoting Plato now? And of course the alcoholic NYPD detective knows the quote, and has one of his own ready to respond. I'm a literature professor. I hang out with other literature professors. We do this for a living, and WE don't have quotes loaded to fire off like that. Fuck you.

That's just how TV works, I guess.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

So; is it Hollywood fake-law bullshit, or is it Jen being (*ahem*) green at this and still trying to find her footing? Or more likely a bit of both.

I don't think we were ever sold the idea that Walters was an amazing top-shelf lawyer who was making big waves prior to the accident. It's weird seeing her criticised against that standard.

Well, the thing about that one case she was lead on...we are lead to believe that, before she hulked out, she had pretty much won the case. But we don't really have any details about exactly what she did to put her ahead.

There are mitigating factors for her performance though.

1) None of these cases have given her time for preparation.
2) She's new to private practice.
3) She's heading up a brand new department that is dealing with a lot of brand new law.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

I watched a "Legal Eagle" (I suck at names but I THINK that's the name of the laywer's channel - he does all sorts of "real law" talks about tv/movies and entertainment industry) on SHe-Hulk and that's pretty much what he said.

He enjoyed the show for its humor; but, and I'm paraphrasing from him here - nothing about the law in this show is 'realistic' or 'legally correct'. Nothing wrong with that (his opinion and mine too really) and the show is fun - but the court room scenes aren't really attempting to portray "real life" or "real law" accurately.

He breaks down scenes in the first episode or two I think, very briefly as his channel's focus isn't to slam on any media or anything really negative (So he's not trying to bait views by being a show hater) but the take away was "sitcom" level of law writing and nothing more.

Just for your FYI - your validation that you are correct - the writers aren't really attempting to write 'real world' law in any way.

Whether that's a good thing, a bad thing, or 'don't care' is up to the viewer.

edited to add: I didn't realize when I responded that the thread had already moved on another 15 pages. Sorry about that...feel free to not respond, it doesn't need clarification =D

Didn't showrunners make a point about studying legal cases in order to portray them correctly in the show, though?
If yes, seems like they either failed at that, or ditched the idea.