[TV] She-Hulk: Attorney at Law (*SPOILERS*)

[Mehrunes]

True, the more you deny critical thought the less it will exist. In your bubble at least. Sure you can live in your fantasy world where everyone loves the show except for me, but that is all it is. A fantasy.
The viewer ratings are rather clear, the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score is at a pityful 39%, compared to say Ms. Marvel, which is at 80%. Critics are ripping the show apart left and right. But no, that is all in my head.

Yeah, I'm sure the critics spent a lot of time on how the show totally hates men. Pure critical thought right here.

Again, I founded my argument on scenes of the show. Posted here. That you somehow can watch this show and miss 50% of each episode does not make me a liar.

You making shit up like how Jen beat Bruce in rock-throwing, which is what started your whiny "woe is men" BS in this thread, does make you a liar thought. And no matter how hard you try to magically alter reality, but by just ignoring the actual reason you're being called a liar you won't stop being a liar.

[Kathandira]

Having watched another episode of Resident Alien the other day, I found myself drawing some parallels between that one and the She-Shrek shitshow.

Both are based on comic books, both are (supposedly) a comedy, both push a certain agenda-driven narrative at times(all times for she-shrek), but with Resident Alien, it feels like a lot less hamfisted and quite lighthearted. Alien makes me chuckle occasionally, or blow out in a mighty giggle from time to time with occasional snickers here and there.
All in all, I find Resident Alien to be vastly superior, if goofy and corny at times.
Also, Alan Tydik > cgi atrocity that is she-shrek
@Raisei ,
/brofist

So you have found that the show just isn't for you. It doesn't speak to you in a way to keep your interest.

That is fine, everyone is entitled to that opinion. I am getting there myself with the show as well.

But that is all that is needed to be said, that the show doesn't target your interests. You are spending more minutes here than the entire run time of the show so far attempting to convince others that the show is not good. Is this really worth your time and energy? Why not spend the time spent here, in a thread regarding a show you DO like? i'm sure you will have a much more enjoyable experience if you did. And you wouldn't be wasting the time of others in this thread who are trying to discuss a show that they like.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

So you have found that the show just isn't for you. It doesn't speak to you in a way to keep your interest.

That is fine, everyone is entitled to that opinion. I am getting there myself with the show as well.

But that is all that is needed to be said, that the show doesn't target your interests. You are spending more minutes here than the entire run time of the show so far attempting to convince others that the show is not good. Is this really worth your time and energy? Why not spend the time spent here, in a thread regarding a show you DO like? i'm sure you will have a much more enjoyable experience if you did. And you wouldn't be wasting the time of others in this thread who are trying to discuss a show that they like.

1. I will be the one to decide what's needed to say.
2. I will be the one to decide how to spend my time.
3. I do not convince noone, I am just sharing my opinion; if my opinion makes at least a single person flinch away from the show, or resonate with me, it makes it even more worth my while.
4. I want to discuss the show, I will discuss the show, in a way I see fit, whether I like the show or not, as me liking it or not is irrelevant to the point of discussion; there is no prerequisite to like the show to be eligible for the discussion.
5. So when people of opposite opinions argue, they're wasting their time, gotcha.

[Darththeo]

1. I will be the one to decide what's needed to say.
2. I will be the one to decide how to spend my time.
3. I do not convince noone, I am just sharing my opinion; if my opinion makes at least a single person flinch away from the show, or resonate with me, it makes it even more worth my while.
4. I want to discuss the show, I will discuss the show, in a way I see fit, whether I like the show or not, as me liking it or not is irrelevant to the point of discussion; there is no prerequisite to like the show to be eligible for the discussion.
5. So when people of opposite opinions argue, they're wasting their time, gotcha.

Number 4 is false. You don't actually want to discuss the show, you want to discuss how you view the show which is something entirely different.

And Number 1 isn't just for you to decide on a message board with rules. And isn't something you actually determine, you determine what you want to say, not what needs to be said. There is no need for anyone to share their opinion here, it is all about wants. And what Kath means by needed is how to say what you wanted to say in the shortest and clearest path.

And Number 3 just appears dishonest, if you were just "sharing your opinion" you would not need to misrepresent the show and make half the comments you do. You come across as intending to convince others to your viewpoint being the "correct" opinion all while misrepresenting what the show says and does. It is fine if you don't like it and fine if the show made you personally feel that way, but claiming that the show is saying something based on how you feel is dishonest.

And yes, arguing over opinions is literally a waste of time far more often than not, especially when it comes to television shows or movies. Doesn't mean it shouldn't be done, but anyone who thinks arguing over opinions on a tv show is something other than a waste of time needs to re-evaluate. This plays into Number 2, yes, you have every right to waste your time, but that doesn't mean it isn't a waste of time.

[Kathandira]

1. I will be the one to decide what's needed to say.
2. I will be the one to decide how to spend my time.
3. I do not convince noone, I am just sharing my opinion; if my opinion makes at least a single person flinch away from the show, or resonate with me, it makes it even more worth my while.
4. I want to discuss the show, I will discuss the show, in a way I see fit, whether I like the show or not, as me liking it or not is irrelevant to the point of discussion; there is no prerequisite to like the show to be eligible for the discussion.
5. So when people of opposite opinions argue, they're wasting their time, gotcha.

Hey, I was just making a suggestion.

With that, I will continue to report you for trolling as you are providing no useful contribution, are derailing, and making things up. And of course, the use of alternate accounts to circumvent moderation.

[Witchblade77]

you know... I've been trying to actualy discuss the show and a little bit of discussion happens only to be drowned out by the rehashing of the same. tired. complaints. and arguments that have been taking up pages and pages and pages and pages, sidetracking any actual discussion.

its exhausting. aren't you all exhausted? these few people will continue to shit on this show in the same tired way over and over AS LONG AS THEY GET RESPONSE. and yes, I'm aware that I myself allowed myself to be drawn into this insanity on multiple occasions. but like... what are you all getting out of this other then wasting time and energy? and I'm asking those that continue to respond despite having established weeks ago, that no good faith discussion is going to happen here. let them stew in their victim complex and their choice to waste time on shitting all over a tv show instead of I don't know.. spending that time watching something they like.

we do not have to keep responding to them.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

Hey, I was just making a suggestion.

With that, I will continue to report you for trolling as you are providing no useful contribution, are derailing, and making things up. And of course, the use of alternate accounts to circumvent moderation.

Thank you for your suggestions. They were duly noted.
Speaking of derailment, what would you call a person who, in a thread that's dedicated to discussion of a tv show, starts to discuss another person and his motives instead of said show?
The last bit about alternate accounts is something I would like you to elaborate on, via PM as not to, ahem, derail the thread any further with your personal "suggestions" that have not been asked of you.

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you know... I've been trying to actualy discuss the show and a little bit of discussion happens only to be drowned out by the rehashing of the same. tired. complaints. and arguments that have been taking up pages and pages and pages and pages, sidetracking any actual discussion.

its exhausting. aren't you all exhausted? these few people will continue to shit on this show in the same tired way over and over AS LONG AS THEY GET RESPONSE. and yes, I'm aware that I myself allowed myself to be drawn into this insanity on multiple occasions. but like... what are you all getting out of this other then wasting time and energy? and I'm asking those that continue to respond despite having established weeks ago, that no good faith discussion is going to happen here. let them stew in their victim complex and their choice to waste time on shitting all over a tv show instead of I don't know.. spending that time watching something they like.

we do not have to keep responding to them.

as a good will gesture, how would you imagine a polite, fruitful discussion between the ones who like the show and the ones who don't?
Putting humor/comedy bit aside, as we can all agree, I suppose, that humor is subjective.

[Biomega]

how would you imagine a polite, fruitful discussion between the one who like the show and the ones who don't?

That's actually quite simple to answer. There's two prongs:

1. If people are only interested in airing their opinions: no discussion needs to happen, least of all a fruitful ones. We all just acknowledge that some people like it and some people do not, and move on.

2. If people are actually interested in subjecting their position for critique and/or trying to convince other people of their position: a discussion can now commence, in which the task for all participants is to first present their positions as arguments, not opinions - i.e. to equip them with justification and reasoning, and offer that up to critique by others (to which they can then respond with more reasoning and justification).

What you CANNOT do is to present 1. and ask for the process of 2., i.e. clad yourself in the unassailability of "that's just my opinion" but expect it to be convincing and/or to be taken as an argument by others.

Them's the choices. You get to pick.

[Kathandira]

you know... I've been trying to actualy discuss the show and a little bit of discussion happens only to be drowned out by the rehashing of the same. tired. complaints. and arguments that have been taking up pages and pages and pages and pages, sidetracking any actual discussion.

its exhausting. aren't you all exhausted? these few people will continue to shit on this show in the same tired way over and over AS LONG AS THEY GET RESPONSE. and yes, I'm aware that I myself allowed myself to be drawn into this insanity on multiple occasions. but like... what are you all getting out of this other then wasting time and energy? and I'm asking those that continue to respond despite having established weeks ago, that no good faith discussion is going to happen here. let them stew in their victim complex and their choice to waste time on shitting all over a tv show instead of I don't know.. spending that time watching something they like.

we do not have to keep responding to them.

You are totally right. I have put that poster on ignore. They will not receive any further responses from me.

Onto the show. I am very interested in seeing what kind of Dare Devil we get.

I'm getting reboot vibes, rather than continuation. The Yellow Suit is a very early Dare Devil costume. Which leads me to thing, they are starting over.

[Endus]

as a good will gesture, how would you imagine a polite, fruitful discussion between the ones who like the show and the ones who don't?
Putting humor/comedy bit aside, as we can all agree, I suppose, that humor is subjective.

1> Whether you like the show or not is personal and subjective. Suggesting other people should not like the show, that it's "bad", that it's pushing an agenda, those aren't personally subjective things. They're claims of objective truth.

2> Dishonesty on any level is a demonstration of direct disrespect towards your audience. The moment you've lied about the facts of what's actually been shown on the show, you've already demonstrated you are hostile to the idea of polite, fruitful discussion, and are in fact here with malicious intent and no respect for other posters. Any insistence that "well, that's how I interpret it/my opinion" just doubles down on that dishonesty and eliminates any chance that it was simply you getting something wrong.

If you're going to come in and predicate your position on claims that are false, there's no "discussion" to be had with you.

Also;
3> When a show like this has a lot of fans and a lot of critical acclaim, and you come in calling it an "atrocity" as you most recently did, that also shows a pretty wild lack of respect. It's again not really a subjective claim. It's intentionally emotional language meant to elicit a reaction. Whether by vastly exaggerating your casual dislike, or by intentionally offending those who enjoy it. And either way, that lack of respect is again, not "polite" and is not a demonstration of interest in "discussion".

You (and others) keep getting taken to task by everyone else in here because of the consistent disrespect and dishonesty you've shown us. If you want polite discussion, that is what has to change. And no, not just by moving forward from here. The damage is already done, and it has to be repaired first if you actually want to move forward.

[Witchblade77]

You are totally right. I have put that poster on ignore. They will not receive any further responses from me.

Onto the show. I am very interested in seeing what kind of Dare Devil we get.

I'm getting reboot vibes, rather than continuation. The Yellow Suit is a very early Dare Devil costume. Which leads me to thing, they are starting over.

I think you might be right, which makes me sad because while they did keep the same actor for Kingpin, and I believe Punisher, we may end up with recast or nonexistent Foggy and Karen and I freaking loved original casting for both of them

as a good will gesture, how would you imagine a polite, fruitful discussion between the ones who like the show and the ones who don't?
Putting humor/comedy bit aside, as we can all agree, I suppose, that humor is subjective.

since this has an appearance of good faith, I'm going to answer though I do agree with above options you were given to a degree.

if you are going to make an interpretation claim - use actual show quotes/scenes to back it up and explain WHY you think those quotes mean what you interpret them to mean. regardless of whether its a positive or negative interpretation - back it up, don't just make a claim on a basis of someone esle's second hand opinion and expect it to be taken seriously. this is basic literary analysis.

now if you are just saying - I don't like this show, I don't find it funny etc - that's your preference and you do not have to back it up, but this is also not something up for discussion. its just personal preference, there is nothing there TO discuss, you like or dislike what you do. but if you are starting to go into specifics like "I think its bad because of this, this and this?" back it up. back it up with show quotes, back it up with actual first hand examples. and don't act surprised or offended when people disagree, because that's the thing about interpretations. NONE of them are the one true analysis. until/unless the creators themselves unequivocally state their intentions? you cannot claim something to be their intention and expect not to be challenged on it. you. do. not. know. without them stating it. you are only assuming via your own personal biases. you can say " I think" or "I believe" something is intentional, but you cannot state that "THIS is unequivocally what they meant and if you don' see it, you are wrong"

[Gumble]

Onto the show. I am very interested in seeing what kind of Dare Devil we get.

Charlie Cox told everyone. Its a jokey, silly Daredevil that fits in with the show's theme. There are runs of Daredevil that they can pull from where he is less dour and more funny, but its weird to have Charlie Cox play both versions. It will not be liked by anyone that actually enjoyed his Daredevil show.

But, given the ratings are actually out now, and this show is the least watched of all marvel shows...... maybe nobody is actually watching to care.

Guess all the "troll" posters were proven right, the show has gotten worse and worse and nobody is watching.

/shrug, back to your regularly scheduled pandering

[Endus]

I think you might be right, which makes me sad because while they did keep the same actor for Kingpin, and I believe Punisher, we may end up with recast or nonexistent Foggy and Karen and I freaking loved original casting for both of them

Bernthal's the best Punisher, they'd be fools to recast, unless he's not interested. Same for Elden Henson; he IS Foggy now. It was a great cast overall, I'd hope decisions made are more about the Netflix cast not being interested than not being asked. Same goes for the rest of the Netflix shows other than, of course, Iron Fist. If you want to give Finn Jones 6+ months of fight training, maybe he can take another shot. It's disappointing, because it might be really interesting for Iron Fist to explore the many dimensional pockets of China with Shang Chi; K'un-Lun was only one of 7 cities in the comics, and Ta Lo wasn't one of the 7.

[Kathandira]

I think you might be right, which makes me sad because while they did keep the same actor for Kingpin, and I believe Punisher, we may end up with recast or nonexistent Foggy and Karen and I freaking loved original casting for both of them

I can do without the Karen character. In my opinion, Deborah Ann Woll is a great actress, but jeez they made her cry in nearly every single episode. It got old for me, lol. But if they keep the character, I can't see anyone else in the role due to how amazing Woll player her.

Foggy on the other hand, Elden Henson is irreplaceable, and Foggy is a very central character for Dare Devil. I'd be sad if they recasted him

[Fortress of Arrogance]

That's actually quite simple to answer. There's two prongs:

1. If people are only interested in airing their opinions: no discussion needs to happen, least of all a fruitful ones. We all just acknowledge that some people like it and some people do not, and move on.

2. If people are actually interested in subjecting their position for critique and/or trying to convince other people of their position: a discussion can now commence, in which the task for all participants is to first present their positions as arguments, not opinions - i.e. to equip them with justification and reasoning, and offer that up to critique by others (to which they can then respond with more reasoning and justification).

What you CANNOT do is to present 1. and ask for the process of 2., i.e. clad yourself in the unassailability of "that's just my opinion" but expect it to be convincing and/or to be taken as an argument by others.

Them's the choices. You get to pick.

Thank you for your response.

Let's have a go, shall we?

I'm putting the humor/comedy factor aside from the get-go, as it's quite subjective, but will make a notice that literally all the jokes bar the spandex one in the 1st episode have fallen flat on me. I am not digging the comedy part, not for one bit.

Now then, I'd say the plot feels...empty so far, for lack of a better word. I do not see a story carrying over the whole season, if you get what I mean. These are just random episodes barely tied to each other, barring obvious ties between Blonsky case and Titania case.
Speaking of plot, one of my major grips with the show is that it's supposed(or so I think) to be a superhero show, yet there's barely any action, and it's a distinct vibe off off Jen that she wants nothing to do with superheroics to begin with, but still uses her alter-ego to boost her chances of getting laid or to secure a job. I know you could say there's more to come, but we're already past half the season, and it's quite worrisome, as I see it. Having typed that, I came to realise that I simply haven't established any emotional ties to Jen, not a iota of liking or relating to her and her issues. I do not see her as a likeable character, which can be an additional factor for me to not like the show. I guess it could be well applied to a lot of the shows I've watched: I didn't like the characters of Biba Fett or Obi-Wan in their respective shows. I didn't like Chocolate Eye(nor his sidekick)((nor the insufferable Pugh with her faik rashshan akcent)) in a supposedly "his" show. Same could be applied to Winter Falcon and One-armed Soldier show, or Loki: Era of Crookface, or Moon Douche.
OTOH, ms.Pakistan, while hated by most and having performed poorly, managed to make Kamala a likeable character, and the show suffered from the poor plot mostly.
Ahem, sorry for the tangent there


I will not divulge into male/female representation here, but will just say that I do not like the male representation for now, as well as female. Let that be my opinion that is not to be taken as an argument, yet.
Of course, tastes vary, which is why I cannot fathom how can anyone to grow a liking to Madisynn. Me personally, I found her insufferable and an antithesis for fun.

Speaking of characters, I do not know if it's a smart decision to try and dig deep into MCU characters in hopes of finding any depth, but anyway.
Having went on a tangent of main characters in different shows, I realised there are no characters I could point out as likeable for me.

I do not think it's worth discussing that Jen's CGI is horrendous at times, namely ep.3.

What's to add, sides plot, characters and humor?
There is not enough action to discuss it. I think I quite liked that little fight between Bruce and Jen in the first episode, and am very sorry it was so shortlived and didn't go somewhere more... devastating.
I don't understand why would they re-establish Jen contracting Bruce's blood in such a manner in the same episode, because the new lore of Jen getting "infected" looks like a stretch to me.


There, I tried, I think.
Will add more if anything else comes to mind.

[Witchblade77]

Bernthal's the best Punisher, they'd be fools to recast, unless he's not interested. Same for Elden Henson; he IS Foggy now. It was a great cast overall, I'd hope decisions made are more about the Netflix cast not being interested than not being asked. Same goes for the rest of the Netflix shows other than, of course, Iron Fist. If you want to give Finn Jones 6+ months of fight training, maybe he can take another shot. It's disappointing, because it might be really interesting for Iron Fist to explore the many dimensional pockets of China with Shang Chi; K'un-Lun was only one of 7 cities in the comics, and Ta Lo wasn't one of the 7.

I hope so too, and honestly Finn Jones even just felt... off to me in that role. even outside of fighting scenes, he got overshadowed by basically everyone else he had ever had any scenes with, so I'm not sure fight training would help at all.

according to Rosario Dawson - Bernthal is returning as punisher so here's to hoping she's right Mike Coulter is a gorgeous man and fits the look of Luke Cage, but I found his acting to be a bit... not as good as everyone else around him (and he STILL hella overshadowed Finn Jones). I think WInston Duke would be much MUCH better in that role, but he's already playing M'Baku so that's out.

I really wish they released episodes at midnight in MY timezone, cause then I'd actualy get to see them early instead of much later in a day :P

[Fortress of Arrogance]

I think you might be right, which makes me sad because while they did keep the same actor for Kingpin, and I believe Punisher, we may end up with recast or nonexistent Foggy and Karen and I freaking loved original casting for both of them

It depends, I think.
If we will end up getting the Clownpin(like he was portrayed at the end of the Chocolate Eye series), it'll be sad.
Same goes for Punisher: you cannot strip him off off his ferocity and brutality: I mean, just re-watch the court scene where he snaps and yells that he'll massacre anyone and that's he's THE big bad Punisher - how are you supposed to reign that level of RAGE in for a kid-friendly show?
I'd very much like for Karen and Foggy to return, too.

You are totally right. I have put that poster on ignore. They will not receive any further responses from me.

Insults me directly, namecalls me, insinuates stuff about me and accuses me with no proof whatsoever, then puts me on ignore.
Flawless Victory.

And good riddance, I guess.

[Kathandira]

Charlie Cox told everyone. Its a jokey, silly Daredevil that fits in with the show's theme. There are runs of Daredevil that they can pull from where he is less dour and more funny, but its weird to have Charlie Cox play both versions. It will not be liked by anyone that actually enjoyed his Daredevil show.

But, given the ratings are actually out now, and this show is the least watched of all marvel shows...... maybe nobody is actually watching to care.

Guess all the "troll" posters were proven right, the show has gotten worse and worse and nobody is watching.

/shrug, back to your regularly scheduled pandering

Depends on the reasons.

For me, the show is losing me because it hasn't shown any way to tie into the current story of the MCU. Marvel is going Cosmic. She-Hulk is chillin in California, and has no interest in the Super Hero career. Aside from a show that is there just for fun, I don't see a point to it yet. I'm still watching in hopes the tie in is revealed. Otherwise, at the end of it all, it will go to the bottom of the list of good marvel tv shows.

At least with Ms Marvel, the show ties into an upcoming movie, and furthers the multiversal aspect of the MCU, and most importantly, was the first time Marvel is has used the term Mutant, which opens the door for so much more.

If there is no tie to the larger Marvel story, then I just don't see the point.

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I think WInston Duke would be much MUCH better in that role, but he's already playing M'Baku so that's out.

I never thought about that. And really, that would have been an amazing casting.

[Witchblade77]

I can do without the Karen character. In my opinion, Deborah Ann Woll is a great actress, but jeez they made her cry in nearly every single episode. It got old for me, lol. But if they keep the character, I can't see anyone else in the role due to how amazing Woll player her.

Foggy on the other hand, Elden Henson is irreplaceable, and Foggy is a very central character for Dare Devil. I'd be sad if they recasted him

I would say that's more of a writing issue then anything and she had some fantastic scenes, IMO, especially with Bernthal.

P.S. @ fortress, if you actualy genuinely want a response? stop using insults and use actual show/ actor/character names.

[Biomega]

one of my major grips with the show is that it's supposed(or so I think) to be a superhero show, yet there's barely any action

That depends entirely on what you mean by "superhero show". We've gone deep enough into superheroes as a genre that we can diversify significantly - there's no longer any real justification that would prop up superhero=action as a simple equation. In fact one might argue that this show is at least in part trying to establish precisely that: superhero=action doesn't have the be the only way the genre can function. As such, you are effectively admitting it's doing it's job. And it's not like there's NO action; action just isn't the focus.

I simply haven't established any emotional ties to Jen, not a iota of liking or relating to her and her issues. I do not see her as a likeable character

I do not like the male representation for now, as well as female.

I found her insufferable and an antithesis for fun

no characters I could point out as likeable for me

I think it's pretty clear that you fall within 1. in my initial categorization.

You don't like the show. Cool. Consider that opinion acknowledged. And now we can move on.

P.S.:

OTOH, ms.Pakistan

Perhaps comments like that are why you constantly get into arguments with people.