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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Everywhere in the world we deal with a similar calender, consisting of 12 months and roughly 52 weeks of 7 days. Also universally around the world saturday and sunday are referred to as "the weekend", regardless of wether that entails days off or not.

    In most of the west, we now have the convention of the 7 day week being divided in 5 work days and 2 days off work. Due to the increase in production per person (by better manufacturing methods) some argue that it's time to go to the 4 day work week, giving folks 3 days a week off. On the production side of the spectrum employers claim this would be too drastic a drop in work hours.

    So why not move to 5 workdays and 3 days off?

    As a unit of time, a year is based on our revolution around the sun. A month is (roughly) based on the lunar cycle. A day is based on the revolution of our planet around its own axis. The week is based on... nothing. It is a complete human fabrication.

    Aside from the logistical issues of a worldwide adaptation, what do you think about the concept of this 8 day week?
    What would you call the eighth day

  2. #22
    I'd rather have a 26 hour day.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    45.7 weeks...roughly in a year.
    Every calculation based upon the time schematic would need going over.
    As opposed to 52,14, the numbers don’t fit neatly either way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    What would you call the eighth day
    Superday? Extraday? Premonday? Postsunday?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilbon View Post
    I'd rather have a 26 hour day.
    Would be nice to have longer days… but we’d have to slow down the rotation of the earth.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    As opposed to 52,14, the numbers don’t fit neatly either way.
    Which, again, makes me wonder why you think it needs to be changed?

    What benefit would an 8 day week provide that would make the hassle worthwhile?
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Which, again, makes me wonder why you think it needs to be changed?

    What benefit would an 8 day week provide that would make the hassle worthwhile?
    Like I said in the OP, we currently have a 5 day workweek, meaning we work 5/7 = 71,4%

    Many now advocate for a 4 day workweek, meaning 4/7 = 57,1% work. Thats a pretty steep drop, and one many employers are against.

    With an 8 day week, we could go to a 5/8 ratio, being 62,5%. It would still give people 3 days off, without lowering the ratio too much.

    Given 365 days a year (without taking holidays into account) that results in:

    5/7 = 260 workdays
    4/7 = 208 workdays
    5/8 = 228 workdays
    Last edited by Veggie50; 2022-08-19 at 06:37 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Like I said in the OP, we currently have a 5 day workweek, meaning we work 5/7 = 71,4%

    Many now advocate for a 4 day workweek, meaning 4/7 = 57,1% work. Thats a pretty steep drop, and one many employers are against.

    With an 8 day week, we could go to a 5/8 ratio, being 62,5%. It would still give people 3 days off, without lowering the ratio too much.

    Given 365 days a year (without taking holidays into account) that results in:

    5/7 = 260 workdays
    4/7 = 208 workdays
    5/8 = 228 workdays
    Just seems like a weird way to fix the "problem". Employers are still going to be unhappy with the solution. And I'm not sure why you are counting work days instead of work hours.

    Seems like 4 days at 10 hour days solves both issues cleaner. Employees get 3 days off, Ratio is the same as it was for 5 8-hour days.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Just seems like a weird way to fix the "problem". Employers are still going to be unhappy with the solution. And I'm not sure why you are counting work days instead of work hours.

    Seems like 4 days at 10 hour days solves both issues cleaner. Employees get 3 days off, Ratio is the same as it was for 5 8-hour days.
    Because studies show that 8 hour workdays are already stretching the time humans can be productive. At 10 hour days you would not add much to the productive time of employees.

    It doesn't "solve" the problem, it eases the transition. The current problem is exacerbated by the use of an antiquated calender system.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Because studies show that 8 hour workdays are already stretching the time humans can be productive. At 10 hour days you would not add much to the productive time of employees.

    It doesn't "solve" the problem, it eases the transition. The current problem is exacerbated by the use of an antiquated calender system.
    You can get 100 differnt studies and get 100 different results as to what the "optimal work schedule" is. Some people work better on 8,10, or even 12 hour work days.
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    You can get 100 differnt studies and get 100 different results as to what the "optimal work schedule" is. Some people work better on 8,10, or even 12 hour work days.
    Ah, the old "science can say whatever I want it to say" argument.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=4181072
    https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPa...v=39&id=&page=
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...08179308964295

    A quick google scholar search shows 3 contemporary articles supporting my claim. I suppose you can find me 3 that say the average workday can be set to higher than 8 without negative consequences?

  10. #30
    And yet instead of changing a country's work hours, you want to change a world's calendar system.

  11. #31
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
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    Are we just trying to make a Beatles song chronologically accurate by adding this extra day?
    “You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it.”― Malcolm X

    I watch them fight and die in the name of freedom. They speak of liberty and justice, but for whom? -Ratonhnhaké:ton (Connor Kenway)

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain N View Post
    Are we just trying to make a Beatles song chronologically accurate by adding this extra day?
    Added benefits!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calfredd View Post
    And yet instead of changing a country's work hours, you want to change a world's calendar system.
    Mostly just challenging an arbitrary system that gives no benefits but hinders us.

    Of course I don’t think it’s feasible at this point. The discussion has to start somewhere though ^^

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    As opposed to 52,14, the numbers don’t fit neatly either way.
    It fits because everyone all over the world uses it, and has used it for decades based upon the Gregorian calendar centuries earlier.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubby View Post
    How does that work in the Netherlands? Do you get paid less if work part time? Like on a graduated scale?
    In Greece with the new laws (voted last year) you can work flexible so you can work 4 10hour days if you want and get paid the same.
    We also have right to disconnect (if you are a remote worker you have a reasonable right to not be on your desk for the full time you are working AND your boss cannot bother you outside those hours) as well as special allowances for remote workers (company has to cover some expenses for your utilities/space and even equipment if they do not provide their own).

    Ofc if your company does violate the new laws, good luck going to court given the mess our courts are especially after the pandemic backed them up even more . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Because studies show that 8 hour workdays are already stretching the time humans can be productive. At 10 hour days you would not add much to the productive time of employees.

    It doesn't "solve" the problem, it eases the transition. The current problem is exacerbated by the use of an antiquated calender system.
    A lot of jobs are not about being productive. They are about being present.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    Ah, the old "science can say whatever I want it to say" argument.

    https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=4181072
    https://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPa...v=39&id=&page=
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...08179308964295

    A quick google scholar search shows 3 contemporary articles supporting my claim. I suppose you can find me 3 that say the average workday can be set to higher than 8 without negative consequences?
    I could only read the first one...the other two are behind pay walls so i could only get the abstracts:

    The numerical results show that the widely adopted 8-hour workday standard is generally not optimal for neither the worker nor the employer.
    And here's another important bit:

    The model proposed in this paper could be extended in many directions. For example, this study assumes that the worker fatigue levels at the beginning of the workday are similar to those after the lunch break. Relaxing this assumption is important. Another assumption in this study is that worker fatigue accumulation and recovery are exponential functions. A possible extension of this study, which considers linear functions for both fatigue accumulation and recovery, may lead to a more tractable mathematical model. Furthermore, it was assumed that the worker fatigue lowers the production output of a worker. Including other effects of worker fatigue on other aspects of productivity, such as the defects rate, work incidents, and worker errors, is also a possible extension.
    Kind of straight up says that there are different ways one can use this model..and it's based on a lot of assumptions.

    Second ones abstract:

    the most promising Fair labor Standards act reform proposals, from an individualistic standpoint, would be those ensuring that employers consider individual employee requests for flexibility in the number of hours or the times when the employee is required to work per day or per week
    Third abstract:

    Specifically, we consider the effects of a shorter work-week on productivity and economy and discuss the various patterns of shorter work-week.
    So one says that 8 hours per day is not optimal for the employer or employee (your 5/8 schedule still requires 8 hours)
    The second says that flexibility in the hours worked per day and per week is optimal (5/8 is not anymore flexible than 5/7)
    And the third says that it's looking at different shorter week patterns (but since I can't read the article, I can't see if it reccomends one over the others)

    So, 3 different studies ... 3 different conclusions... which kinda goes along with what I said about studies.

    Here's one I found on 12 hour workshifts which lists both the advantages and disadvantages:

    https://www.calumetelectronics.com/a...e-hour-shifts/

    Another one this time on 10 hour shifts, again listing pros and cons:

    https://toughnickel.com/business/10-...-time-Employee
    Isms bore me. I think they are only brought by people who seek to marginalize the potential of each ism to provide something meaningful. Name it, Capitalism, Socialism, even Communism-- all contain something of merit towards structuring a society. The biggest flaw in human history has been the need to take the worst of a system along with the best. It doesn't have to be all of one and none of another.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Midnight Bomber View Post
    Seems like 4 days at 10 hour days solves both issues cleaner. Employees get 3 days off, Ratio is the same as it was for 5 8-hour days.
    To be honest we should get away from 40 hours a week to be the full time norm.

    This might be a bit conspiracy theory-ish but I think employer opposition to lower that is baked into capitalism as a system. People who work 8+ hours a day and commute another 2-3 don't have much time to do things themselves and instead are obedient little consumers buying all the stuff and pay for services to make their life easier/faster.

  17. #37
    I'd sooner do away with the 8-hour workday than with the 5-day working week.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dark One View Post
    I've always believed that if you don't ask for something you want, you'll never get it.

    My week is structured like this, Mon-Tues: Work, Wed: Off, Thurs-Fri: Work, Sat-Sun: Off.

    So I basically never work more than 2 days in a row. It's great.
    I agree with you - both practically and as a way of living life (if that difference makes sense).

    Well done re your schedule - that is very nice. I think, though, I would rather have the 3-day weekend.

  19. #39
    The issue is that it's a minority of companies that have gone to a 4-day work week, so it's not something that can easily be instituted across the board like this - separate from the calendar change which is another complication. I don't see a calendar change ever happening, see the failure of the metric system to be adopted in the US in the 70's/early 80's for an example. But everyone used to work a 6 day week so the workweek can change, which became 5 days in the 1920's due to unions and worker's rights. Although the unions that got us to a 5-day workweek don't remotely have the same power they did back in the 1920's. It also would need to be a global change because of follow-the-sun and business being very global now, making it even tougher. Forcing all businesses to a 4 workday week apart from a calendar change would be a massive challenge.

    So I'd expect it to continue as-is, which is that companies that are more flexible may allow 4x10 workweeks and many others won't. But that will be on a per-business or even per-team within each business decision as it is now rather than something mandated.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Veggie50 View Post
    As opposed to 52,14, the numbers don’t fit neatly either way.
    But we neatly fit exactly 20871 weeks per 400 year (where 400 years is the leap-year cycle) - which has some interesting consequences!

    The 8-week doesn't fit into that.

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