Page 8 of 11 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Novel idea, if the price is too high you can either make your own or just not buy it.
    Now, if there's too much supply you can sell it for a loss or, you know, not sell it at that time. If supply is too high and you're losing gold on crafting, you have the choice to not make it.

    Just like businesses have the choice not to enter a saturated market. You're just salty you can't gouge everyone any more.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    What do you think stock trading is?

    Exactly what he said
    Quote Originally Posted by h4rr0d View Post
    one of the scummiest ways to get rich. People who do that are literal leeches on the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post

    "Welp, that's just the market setting prices" is a pretty rich argument coming from someone who was just complaining about the market setting prices. You pretty clearly understand that this change fucked people over, but you enjoy it. No need to hide your sadistic glee in seeing people lose economic freedom and class mobility in the game. In the end, all that matters is that you get to buy cheap shit, I get it.
    I'm not hiding anything. Believe me I am thoroughly enjoying this.
    But you know what I did before when the market was in a state I was unhappy with? I shut up and dealt with it. I adjusted my habits to deal with the market as it was. I didn't come to the forums to whine and complain.

    Also "Economic freedom and class mobility"...? This is a game. Comparing me wanting cheap flasks to real life economic inequality is disingenuous at best.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Let's keep this real simple, just answer these 3 questions for me since you're so damn sure of yourself that you want to demonize anyone who wants to make any profit ever.

    What is the magical "fair price" that base goods should be sold for?
    Prices on the AH are great right now.

    What is the exact profit margin that you think people should be allowed to make?
    Considering your profit margin is 100% since you farm the mats yourself, basically what the prices now on the AH.

    How did you decide to come up with the above 2 numbers that makes you so damn sure that it's better than a free market where people decide how much to buy and sell things for?
    What we have now IS a free market. You have tons more people selling things. What you want is a market where you and 3 or 4 others control the prices so you can jack them up. the fact that you think that 3 or 4 people controlling the price is a "free market" is humorous.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by fatgunn View Post
    I'm not hiding anything. Believe me I am thoroughly enjoying this.
    But you know what I did before when the market was in a state I was unhappy with? I shut up and dealt with it. I adjusted my habits to deal with the market as it was. I didn't come to the forums to whine and complain.

    Also "Economic freedom and class mobility"...? This is a game. Comparing me wanting cheap flasks to real life economic inequality is disingenuous at best.
    No, instead you came to forums to whine and complain about other people whining and complaining.

    Did you read the 3 words after what you "quoted" me saying before making the "real life" comment? Fuck man, maybe you should try getting a job as a journalist or a political commentator. Your hypocritical hatred of people with money and quoting people out of context is prime for that market.

    Quote Originally Posted by Smashfist View Post
    Now, if there's too much supply you can sell it for a loss or, you know, not sell it at that time. If supply is too high and you're losing gold on crafting, you have the choice to not make it.

    Just like businesses have the choice not to enter a saturated market. You're just salty you can't gouge everyone any more.
    The complaint isn't just that supply is too high, but that the market was intentionally flooded because the morons at Bliz decided it was a great idea. Someone at Blizzard apparently shares this forums disgust because they stealth increased the cost of certain goods off the vendor so people couldn't even craft gear to vendor for profit after they crashed their own AH.

    Again, and making this very clear. My issue is that an AH merge is that it intentionally floods the market, which in turn crippled peoples capacity to make real money (at least in a timely manner). Real money being the point where you could sustain your own gameplay by buying a token every month with gold. The most I've gotten from your side is "Good, people should suffer and not be able to make money because I'd rather buy cheap stuff", which blatant hedonism and schadenfreude isn't really a compelling argument to me.

    I mean seriously, this is Walmart moving into a small town and forcing the local businesses to close, and you guys cheering on Walmart. It's just mind boggling to me, and none of ya'll are providing any convincing arguments of why it's a good thing. I asked 3 pretty simple questions that no one seems willing to touch except with an answer that invalidates your own complaints of the previous market. Simultaneously saying the market sets the prices so deal with it, but also getting that dig in on those evil capitalists who profited off market prices before the market got flooded.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    Let's keep this real simple, just answer these 3 questions for me since you're so damn sure of yourself that you want to demonize anyone who wants to make any profit ever.

    What is the magical "fair price" that base goods should be sold for?

    What is the exact profit margin that you think people should be allowed to make?

    How did you decide to come up with the above 2 numbers that makes you so damn sure that it's better than a free market where people decide how much to buy and sell things for?
    Pointless questions. You're just upset the markets for any particular commodity are too large to price fix/manipulate now. There is a reason that nearly all your little bs strats are illegal in real life markets.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Prices on the AH are great right now.

    Considering your profit margin is 100% since you farm the mats yourself, basically what the prices now on the AH.

    What we have now IS a free market. You have tons more people selling things. What you want is a market where you and 3 or 4 others control the prices so you can jack them up. the fact that you think that 3 or 4 people controlling the price is a "free market" is humorous.
    Saying prices are good now isn't an answer to what the price of base goods should be. You must have some number in mind because you were so vigorous in denouncing people charging too much for goods. Let's make this more specific, What should be the price of Widowbloom? It's currently around 12g, and before the merge it usually sat around 40g on my server. I'm assuming you like the 12g price better because it's cheaper for you, but is the time someone spends flying in circles farming Widowbloom really worth about 1/4 what it was a couple months ago?

    Profit margins were brought up because you took umbrage with people "price gouging". Profit margins can only be calculated when there is a cost otherwise the margin of profit compared to costs is infinite. If we're talking base goods, the profit margin would be calculated based off labor costs. It would be simpler to look at flasks rather than trade goods in this case. Flasks for instance used to have a margin of -10% to +30%, and now roughly have a margin of -2% to +5%. I understand I'm asking someone who seems to have no idea what price gouging even is or how profit margins are calculated, but of these numbers or ranges, specifically what should people be allowed to upcharge before you consider it gouging? 5%? 10%? 20%?

    We have a "free" market that has been intentionally flooded with goods whilst also having no transportation costs, tariffs, etc. What this new market has done is opened up competition between whales and bots that has driven prices to rock bottom and devastated the lower/middle income earning block. You keep making this about me just wanting to be greedy (a fucking amazing argument from someone who just wants to buy everything cheaply), but my argument has been from the start that this change significantly increases the time it takes for people to make gold effectively unless you already have millions of gold and can work on large scale. People deciding they want to get into playing the market are in a much worse position than 2 months ago.

    (edit bolded for clarity)
    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranis View Post
    Pointless questions. You're just upset the markets for any particular commodity are too large to price fix/manipulate now. There is a reason that nearly all your little bs strats are illegal in real life markets.
    What strategies are those? My whole strategy for making money this expansion has been buying goods from suppliers at the cheapest prices I can so that I can sell finished product at market rate. What about that incredibly common business strategy in real life is "Bullshit" or "Illegal"?

  7. #147
    Bloodsail Admiral bowchikabow's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    The teacup which holds the tempest
    Posts
    1,193
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    Prices on the AH are great right now.
    The prices are great right NOW. That will change.


    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    What we have now IS a free market. You have tons more people selling things. What you want is a market where you and 3 or 4 others control the prices so you can jack them up. the fact that you think that 3 or 4 people controlling the price is a "free market" is humorous.
    Yes, this, but now you ALSO have a problem of everyone and their mother posting mats from all over the region, with the prices constantly constantly falling by tiny increments, but never really stopping. I spent 2hrs reposting herbs before finally just giving up for the night. couldn't go more than 2min without there being a hundred listings that were 1 or 2silver lower, with listing having dozens of that herb.

    This has and will have created a level of degeneracy that will make RWF guilds blush.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Goatfish View Post
    - - - Updated - - -



    What strategies are those? My whole strategy for making money this expansion has been buying goods from suppliers at the cheapest prices I can so that I can sell finished product at market rate. What about that incredibly common business strategy in real life is "Bullshit" or "Illegal"?
    The content of your previous posts would suggest otherwise. Not buying your bs, or your auctions. Friend.

  9. #149
    Immortal FuxieDK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    København
    Posts
    7,907
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    This change is ONLY good for those who never gonna engage with the economy or dont care about professions/gold in WoW. This sucks ass, and I knew it would as soon as it was announced. Im just glad I grinded hard on the AH since WOD, having bought a lot over the years, but also still having a modest 36.5 million atm. Which is not even close to being a lot, in fact its normal from my POV...

    Its all a ploy to remove ways to make gold in wow to increase wow token sale...
    There is nothing modest over 36,5M gold. It's most likely 0,1 percentile, and you bloody well know that.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > ShaLa > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

    My pet collection --> http://www.warcraftpets.com/collection/FuxieDK/

  10. #150
    The Insane Ielenia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Brazil
    Posts
    18,772
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    SO you want to become a whale.And it is also laziness. You want gold handed to you. That makes this change even better. Players get reasonable prices, and the gougers actually have to put in effort to make gold instead of bending people over on the AH. Win/win.
    I don't "play" the AH, I just put the leftover mats and extra consumables I make/find in the AH when I can...

    But I have to admit it's a bit disheartening to see, for example, an item I'm putting in the AH is listed as 1 gold at its cheapest during the evening, and then goes for 20 silver or less in the very next morning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons and as a last, drastic measure.
    Oof...

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    I am amused how everyone continue to try to spin things into blizzard making money. It is a ridiculous stretch.
    Its a stretch that blizzard, a profit driven company want to make profit? In what world?

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Soon-TM View Post
    If AHs weren't merged, the new crafting system of DF would be almost certainly DoA, aside from maybe a handful of megaservers. Unfortunately, it has unforeseen (?) side effects like the one you are describing.
    you think it's gonna work as envisioned?
    Wrath baby and proud of it

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    Things being cheap, how is that bad? Means I don’t need to boost to afford to BOES for competitive raiding. The money I save from all this will go towards those BOEs!
    Gold sellers can't make money on it. That is the real complaint people have. It is effecting their real life wallets.

  14. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    There is nothing modest over 36,5M gold. It's most likely 0,1 percentile, and you bloody well know that.
    Say that to the people who made 250 million gold in SL selling lego's on 3 realms, migrating mats etc. I know what is normal and what is not. 36 is not a lot in my AH game.
    Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/djuntas ARPG - RTS - MMO
    NZXT H440 - Asus Z97 A Mobo - Corsair RM 850 - Intel I5 4590 CPU - Evo TX3 Cooler Master - Asus 970 Strix - 250GB SSD 850 Evo - Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD - Windows 10

  15. #155
    Scarab Lord
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    One path
    Posts
    4,706
    While it's great now, 1% are hating it while 99% are enjoying it, I can't shake the feeling that these will be the other way around come DF...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Say that to the people who made 250 million gold in SL selling lego's on 3 realms, migrating mats etc. I know what is normal and what is not. 36 is not a lot in my AH game.
    You're comparing a couple hundred to a thousand goblins/whales to hundreds of thousands if not millions of players though... The average player is hardly a millionaire ingame let alone multimillionaire.
    If you knew the candle was fire then the meal was cooked a long time ago.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post

    Considering your profit margin is 100% since you farm the mats yourself, basically what the prices now on the AH.

    .
    that's not how labor works

    Anyway I feel like a lot of folks need to take a few minutes to put a value on their time. I realized somewhere back in BFA that even stopping to pick herbs was not worth my time. If you actually do real calculations for how much gold you make per second, it's like worse than a minimum wage job. If you aren't making the equivalent of at least one wow token for an hour of farming, it's definitely not worth it (and most people can't do that).

    Now if someone enjoys farming, great - the value you get is your own enjoyment. But in terms of economics it's actually pretty irrational for most adults to do anything but buy a token if they need the gold for something.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  17. #157
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Somewhere where canon still exists
    Posts
    9,183
    Quote Originally Posted by saixilein View Post
    Then pick not the first Item, take one 1-2 gold more expensive.
    But...but...but? Paying 999 gold, 99 silver, and 99 copper is so crucial...it's game breaking if I don't save that 1 copper!

  18. #158
    If they purged all the bots itd be far more useful, but these cockroaches have been around so long and so so common i don't even know if they canget rid anymore

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    that's not how labor works

    Anyway I feel like a lot of folks need to take a few minutes to put a value on their time. I realized somewhere back in BFA that even stopping to pick herbs was not worth my time. If you actually do real calculations for how much gold you make per second, it's like worse than a minimum wage job. If you aren't making the equivalent of at least one wow token for an hour of farming, it's definitely not worth it (and most people can't do that).

    Now if someone enjoys farming, great - the value you get is your own enjoyment. But in terms of economics it's actually pretty irrational for most adults to do anything but buy a token if they need the gold for something.
    Yea, that's basically my complaint. It was already definitely not worth it to herb/skin/mine from a monetary standpoint, but we've taken that little bit of incentive and cut it by 300% or more in some cases. Instead of making what may have been $1 an hour, we've cut it to $0.33 or less. This just incentivizes botting, and does nothing to the massive gold stocks whales already have. Instead of dealing with 3-10 whales per server, now you get to compete against 1000+ who drive margins down to oblivion because it's no problem for them to spend 8 hours a day crafting on razor thin margins, but it makes it way harder for the average player to earn a little pocket change.

    But apparently some people think this is a good thing. The rich still have the base capital to make loads of money (I mean, I made 20k in profits in a couple hours flipping 400k worth of mats to flasks this morning doing it casually, and I'm no whale at a measly 2m gold). The people getting into the market game to earn some cash could do the same thing as me on a much smaller level, but the time and effort they would need to spend to get to what I consider middle class has been greatly increased.

    Much respect to the people who actually farm trade goods to keep the markets functional. I still keep herbalism for the minor dopamine hit of basically finding spare change on the ground, but anyone pretending it's actually profitable now without botting are just ignorant. I have my doubts that next expansion is going to fix anything. There will be some opportunity for profit in the first month or so as always, then I imagine we'll be back in the same oversaturated market we're in now, maybe worse with more active players.

  20. #160
    Df is around the corner and soon SL mats are worthless. Now blizz should mass ban bots and multiboxers then the markets for gatherers would get better. Even better would be a gold reset

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •