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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Lets say one of them could live. Was she supposed to die and abandon the other kids but its the more noble (not even) thing to do?

    Scenario A: Save baby, 3 kids no longer have a mother.

    Scenario B: Save Laena, 2 kids have a mother and she can try again.

    Come on.
    Erm. It is stated very clearly that she would not survive childbirth, by the 'knife' or otherwise. How are you even making a scenario B in that situation? I'm not discussing abortion or women rights, in case that wasn't clear, just the episode of the tv show.
    Last edited by hulkgor; 2022-10-01 at 12:01 AM.

  2. #442
    I think the discussion is veering into a political one, which is a shame because this is one of the few threads that isn't taken over yet. I think we really need to stay on topic discussing the show. Its actual events and not personal beliefs.

    I'll just say that many times when a unborn child in labor can't pass naturally the mother's contractions become more and more severe the child many times is in a wrong position and suffer bradycardia and ultimately death. I think in all likelihood that's probably what happen with Laena

  3. #443
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Erm. It is stated very clearly that she would not survive childbirth, by the 'knife' or otherwise. How are you even making a scenario B in that situation? I'm not discussing abortion or women rights, in case that wasn't clear, just the episode of the tv show.
    Thats why I said

    Lets say

    because you said

    Pretty hard to believe a mother would let her child die when there was a chance for her to survive
    Its a hypothetical based on what you said.

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  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    Thats why I said

    Lets say

    because you said



    Its a hypothetical based on what you said.
    You seem confused. The whole premise, and argument, is about a woman (Laena) that will surely die in childbirth, deciding to kill herself -and- the baby when there was a chance (regardless of how slim) for the baby to survive by 'the knife' procedure.

    You either didn't read it all, or just decided to cut and quote a random part of the argument in isolation. Context matters.

    Won't discuss this further, people just seem to want to instigate weird fights and impose their world views on others, which seems odd on a game-based message board. So yea, you win, whatever.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Won't discuss this further, people just seem to want to instigate weird fights and impose their world views on others, which seems odd on a game-based message board. So yea, you win, whatever.
    Well it was pretty grotesque of you to suggest that she was being a bad mother by not consenting to be painfully carved up for what everyone in the room seemed to understand was likely to be a fruitless endeavor.

  6. #446
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    Well it was pretty grotesque of you to suggest that she was being a bad mother by not consenting to be painfully carved up for what everyone in the room seemed to understand was likely to be a fruitless endeavor.
    Most mothers would do that, painfully carve themselves for the sake of the life of their children, even with slim chances, especially if they knew they would not live anyway. I would say other adjectives instead of "grotesque" for it.

    And she seems like the mother that would do that, in fact, i though they did it and she went to die with the dragons

  7. #447
    All that talk about why she would Dracarys herself instead of saving the child... don't you think it's a possibility she knows the child is dead? After months of it kicking about inside of her, even after hours of labor she might simply realize nothing is moving anymore.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    All that talk about why she would Dracarys herself instead of saving the child... don't you think it's a possibility she knows the child is dead? After months of it kicking about inside of her, even after hours of labor she might simply realize nothing is moving anymore.
    We would consider that, if the show would have presented that possibility, regardless of how subtle, which it didn't. At least to my understanding.

  9. #449
    This show is all over the place while at the same time not gripping or interesting. I feel this show clearly lives off of GoT, even though the ending there was shite. So what can we expect in the future here? 95% family drama in Kings landing?

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    This show is all over the place while at the same time not gripping or interesting. I feel this show clearly lives off of GoT, even though the ending there was shite. So what can we expect in the future here? 95% family drama in Kings landing?
    Nah, Rhaenyra already went to Dragonstone with her entire family. I wouldn't really expect it in this season just yet, but the families will fight all over the Westeros.

    It's just tricky because they have to do the exposion right, the problem is the conflict slowly grows over centuries before it blows up into a civil war. That's why there are so many time jumps. It will definitely get better when the boys grow up, especially Aemond.

  11. #451
    The ridiculous casting choices ended up being the least of the problems for this show somehow. It’s riddled with a drab ugly color palette and the level of violence is hilarious. The moment everyone started killing each other at the tournament like barbarians, I knew the people that wrote the show didn’t respect source material considering Dunk and Egg goes out of its way to explain how tournaments work. Violence porn, no thanks.

    The moment Daemon hit the other lancers horse and that somehow didn’t get him disqualified was all I needed to know about the show LOL
    Last edited by Godric; 2022-10-01 at 09:43 PM.
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  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most mothers would do that, painfully carve themselves for the sake of the life of their children, even with slim chances, especially if they knew they would not live anyway. I would say other adjectives instead of "grotesque" for it.

    And she seems like the mother that would do that, in fact, i though they did it and she went to die with the dragons
    I’m pretty sure you have no idea what “most mothers would do” in that sort of situation. Fortunately, it’s not a situation that most people ever have to go through nowadays.

    Even in the first episode mirror scene with Queen Aemma it’s made painfully obvious that this is NOT a choice a good mother and woman who has dedicated her life to producing children would necessarily willingly take. Especially in a setting like this (similar to real world historical times) where infant mortality rates are so high.

    So yeah, I’ll absolutely stand by my calling it grotesque to imply that it would be an EXPECTATION of any woman to put herself through that.
    Last edited by Adamas102; 2022-10-01 at 11:36 PM.

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most mothers would do that, painfully carve themselves for the sake of the life of their children, even with slim chances, especially if they knew they would not live anyway. I would say other adjectives instead of "grotesque" for it.

    And she seems like the mother that would do that, in fact, i though they did it and she went to die with the dragons
    As a mother, if I was in that situation, I’m taking death by my dragon…
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  14. #454
    The Unstoppable Force PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    You seem confused. The whole premise, and argument, is about a woman (Laena) that will surely die in childbirth, deciding to kill herself -and- the baby when there was a chance (regardless of how slim) for the baby to survive by 'the knife' procedure.

    You either didn't read it all, or just decided to cut and quote a random part of the argument in isolation. Context matters.

    Won't discuss this further, people just seem to want to instigate weird fights and impose their world views on others, which seems odd on a game-based message board. So yea, you win, whatever.
    All you had to do was walk back your statement

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  15. #455
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamas102 View Post
    I’m pretty sure you have no idea what “most mothers would do” in that sort of situation.
    Lol, and you do? get down from your high horse a bit.


    Even in the first episode mirror scene with Queen Aemma it’s made painfully obvious that this is NOT a choice a good mother and woman who has dedicated her life to producing children would necessarily willingly take.
    Good thing i never said all mothers would willingly do, especially in a situation where she is in a state of no clear mind.

    So yeah, I’ll absolutely stand by my calling it grotesque to imply that it would be an EXPECTATION of any woman to put herself through that.
    because you do have an idea of what most mothers would do, obviously.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    As a mother, if I was in that situation, I’m taking death by my dragon…
    Knowing full well death by immolation, is prob one of the most painfull, since, even after your nerves burn you still suffocate in agony, all right
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-10-02 at 08:47 AM.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Most mothers would do that, painfully carve themselves for the sake of the life of their children, even with slim chances, especially if they knew they would not live anyway. I would say other adjectives instead of "grotesque" for it.

    And she seems like the mother that would do that, in fact, i though they did it and she went to die with the dragons
    The fact that you think she could have undergone a caesarean section, had her stomach muscles and uterus cut open and sewn back up, without blood transfusions for what would assuredly have been massive blood loss, and with only enough 'milk of the poppy' that could she could still walk and talk afterwards, and then waddle herself down to the beach betrays such a gross ignorance of basic human and particularly female anatomy that we can safely evaluate and dismiss your opinions about "most women."

    I agree with the person who called your expectations of women to subject themselves to that grotesque, but beyond that, while you're busy casting women as villains and bad mothers if they don't elect vivisection under mild sedation, let's keep in mind this isn't what happens in the books--the baby dies a day or so later, and then she dies a few days later in her maternity bed. The writers talked about how they had already had one bloody caesarean scene, so for dramatic effect, they teed up the end by having her talk about how she wanted a dragon rider's death, and then they gave her one, without much thought for her character. So take it up with them and leave "most women" out of it, thanks.
    Last edited by Levelfive; 2022-10-02 at 12:20 PM.
    Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect. There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time. --Frank Wilhoit

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Knowing full well death by immolation, is prob one of the most painfull, since, even after your nerves burn you still suffocate in agony, all right
    Dragon fire looks extremely hot and pretty instant… and since there’s lore on larger dragons having hotter fire, I’m sure Vahgar’s flame instantly killed her.

    I’m not sure why you think a c-section by blade would be better than that.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  18. #458
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Levelfive View Post
    The fact that you think she could have undergone a caesarean section, had her stomach muscles and uterus cut open and sewn back up, without blood transfusions for what would assuredly have been massive blood loss, and with only enough 'milk of the poppy' that could she could still walk and talk afterwards, and then waddle herself down to the beach betrays such a gross ignorance of basic human and particularly female anatomy that we can safely evaluate and dismiss your opinions about "most women."
    hum,, what? who said a thing about sewn back? you are reaching so hard you are making a strawman out of yourself and be sure i have more understanding of human anatomy than yourself
    I agree with the person who called your expectations of women to subject themselves to that grotesque,
    But that is not my expectations, you would know that if you actually read things, it was other people who said it, i just said it "grotesque" is too much.
    but beyond that, while you're busy casting women as villains and bad mothers
    Except didn't, a weak and lame strawman

    So take it up with them and leave "most women" out of it, thanks.
    Nope, i think i will stay saying what i want and if you don't like you can bite a pillow

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    Dragon fire looks extremely hot and pretty instant… and since there’s lore on larger dragons having hotter fire, I’m sure Vahgar’s flame instantly killed her.
    Well, obviously an instant death is better than any death, but that is assuming the dragon fire would do that, an instant death, and i doubt it would be enough to incinerate it in an instant. Bu again, im not well versed in song of ice and fire chronicles

    I’m not sure why you think a c-section by blade would be better than that.
    Like i said, any instant death is better than painful death, but in scale of pain, immolation is among the worst and painfully ones and not by the burning alone.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Well, obviously an instant death is better than any death, but that is assuming the dragon fire would do that, an instant death, and i doubt it would be enough to incinerate it in an instant. Bu again, im not well versed in song of ice and fire chronicles



    Like i said, any instant death is better than painful death, but in scale of pain, immolation is among the worst and painfully ones and not by the burning alone.
    When Drogon killed Randyll and Dickon Tarly it was pretty instant, like maybe a second or two before they were complete ash. And when Dany burns the city we see people instantly turn to ash because of how hot his flame is. He also melts the Iron Throne pretty quickly…

    So, yeah, I stand by my decision… I’m going out by dragon flame.
    Fairy tales are more than true–not because they tell us dragons exist, but because they tell us dragons can be beaten. -G. K. Chesterton & Neil Gaiman

  20. #460
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winter Blossom View Post
    When Drogon killed Randyll and Dickon Tarly it was pretty instant, like maybe a second or two before they were complete ash. And when Dany burns the city we see people instantly turn to ash because of how hot his flame is. He also melts the Iron Throne pretty quickly…

    So, yeah, I stand by my decision… I’m going out by dragon flame.
    Well, it would be the most pain someone could felt in an instant ever

    But then again, who can say they died by dragon, painfully but prob one of the most dope ways to die.

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