[TV] House of the Dragon

[Twdft]

If you have them encircled and trapped in caves, it doesn't matter that they're still alive. If all exits to the caves are guarded, or at least the islands themselves, you can simply starve them out. And, assuming they have food in the caves for 60 years, it's STILL a victory because you know what raiders can't do when trapped in caves?

Look at the map below, they fortified in Bloodstone caves and had supplies and reinforcements coming in from Essos, the continent in the east, by three wealthy free cities.

[molliewoof]

I mean, in a real war I'd have imagined Daemon had already won. The show portrays it as a stale-mate, even though they've managed to encircle the crab feeder and his men and forced them to retreat into caves. But... I mean, think about it. That's not a stale-mate, that's a win.

If you have them encircled and trapped in caves, it doesn't matter that they're still alive. If all exits to the caves are guarded, or at least the islands themselves, you can simply starve them out. And, assuming they have food in the caves for 60 years, it's STILL a victory because you know what raiders can't do when trapped in caves?

Raid.

Just the fact that they're pushed into the caves, knowing that they'll be burnt to a crisp by dragons if they ever fight on an open field means that the Crab Feeder problem was in practice already solved. They put the crab feeder in a position where he's unable to pillage ships and do his piracy stuff. So, what on earth could he possibly do to disrupt the shipping lanes with an army with a few dragons waiting outside the caves? Absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile, Daemon has endless ability to resupply and reinforce his troops while the crab feeders, being sieged, have a very finite amount of both men and supplies. Hell, Daemon could just station one small detachment + one dragon near the caves and they'd be fine.

Daemon had already won. I've no idea why they implied this was a stale-mate.

Agreed. I'm not sure who said this but your post made the quote ' yes sir, weve got them surrounded just from the inside' immediately jump into my head, I laughed on the bus

[arlion]

I mean, in a real war I'd have imagined Daemon had already won. The show portrays it as a stale-mate, even though they've managed to encircle the crab feeder and his men and forced them to retreat into caves. But... I mean, think about it. That's not a stale-mate, that's a win.

If you have them encircled and trapped in caves, it doesn't matter that they're still alive. If all exits to the caves are guarded, or at least the islands themselves, you can simply starve them out. And, assuming they have food in the caves for 60 years, it's STILL a victory because you know what raiders can't do when trapped in caves?

Raid.

Just the fact that they're pushed into the caves, knowing that they'll be burnt to a crisp by dragons if they ever fight on an open field means that the Crab Feeder problem was in practice already solved. They put the crab feeder in a position where he's unable to pillage ships and do his piracy stuff. So, what on earth could he possibly do to disrupt the shipping lanes with an army with a few dragons waiting outside the caves? Absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile, Daemon has endless ability to resupply and reinforce his troops while the crab feeders, being sieged, have a very finite amount of both men and supplies. Hell, Daemon could just station one small detachment + one dragon near the caves and they'd be fine.

Daemon had already won. I've no idea why they implied this was a stale-mate.

I dont think they are that encircled. The Velaryon army is shown about to collapse from lack of supplies and money, i guess they just cant encircle all the caves. And the pirates do have almost infinite resources, coming from the free cities. They are just waiting them up, the Velaryons cant fund the war, they explicitly say they can only resist two more weeks.

[Fortress of Arrogance]

I don't dislike Reinira, however I do feel they are attempting to remake Dany but skipping all the parts that built her into the character the audience loved enough to react as it did to what they did to her in S8.

Dany didn't start off a powerful, dragon-riding ruler. She was an outcast sister being used as currency by her brother. She had nothing other than her bloodline and her beauty and even that only made her valuable as something to trade with. She grew and evolved into someone we CARED about, but wasn't given it off the bat.

Reinira I feel like the writers are trying to go "see! she's just like Dany! adore her like you did that other character!". They even have attempted to make her look similar, to the point where the comparison is obvious. Reinira is not BAD, she just hasn't had to suffer and evolve yet so the connection they writers are expecting just isn't there yet.

We shall see, its not as good as GoT yet, but it may get there.

Cannot agree more.
We watched Dany grow up and evolve(until s8 that is), which made is grow attached to her.
I am not hating on Reinira(yet), but it certainly feels to me the same way: they're pushing the agenda that Reinira is just like Dany v2.0

[PACOX]

Ooo Ooo poo this is the GoT I like. Bunch of grimy nobles being grimy.

The level of lies and conspiracy is 10 layers...FROM ONE EPISODE. Good shit.

[Wermys]

Cannot agree more.
We watched Dany grow up and evolve(until s8 that is), which made is grow attached to her.
I am not hating on Reinira(yet), but it certainly feels to me the same way: they're pushing the agenda that Reinira is just like Dany v2.0

Just wait, the hate will flow in time. All I will say is this entire ERA no matter which side you were on is pretty shitty for everyone involved. Except for Roddy. He will be the badass of badasses. But he comes later.

[Fencers]

Cannot agree more.
We watched Dany grow up and evolve(until s8 that is), which made is grow attached to her.
I am not hating on Reinira(yet), but it certainly feels to me the same way: they're pushing the agenda that Reinira is just like Dany v2.0

That's the actual story though. The Targaryens are ultimately deeply flawed rulers. This whole era, the players, and how it all ends are already known. This is the past that the characters of GOT romanticized and patterned their claims, deeds, and ambitions on in large part. This is the Dance of Dragons era essentially.

Also, most of the Targaryens look similar. That is their trait and contrast to the rest of Westeros. Even Daeron and Baelor looked weird/Targaryen and they were pretty mixed blood by then.

Edit: Don't look up the Dance of Dragons civil war if you don't want show spoilers, by the way.

[Biomega]

Cannot agree more.
We watched Dany grow up and evolve(until s8 that is), which made is grow attached to her.
I am not hating on Reinira(yet), but it certainly feels to me the same way: they're pushing the agenda that Reinira is just like Dany v2.0

I mean, we don't know how Book Dany will turn out, but GoT Dany didn't exactly have a surprising arc.

That's what the Targaryens are: charismatic and entitled rules who often also turn out to be inbred psychopaths. That's, like, their whole shtick. Some are more crazy than others, but most do in fact turn out to be nutsy wacko monster maniacs sooner or later. That's what happens when you keep marrying your own sisters, I guess.

There's exceptions of course, but when a Targaryen goes over the edge it's not like anyone goes "gee however did that happen nobody could have expected that!".

[Fencers]

That's what the Targaryens are:

Worth noting they all have a streak of madness and obsession about them; it is also a common trait besides their appearance. Which persists despite intermarrying for hundreds of years.

Sometimes that Targaryen madness is relatively benign (Viserys I) and some less so (Maegor I). Even the accounts of Baleor's madness alternate based on who and where the story is being told.

Targaryens are not people to aspire toward or have too much admiration of- they are kinda evil fundamentally.

[Twdft]

Watched ep4 before work just so I don't get spoiled, and can enjoy the memes. Fantastic episode.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Episode 4

I don't know. Another episode with no action. Just people standing around talking, and it's starting to become hard to care now that almost every character is debaucherous or a liar. There's no one to root for.

[Ihavewaffles]

Good riddance otto

[DarkAmbient]

That was a good episode, proper Game of Thrones stuff. There's no obvious hero to root for and I like that. In fact it's probably the way it should be in mature fantasy like this. Also I didn't like Matt Smith in this at first but he's grown on me. Really enjoying the show.

[VinceVega]

Episode 4

I don't know. Another episode with no action. Just people standing around talking, and it's starting to become hard to care now that almost every character is debaucherous or a liar. There's no one to root for.

It's a GoT show. Most episodes have been light on action. Except maybe the last season and the last few episodes of each season.

South park even made fun of GoT for their excessive talking and walking... well and dicks...

I am happy they did not go the marvel way and just threw nonstopp action after action scene at us without actuall character development.

[Varodoc]

Episode 4

I don't know. Another episode with no action. Just people standing around talking, and it's starting to become hard to care now that almost every character is debaucherous or a liar. There's no one to root for.

I mean, the best GOT episodes were those of people standing around and talking about politics. Stuff like Robert and Cersei discussing a Dothraki invasion, Cersei and Eddard confronting each other in the gardens, Tyrion planning for the Blackwater, Littlefinger vs. Varys, Tywin doing anything either in Harrenhal or King's Landing, and so on.

The spectacle, like Hardhome or the Bells, is visually stunning but is also when the show started turning to shit.

[Kumorii]

I mean, we don't know how Book Dany will turn out, but GoT Dany didn't exactly have a surprising arc.

That's what the Targaryens are: charismatic and entitled rules who often also turn out to be inbred psychopaths. That's, like, their whole shtick. Some are more crazy than others, but most do in fact turn out to be nutsy wacko monster maniacs sooner or later. That's what happens when you keep marrying your own sisters, I guess.

There's exceptions of course, but when a Targaryen goes over the edge it's not like anyone goes "gee however did that happen nobody could have expected that!".

When Daenarys snapped I actually heard this a lot.
People were surprised how a person like her could suddenly turn like that..."She was such a freedom fighter". I rarely heard people talk about seeing this coming.

I agree with you however. What I think the GoT did well was in fact that after the death of Drogo and her rise as a queen of dragons is that she started to develop tyrannical methods from season 2 onwards in a slowly manner. I think it flew under peoples radar for so long because it was against the "wrong" people who kind of deserved it, but the methods were still tyrannical and didn't come from a good place even if disguised as such. Which is what I enjoyed with her arc... road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Shame the "snap" in Season 8 were so mishandled it threw away all nuance.




EP04:
Stakes are rising. After developing peoples characters things are really picking up the pace. Felt some scenes were kind of lingered on a bit too much, but overall I really enjoyed this episode. The way this show treats music is very good.

side note:
What's up with not being able to make CGI boats nowadays?

[molliewoof]

nice episode, really enjoyed it

[CostinR]

Good riddance otto

Otto might have done all he did for the sake of his influence, power and the influence and power of his house.

However he also so happens to be right about well....everything.

Fact of the matter is that Viserys did need to remarry and have more heirs while it is true that Corlys' daughter would have been the best match he also knew Viserys wasn't to keen to replace his beloved wife for a teenager. Besides Corlys is too ambitious.

He also saw the writing on the wall. To be quite blunt about Daemon and Rhaenyra would have been ATROCIOUS rulers, both of them. Daemon for obvious reasons: He's right prick, and Rhaenyra well she isn't exactly suited for it. Forget that she's a woman in a society that doesn't accept female monarchs, she is not at all suited for the throne. Imagine a ruler like her leading your country: Vindictive, petty, chaotic. Now sure she is shaped by her circumstance, but everyone is. Even if Otto had done nothing and supported Viserys fully in his choices the realm would have burned all the same.

Honestly I think the show portrays him as the only one close to being a hero here.

Not to say Aegon II was going to be much better.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

So, what on earth could he possibly do to disrupt the shipping lanes with an army with a few dragons waiting outside the caves? Absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile, Daemon has endless ability to resupply and reinforce his troops while the crab feeders, being sieged, have a very finite amount of both men and supplies. Hell, Daemon could just station one small detachment + one dragon near the caves and they'd be fine.

Daemon had already won. I've no idea why they implied this was a stale-mate.

This isn't what happened in the show, for whatever reason.
In the show, they depict ships still being bombarded from afar.
The caves are clearly a tunnel work, not just a standard cave.
And most importantly, multiple years go by so its evident that they ARE able to get resupplied.

This was always the problem with adapting that source material, because its not written like a true narrative. Its written like a history text, so the smaller details aren't fleshed out enough for TV.

But if you just have a look at what is actually happening on screen, you can surmise enough to understand.

Daemon is not interested in starving them out. That is not a win for him. He is losing the real battle, that being that he is some legendary warrior who can do whatever he likes.

His goal was never to help solve the problem there. It was to make a name for himself.

[Fencers]

I think it flew under peoples radar for so long because it was against the "wrong" people who kind of deserved it, but the methods were still tyrannical and didn't come from a good place even if disguised as such. Which is what I enjoyed with her arc... road to hell is paved with good intentions and all that. Shame the "snap" in Season 8 were so mishandled it threw away all nuance.

I think GOT kinda dropped the ball on this aspect compared to the source material. It was partly the case the actress who played Darnarys was wildly popular and charismatic. Though also the show only had so much bandwidth for bloodshed and cruelty that Daenarys actually causes in Essos. The show flew through Daenary's events in A Clash of Kings and A Storm of Swords. This is where her cunning and penchant for reciprocating those that wrong her with violence are cemented going forward.

So it left viewers with the notion that Daenarys just got a bunch of Unsullied, killed some bad slave owners then moved on. But she really kinda was bad at ruling the places she conquered by might as it was largely chaos and cruelty soon after she took control in Mareen, Astapor and so on.

Daenarys kinda sucks at being a "queen".

I see people claim Rhaenyra is a Daenarys stand-in, but it is the other way around. Daenarys takes after Rhaenyra's legacy. I believe it is even mentioned in one of the books to Daenarys that Rhaenyra was the "Bitch Queen" and "Dragon Queen" depending on who you ask that brought a lot of chaos to Westeros. Daenarys takes right after Rhaenyra.

If folks are thinking Rhaenyra is a hero, they are gonna be disappointed by what is to come.