Blizzard finally understood the value of casual players having more access to gear.

[Echo of Soul]

Why can't you do that in m+ now?

If you can't tell the difference between a matchmade heroic dungeon and a premade m+ dungeon on your own there's really no way for anyone to explain it to you in a way that you can understand.

[Celement]

Why can't you do that in m+ now?

Self imposed limitations and the belief that if they never try they never fail.

[froschhure]

Is that a bot thread that praises "blizzards efforts for casual players" what a joke! This game still rotates arround mythic players boosting the lower tiers. You are happy about items Yay? SL is a desaster and s4 will not change it

[Coldkil]

I agree that "casuals" should have easier access to better(not the best) gear.

That doesn't hurt anyone. As long as it is not as rng as fucking titanforging/warforging.

I think they can be given basically 15s gear from world content, just stagger it at a slow pace. Who cares if an alt or someone gets his 304 ilvl items 3 or 4 months into the patch.

[Nymrohd]

I think they can be given basically 15s gear from world content, just stagger it at a slow pace. Who cares if an alt or someone gets his 304 ilvl items 3 or 4 months into the patch.

Just imagine a fairly long reward track that resets every season, you can advance it with a weekly limit like you could with Valor and any number of activities can be used to advance it from Mythic raiding to pet battles (so like Valor in MoP). First 8 weeks the reward track awards Normal Raid ilvl loot. From 9th week till the release of the next major patch/ilvl bump, it rewards Heroic Raid Ilvl loot. All loot, weapons and trinkets included. You'd have full heroic gear 24 weeks after M+ becomes available for that season.
Alternatively for something like Dragonflight it could just reward crafting materials to craft loot at that ilvl.

[Ashana Darkmoon]

If you can't tell the difference between a matchmade heroic dungeon and a premade m+ dungeon on your own there's really no way for anyone to explain it to you in a way that you can understand.

The poster wasn't talking about matchmade dungeons tho, he was talking about playing dungeons with friends.

I really miss just doing a heroic dungeon with friends and talking on voice chat while everybody was getting something out of it even if no upgrades dropped.

Other than the word "heroic" this is describing something you can do now!

[Nymrohd]

The poster wasn't talking about matchmade dungeons tho, he was talking about playing dungeons with friends.

I really miss just doing a heroic dungeon with friends and talking on voice chat while everybody was getting something out of it even if no upgrades dropped.

Other than the word "heroic" this is describing something you can do now!

I'd say the timer restricts a bit how much you can goof around in the dungeon. You can ofc do untimed runs, especially with friends.

[Mysterymask]

I'd say the timer restricts a bit how much you can goof around in the dungeon. You can ofc do untimed runs, especially with friends.

Except 5 friends jump over the problems the timer makes...there won't be a dude who's gonna bail because shit went away, they won't rage when you don't make the timer, you aren't spending 2 hours looking for someone with a good RIO, ilvl and proper class....you aren't arguing how your gonna do shit etc etc

[Nymrohd]

Except 5 friends jump over the problems the timer makes...there won't be a dude who's gonna bail because shit went away, they won't rage when you don't make the timer, you aren't spending 2 hours looking for someone with a good RIO, ilvl and proper class....you aren't arguing how your gonna do shit etc etc

? Which is what I said?

You can ofc do untimed runs, especially with friends.

[MoanaLisa]

Game is a raiding simulator gear chase, if you cant comprehend what that means your gaming experience is not good enough or you arent old enough to understand the difference for when the MMORPG scene started 20 years ago.

Quote is essentially saying that WoW isn't a theme park MMO. That's clearly untrue. Even if you discount everything about non-instanced PVE, there's still PVP.

However, it's a non-starter to deny the rest of the game that is non-instanced doesn't exist. I don't even know what to call that sort of logic other than a full denial of the reality of the bulk of the game content.

[Nymrohd]

Quote is essentially saying that WoW isn't a theme park MMO. That's clearly untrue. Even if you discount everything about non-instanced PVE, there's still PVP.

However, it's a non-starter to deny the rest of the game that is non-instanced doesn't exist. I don't even know what to call that sort of logic other than a full denial of the reality of the bulk of the game content.

I mean the development time spend to create the world and all the questing dwarfs the development time to create raids. It's far more time consuming to create a zone with multiple storylines and sidequests than to make one raid. I know raid loggers are probably THE most entitled community in the game but this takes the cake in solipsism.

[Celement]

Quote is essentially saying that WoW isn't a theme park MMO. That's clearly untrue. Even if you discount everything about non-instanced PVE, there's still PVP.

However, it's a non-starter to deny the rest of the game that is non-instanced doesn't exist. I don't even know what to call that sort of logic other than a full denial of the reality of the bulk of the game content.

It exists but it is kind of like saying the cover of a book is integral to the story held within.

The world in wow hasn't been relevant since arguably classic maybe tbc if you pushed it. I don't know how you would make it matter either. If they started adding challenging content and they have tried a few times the community makes 4man groups to get around the tagging rules and aoes everything down.

Making a somewhat challenging world boss in mop just resulted in the wow community throwing at times a dozen or more raid groups at it till the server couldn't load in its abilities....

WoW for better or worse is an instance based game. Even if the devs tried to change it the community wouldn't accept it at this point.

[Mysterymask]

? Which is what I said?

And what you missed from my statement is timed runs aren't really an issue either... When you got 4 people you know then most of the issues with the timer just go away

- - - Updated - - -

It exists but it is kind of like saying the cover of a book is integral to the story held within.

The world in wow hasn't been relevant since arguably classic maybe tbc if you pushed it. I don't know how you would make it matter either. If they started adding challenging content and they have tried a few times the community makes 4man groups to get around the tagging rules and aoes everything down.

Making a somewhat challenging world boss in mop just resulted in the wow community throwing at times a dozen or more raid groups at it till the server couldn't load in its abilities....

WoW for better or worse is an instance based game. Even if the devs tried to change it the community wouldn't accept it at this point.

How is it less now than before? What did vanilla and BC have they retail doesn't?

World bosses that once killed are gone for a week?
World pvp?
The wonder of exploring a world you already outleveled?
Netherwing dailies?
Actually walking to a dungeon?
Those little pvp war zones?

[Celement]

And what you missed from my statement is timed runs aren't really an issue either... When you got 4 people you know then most of the issues with the timer just go away

- - - Updated - - -



How is it less now than before? What did vanilla and BC have they retail doesn't?

World bosses that once killed are gone for a week?
World pvp?
The wonder of exploring a world you already outleveled?
Netherwing dailies?
Actually walking to a dungeon?
Those little pvp war zones?

A more naive and inexperienced playerbase mostly. The world was never really relevant past leveling but it's a more... exploitative and the novelty of a mmo was fresh.

Now the world exists to act as a list of chores for people who enjoy harder aspects of the endgame.

[Mysterymask]

A more naive and inexperienced playerbase mostly. The world was never really relevant past leveling but it's a more... exploitative and the novelty of a mmo was fresh.

Now the world exists to act as a list of chores for people who enjoy harder aspects of the endgame.

IE the famous MMO Champion complaint of "why can't blizzard take me back to 2004

[HansOlo]

It exists but it is kind of like saying the cover of a book is integral to the story held within.

The world in wow hasn't been relevant since arguably classic maybe tbc if you pushed it. I don't know how you would make it matter either. If they started adding challenging content and they have tried a few times the community makes 4man groups to get around the tagging rules and aoes everything down.

Making a somewhat challenging world boss in mop just resulted in the wow community throwing at times a dozen or more raid groups at it till the server couldn't load in its abilities....

WoW for better or worse is an instance based game. Even if the devs tried to change it the community wouldn't accept it at this point.

It is blowing my mind when I read comment like this. You practically said that the game was exclusive during Classic.

I think when people comments like this, they just ignore one big factor - life happended. That is almost 20 years ago. That is 1/4 of a lifetime - you know how much the world evolved during 20 years?

Obviously - there is a market, and Blizzard had to change their game to satisfy the broader audiance.
If they didn't do that(and keep doing it) - then WoW classic would be equivalent to Tetris today and nobody would had paid Blizzard and the game would essentially be dead long time ago.

It is basic things people fail to grasp. It's so disappointing, when people don't reflect at all.

[Lurker1]

I'd like to give credit to developers for finally getting in sync with casual player base. Couple things (among other) that stands out.

• Tier set forge
• Uncapped valor S4

These and other few good changes indicates that Blizzard finally understands that removing previously existing briers is a good thing. What can casual player do with more gear?

• Stay subscribed.
• Go do solo older content.
• Join mythic plus groups.
• Engage in activities that has power limits (brawlers guild, etc)
• Have more motivation in general to engage in current content including raiding.

And because power rocks, player can finally do whatever they want with it. It feels good to be powerful rather than memeing around like a scrub.

disagree it took season 4 content for me to even think there trying and it's still not the best but atleast it's something now vs nothing.

[neik]

The game is always casual friendly during its last patch, and its been like that for just about every version of WoW. But it's only for final patches, don't expect any alt friendly changes to make it to the next expansion.

It had its own versions to certain degree only. Acknowledging the fact that they are trying in Shadowlands, it's only fair to give them credit as a positive reinforcement that they might keep this newly improved momentum going.

[Tarba]

I'd like to give credit to developers for finally getting in sync with casual player base. Couple things (among other) that stands out.

• Tier set forge
• Uncapped valor S4

These and other few good changes indicates that Blizzard finally understands that removing previously existing briers is a good thing. What can casual player do with more gear?

• Stay subscribed.
• Go do solo older content.
• Join mythic plus groups.
• Engage in activities that has power limits (brawlers guild, etc)
• Have more motivation in general to engage in current content including raiding.

And because power rocks, player can finally do whatever they want with it. It feels good to be powerful rather than memeing around like a scrub.

... Is that the first patch you play ?
It seems weird that you didn't notice the decade long pattern :
1. Start the expansion and add some boring stuff, grindy as fuck.
2. Fix it a bit in a patch later with an other less grindy stuff
3. Add an other different boring grindy stuff.
4. Make it less boring a bit later.
5. Add a grindy stuff.
6. Make it broken when people don't care much about the game to wait for the next expansion
7. Repeat all steps with the new expansion.
8. Profit.

Dragonthing will be the same as shadowbland.

[HansOlo]

... Is that the first patch you play ?
It seems weird that you didn't notice the decade long pattern :
1. Start the expansion and add some boring stuff, grindy as fuck.
2. Fix it a bit in a patch later with an other less grindy stuff
3. Add an other different boring grindy stuff.
4. Make it less boring a bit later.
5. Add a grindy stuff.
6. Make it broken when people don't care much about the game to wait for the next expansion
7. Repeat all steps with the new expansion.
8. Profit.

Dragonthing will be the same as shadowbland.

Have you heard the proverb - you sound like if satan would read up from the bible?

Maybe stop having an opinion and move on? You know spend that energy on mobile games or whatever?

I really can't see what you want from the game.