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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me and I do not know how that equates to entitlement. I'm curious because I'd like to have a conversation with someone like that.

    I understand people have quit. You didn't say at the time about just quitting, you said at 30, which is the type of person I want to talk to... understand what made them feel that was adequate. Why are you being so confrontational?
    I'm being confrontational because you are condescending and entitled. I made a rather mundane claim and you are demanding I now spend my free time digging through posts to find "evidence" for it. It's stupid, just like it would be stupid if I said "My name is Steve Johnson" and you demand I go dig out my birth certificate before you will believe it. It's an unreasonable, absurd request given how mundane the claim is, and the very request itself is insulting.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    I think someone mentioned that the WoW store mounts are completely unique and have no close counterparts ingame, and half the mounts ingame are recolours.

    That is literally the same and probably worse for FFXIV. The Trial mounts are literally recolours of the same mount. And there are, what, atleast 5 or 6 recolours with at least 4 series of them, right?
    You literally mentioned the one situation where XIV has recolors...

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I'm being confrontational because you are condescending and entitled. I made a rather mundane claim and you are demanding I now spend my free time digging through posts to find "evidence" for it. It's stupid, just like it would be stupid if I said "My name is Steve Johnson" and you demand I go dig out my birth certificate before you will believe it. It's an unreasonable, absurd request given how mundane the claim is, and the very request itself is insulting.
    Why do you feel I was being condescending? I don't see anything in my posts that can even be misconstrued as that word.

    You replied to only me in the entire thread and I was only asking you to point me in the direction. I didn't demand anything from you, only requested.

    I didn't ask for you to go far out of your way to dig up something that I knew would take you a long time. You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly, so I asked so I could talk to the person.

    I don't understand how you can be insulted by a request for something you brought up. I was asking for your help. I figured with the amount of time you've spent thus far replying to me and not showing me what you're referring to, you could have found exactly what I asked.

    I don't see any legit reason thus far to being so confrontational.
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Why do you feel I was being condescending? I don't see anything in my posts that can even be misconstrued as that word.

    You replied to only me in the entire thread and I was only asking you to point me in the direction. I didn't demand anything from you, only requested.

    I didn't ask for you to go far out of your way to dig up something that I knew would take you a long time. You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly, so I asked so I could talk to the person.

    I don't understand how you can be insulted by a request for something you brought up. I was asking for your help. I figured with the amount of time you've spent thus far replying to me and not showing me what you're referring to, you could have found exactly what I asked.

    I don't see any legit reason thus far to being so confrontational.
    Because you are attempting to hide your smug, condescending bullshit behind "I'm just being nice" geniality, which is actually an even shittier way to behave.

    How exactly would you propose I go find the particular posts, which I am recalling from months ago?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Because you are attempting to hide your smug, condescending bullshit behind "I'm just being nice" geniality, which is actually an even shittier way to behave.

    How exactly would you propose I go find the particular posts, which I am recalling from months ago?
    I guess I'm not following you. There is nothing smug or condescending in any of my posts. I'm struggling to understand how you're construing anything I'm saying as-such. I'm only here to have a friendly conversation. I'm not sure what about that is "shitty". If wanting to do that is not allowed, I was not aware and I apologize.

    I do not know what I could propose. I assumed when you said it was self-evident that it happens all the time or somewhere in this thread. I skimmed this thread and didn't see anything. I don't know if you're seeing something somewhere that I'm not. I enjoy getting feedback from people who only tried the game for a day or two to find out how they came to the conclusion they did. There is usually something obvious that veterans overlook that deters people.
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  6. #286
    "it happens everywhere!"

    "Oh, can you show me?"

    "...you're such a jerk!!"

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I guess I'm not following you. There is nothing smug or condescending in any of my posts. I'm struggling to understand how you're construing anything I'm saying as-such. I'm only here to have a friendly conversation. I'm not sure what about that is "shitty". If wanting to do that is not allowed, I was not aware and I apologize.

    I do not know what I could propose. I assumed when you said it was self-evident that it happens all the time or somewhere in this thread. I skimmed this thread and didn't see anything. I don't know if you're seeing something somewhere that I'm not. I enjoy getting feedback from people who only tried the game for a day or two to find out how they came to the conclusion they did. There is usually something obvious that veterans overlook that deters people.
    It is incredibly shitty behavior to make absurd evidentiary requests for mundane claims that obviously will take hours to fulfill and then declare that someone's inability to do that is an indication that they are incorrect.

    You don't know what you could propose because the request is asinine on its face.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    "it happens everywhere!"

    "Oh, can you show me?"

    "...you're such a jerk!!"
    This is what I said:

    "There are people in this forum who I have seen post dozens and dozens and dozens of times about all the problems with FF14 and then they turned out to have quit at level 30."

    Notably I didn't say "It happens everywhere!" or even "It happens all the time!". I said it *has happened*.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    It is incredibly shitty behavior to make absurd evidentiary requests for mundane claims that obviously will take hours to fulfill and then declare that someone's inability to do that is an indication that they are incorrect.

    You don't know what you could propose because the request is asinine on its face..
    I’m really trying to understand you. You keep saying things like “smug, condescending, absurd” but what about it is so? I’m just trying to see what you’re seeing. I only asked, I didn’t demand. You could say “no thanks”. I don’t get why that’s offending you so badly.

    I never said you were incorrect about anything. I was asking for your help.
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I’m really trying to understand you. You keep saying things like “smug, condescending, absurd” but what about it is so? I’m just trying to see what you’re seeing. I only asked, I didn’t demand. You could say “no thanks”. I don’t get why that’s offending you so badly.

    I never said you were incorrect about anything. I was asking for your help.
    I did say no thanks, and then you kept pushing the issue.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #290
    As someone who really loves FFXIV and has been since 1.0 - I really wish we had an alternate game-mode or something like Bozja / Eureka where it's more customizable. Like having custom made classes or deeper designs and alternate progression, etc. A mode completely separated from the rest of the game (Like PotD, HoH, etc.) so that you can balance it all by itself away from the main game or PVP.

    I say this, because the biggest thing I like and dislike about 14 right now is how streamlined and straight forward with no wiggle room the classes are. They are rigid, solid, work well and don't really fall behind any other (Besides in like, damage and slight variances). Of course some classes will be better than others, but - still. It's something I do miss about old FFXIV, but I completely understand them gutting these types of systems for the MSQ and main game. It's just too difficult to have someone play through a 200 hour story AND master a complex class while having access to all the plethora of systems which can completely change the way you play.

    Oh and I really wish we had WoW's transmog system already.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I did say no thanks, and then you kept pushing the issue.
    Can you show me where you said that? I only recall you questioning why I would ask you in a confrontational manner.
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  12. #292
    All I can say is that while I really don't care for stuff like talent trees and class customization, I definitely wouldn't be opposed to at least some jobs getting an option to be a different role. I'd love to play a Ranged DPS Sage or DPS Dark Knight.

  13. #293
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    Yeah, but to be fair how many other MMOs require you to queue for a (admittedly LFR difficulty) raid to progress the main storyline?
    GW2 (from my understanding) has solo instances for Personal Story, and WoW has no forced dungeons or raids to progress the main quest line - dungeons are just optional "capstones" to zones quests; and always have been since Vanilla.

    Thats my pool to draw from. 2/3 MMOs not locking the rest of the game behind group content (you have to do CT to get into Heavensward content).
    Feel free to point out other MMOs that I haven't tread waters in that do this.
    To be fair, at one point in time, WoW required you to actually unlock the dungeon itself through the questing before you would get it for the Dungeon Finder. You could still have friends run you through, sure, but back then it was clear that the intent was for you to go through the zone and actually get the dungeon unlocked normally instead of just hitting level 61 and having the Necrovalley unlocked despite having never been there or even seen the story elements that build up to it. (Yes, I know that's not a real dungeon, just giving an example of whats normal now)

    While I do agree that XIV could be a bit better about allowing you to still have MSQ while you're also doing the Crystal Tower by pointing you over to it earlier on, I honestly do not think that having something required to continue the story is a bad thing in any game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moralgy View Post
    ?

    Every single savage and ultimate is filled to the brim with these.
    Reading comprehension, my friend... It really helps. This is legitimately what I said is the only instance where FFXIV has the 'One dies, everyone dies' set up, and it's both not pushed on the players nor is it used as a measuring stick of what you're capable of unless you're already DOING savage/extreme/ultimate. Compared to WoW, where they've got UI elements, special achievements, and even text on the gear that tells everyone just how far along you've gotten in Mythic+.

    If you want me to have a better way of saying it, how about this? With the way WoW is designed and set up right now, the expectation is there for you to push yourself into harder content, to be the pushing mythic keys and trying harder and harder to give your best. Even if you don't have to do it, it feels like you should because the game itself goes 'look, here's this cool thing we made for you to keep track of how high you've gotten in the difficulty slider!'. It makes for a more competitive atmosphere and, in turn, can breed a lot of problems when others aren't trying as hard and impact your own progress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    I always try (when applicable) to persuade people to not give up on FFXIV until at minimum, level 50. By then, they've actually obtained a job stone and experienced enough content to decide if they like how the game plays. Like you, most people I notice who give up do so before they even obtain a job stone and experience very little content. That doesn't give the game a fair chance. I've went back and forth with people who try and rationalize that they've made a "educated" or "good enough" assessment pre-level 30 and any FFXIV veteran will tell you that you simply cannot.

    Participating in the story isn't so much the problem but as stated, at this point, anyone diving in has to clear base game and 4 expansions worth of story missions. That's quite a bit and not everyone has the patience to sit and watch a bunch of cutscenes or read a bunch of text. People want to dive into the action. They want to kill stuff.
    Bolded the last part in particular since that's something that is very subjective. While I won't deny that there are people who want to do exactly what you said, that's not the focus for everyone and, in particular, not one that I've always been into myself.

    Let me try explaining it this way, Necro, and see if we can't get our point across better: What you're suggesting for the story elements and the like right now for XIV is basically like telling us that there's no point in watching the rest of a movie that just came out, that we should legit just fast forward through it all to get to the action scenes. Will there be some people who are able to do that just fine and enjoy themselves? Sure! Hell, there's a reason why some people post youtube clips of those very parts online.

    But when it comes down to it, do you know what I'm telling players whom I'm wanting to expose to XIV about? It's story. What am I warning them can run overlong at times, especially when it comes to ARR? The story. What am I'm telling to treat the game like, first and foremost when it comes to what they should really expect out of it? Once again, it's the story.

    While being an MMO is part of XIV's DNA, it's a game about it's story. And like any other game with super long stories, like Persona, Metal Gear Solid, or Dragon Age to just name a few, I wouldn't want you to fast forward through the slow parts just so you can get to the battles. As i said before, even in this very thread, the idea here is to treat XIV like a long book series or an anime like One Piece. You eat it in small bites to enjoy the entire meal, not shovel it all down your throat to just say 'I'm done!'

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    Can you show me where you said that? I only recall you questioning why I would ask you in a confrontational manner.
    "I was just asking for you to show 1-2 since you said "dozens and dozens and dozens" which would lead any reasonable person to believe it could be found rather quickly."

    "Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me..."

    "You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly..."

    We both know what you are doing. Drop the act.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    "I was just asking for you to show 1-2 since you said "dozens and dozens and dozens" which would lead any reasonable person to believe it could be found rather quickly."

    "Would it really take hours? If it's that self-evident, it should take you no time at all to show me..."

    "You made if very clear that it's self-evident, which indicates that someone could find it very quickly..."

    We both know what you are doing. Drop the act.
    I’m really confused. What act? I don’t understand the disconnect here and get information. It was never my intent to offend or upset you or anyone else.
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromantic View Post
    In a way, it actually does. That's how Fortnite got so many naive kids hooked. Today, there are a several people who are addicted to making their online person(s) look all flashy and the more options you have, the more you're likely to lure somebody in than if you only had a few things to choose from.
    It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.

    And I know you know that because you used a totally different game in a totally different genre with a totally different monetization structure in response to my responding to a comment about the store in this game.
    Last edited by Arlette; 2022-10-03 at 08:52 PM.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.

    And I know you know that because you used a totally different game in a totally different genre with a totally different monetization structure in response to my responding to a comment about the store in this game.
    So various aesthetics are not available for FFXIV?
    Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by MsSideEye View Post
    Reading comprehension, my friend... It really helps. This is legitimately what I said is the only instance where FFXIV has the 'One dies, everyone dies' set up, and it's both not pushed on the players nor is it used as a measuring stick of what you're capable of unless you're already DOING savage/extreme/ultimate. Compared to WoW, where they've got UI elements, special achievements, and even text on the gear that tells everyone just how far along you've gotten in Mythic+.

    If you want me to have a better way of saying it, how about this? With the way WoW is designed and set up right now, the expectation is there for you to push yourself into harder content, to be the pushing mythic keys and trying harder and harder to give your best. Even if you don't have to do it, it feels like you should because the game itself goes 'look, here's this cool thing we made for you to keep track of how high you've gotten in the difficulty slider!'. It makes for a more competitive atmosphere and, in turn, can breed a lot of problems when others aren't trying as hard and impact your own progress.
    I mean, ffxiv does similar things, it has achievements special rewards for doing the hard content via the best weapon looks in the game, mounts, and titles that do push people to do content very similarly to wow. It really seems to be you view ffxiv differently than you view wow, and thats cool, but you are implying your subjective opinion is how it really works in the game. There is no real difference in the two games outside of the community regarding navigating people towards content, which has a large casual fanbase that doesnt care to do the insanely hard stuff no matter how much ffxiv would push for it. On the raid side of ffxiv, there is no real difference than the wow side community wise.

    All in all, it really seems like you view ffxiv as more casual and nothing else, because the hardcore aspect is there, and pushed by square enix, just the game has more than only hardcore raiding and gear grinding so it attracts a wider variety of people.

    Fuck, the chase to get the ucob title alone did wonders to get me into hardcore raiding far more than wow ever did past like wrath. I would argue, personally, ffxiv does a better job to get people interested in raiding than wow does cause those titles and weapons do be fancy when roaming around social events in ffxiv, and being fancy matters .
    Last edited by Moralgy; 2022-10-03 at 10:05 PM.

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    It’s almost like in that game, cosmetics are available on the store to buy for money. This is untrue for FF14.[/I]
    What are you talking about? The FFXIV store is filled with glamours, emotes, mounts, dyes etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Addiena
    Whats the saying .. You have two brain cells and they are both fighting for third place !

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    It's still a story game at its heart. You can't buy skips for regular RPGs either.

    As for gameplay: most of the bitching there comes from people going "wtf i am level 20 and I don't have my full rotation yet? yikes oof ugh i am going back to that other game where I have two whole abilities by level 20 but it's okay if they do it." That said, I do hope they consider some ability redistribution and/or a way to make level cap rotation relevant outside of endgame raids, endgame dungeons and endgame trials. I love the the stuff I have at lvl 90, but there's a 4 in 5 (or higher) chance that I'll be dumped into content under that level unless I run expert and lvl 90 dungeon roulettes. It feels... not so good.
    The biggest difference comes in two things: WoW has a faster GCD and is *much* more responsive, and WoW classes (particularly in retail) are very heavy on procs, so you're usually getting extra buttons to push. WoW mobs also tend to deal more damage and take more damage (their effective HP is lower), so combat is also much faster in general.

    I think I mentioned it some pages ago, but XIV is laser-focused on raid design. They design classes and combat flow around high-end raiding and it trickles down from there. Whereas WoW (at least in Classic versions, I haven't really touched retail since Legion) seems to design the classes to feel fun while stabbing bears in the overworld and then adapts raid designs around those different class designs - although WoW obviously began to homogenize and simply things starting in Cata (the first major whack at rage normalization took place in Cata, and it was resolved I think in WoD?) for the sake of gameplay balance. Sweaties always ruin the fun for everyone else, lol.

    This difference in design goals tend to make open world combat in XIV rather bland, regardless of class level. I think it could possibly be improved by simply reducing cooldowns on actions (15s cooldowns on standard damage oGCDs instead of the usual 30s, etc), at least somewhat. For example, in WotLK my Prot Warrior at level 60 (3/4 of the way to level cap) has Revenge on a 5 sec cooldown, Shield Slam on a 6 sec cooldown, Thunder Clap on a 6 sec cooldown, and Devastate as a filler ability that has a 30% chance per tap to reset the cooldown on my Shield Slam. It's so much more *active* than pretty much any other class in XIV outside of their "once every 2 minutes" ability vomit phase, and I think this combined with the generally lower monster eHP makes for more enjoyable questing. You're doing more inputs, and those inputs each feel like they have more meaning - Devastate tends to hit like a wet noodle, but it's basically fishing to refresh a more powerful skill early, and Revenge is only active after avoiding an attack and hits like an absolute truck (probably an Inner Chaos hit from XIV WAR, as nearest comparison, except it hits two dudes instead of one) so you're rewarding for pulling lots of dudes at once. I think later versions of WoW tanks are arguably even better, once they moved to active mitigation design over the previous designs - think like how PLD uses Sheltron, except more active and more interactive.

    I don't think it's possible to remedy "world combat is kinda boring" without dramatically reworking the gameplay systems, though. But they sure as fuck could at least put *some* effort into non-level cap play, considering how much of the time you spend in DF is level synced. Everyone needs to have AOE at 15 for Sastasha, people should get core filler skills *before* major burst window cooldowns, etc. Give WHM a water-type spell that does a bit of AOE damage and then trait that into Holy at 45 - stuff like that. They've shown a lot of precedence for "+10 potency to a few different things and a fancier animation" traits, so I don't know why they can't just do that to make lower level content more enjoyable too. EW would've been a fine time to do it, too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stabbyfists View Post
    as someone who played since Realm Reborn, what benefits? More bank space? More Auction House slots? Gathering that takes hours to complete? Its not like the retainers can be used to fight for you in raids or anything. The Materials needed to craft the best items pre savage mode and potions need to be farmed via Tomestones.

    Also as someone who pays for 2 extra retainers (But on a basic sub so it evens out to a normal sub price) its 1 dollar extra per month for an extra retainer. and I only rent the retainers for the back space and I am about to deactivate 2 of them because I do not need the space until the next expansion when I store extra job gear when I level up all my jobs again.
    More AH slots and more gathering is pretty relevant. Retainers have no problems bringing back timed node stuff that you can use to craft housing items and other commodities and turn that into money.

    I also like that you literally talk about *spending real money* to obtain more *temporary* bag space to store job gear and other things that they damn fucking well should just give you free storage for. That's some fucking gaslighting right there - it's okay that it costs me *REAL MONEY* to store items the game throws at me and expects me to possess, because I'll turn it off next month and thereafter I only need to give them more *REAL MONEY* at a later date to be able to retrieve or exchange items in those bags!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    I'm just going to say one thing: god I wish XIV had more bag space and more intuitive bags. It's a fucking fresh hell to be leveling jobs and find that your armoury chest and your regular bags are filled up before you can blink.
    Big pet peeve for me is that you can't switch jobs if the armory bag is full. Like, it doesn't have any system where it will just place the extra item(s) in your regular inventory or just literally swap rings or whatever around. It apparently needs an open space to be able to swap rings, or something.

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