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  1. #541
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalkyrie View Post
    I already said originally, you're time isn't valuable. Stop expecting other players to bend around your problems or things you can't be bothered with.
    Because you think that peoples' time isn't valuable, you think it gives you a free pass to waste it ?

    I can't imagine being that entitled and disrespectful toward others.

  2. #542
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    Because you think that peoples' time isn't valuable, you think it gives you a free pass to waste it ?

    I can't imagine being that entitled and disrespectful toward others.
    That's a joke right? Accusing others of things you're doing yourself? Yeah, I'm not up for that. Take it easy.

  3. #543
    This entire argument is, as usual with this thread, one person exaggerating to such an insane degree that people are now arguing about philosophical concepts. It's always intentionally done because the real point the person starting the fight is making is so laughably stupid that they know it can't stand on its own merits.

    That is exactly what Dwill is doing. Extrapolating the point to try and pretend he's making something that wouldn't be laughed out of every group he'd find himself in.

  4. #544
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    You, or any of the other two person for that matter, have yet to answer why, time or constraint or not, you feel entitled to waste anyone's time ?
    Tbh it is kinda sad that ppl here don't really care abt other people's time. But honestly you do have solutions so I don't really see the point in trying to convince others. Playing with full premades in this game is pretty easy, also just make your own groups and you'll have complete control over them.



    I kick people in PF a lot depending on the content I'm doing without ever saying a word, 0 tolerance for slackers/trolls (obviously not in casual/fun parties.) In roulettes I just play healer and pull for the tank if they're going too slow, once they see I can heal the damage they usually roll with it. I refuse to be held hostage by XIV community anymore and it's been working great for me so far.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  5. #545
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    In roulettes I just play healer and pull for the tank if they're going too slow, once they see I can heal the damage they usually roll with it. I refuse to be held hostage by XIV community anymore and it's been working great for me so far.
    People like this ruin a community.

  6. #546
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    You, or any of the other two person for that matter, have yet to answer why, time or constraint or not, you feel entitled to waste anyone's time ?
    Because you're playing a game with other people. This fact applies to you as much as it does to them, since you love to invoke it so much.

  7. #547
    Managing your time has been a common discipline since the dawn of mmos with dungeons. If you are looking to do a dungeon/raid/trial/ect. Then it is your responsibility to set enough time aside to do said content with other players. They are not there for your benefit and to make you happy, theyre there to complete a certain objective should that be a quest, exp, or gear. If by some unfortunate situation such as a bathroom break or some other reason that all falls into time management.

    If im a dps looking to grind a few dungeons i set aside hours, if im a healer the same can be said because not all tanks are confident enough to wall to wall pull and its not my place to force it, if im the tank the same can be said for healers. If you think you’re above wasting other peoples time but get mad when they waste yours then maybe take up a different game.

  8. #548
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    People like this ruin a community.
    I know I'm being baited but how so? I've played like this since getting comfortable with the game in Stormblood. I've never been disciplined or to my knowledge reported and I have almost 2k hrs in the game.


    The tank pulls slow > I pull for them > They see the group is fine > They start doing wall to walls.


    If they speak up about it I explain why they can and should pull wall-to-wall and tell them it's okay and 9/10 times they thank me for explaining and do it with 0 issues. The tanks that are adamant about not pulling more than one are rare enough that I just roll with it and move on.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  9. #549
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    True, to be honest. What are you in a rush to do? Why must you really leave that dungeon 5 minutes earlier or it's a bust? Are your friends waiting for you to prog savage? An Ultimate? If so, you're kind of doing a horrible job at managing your time if it comes down to the wire like that.

    Otherwise, there's nothing that could demand your time. Not crafting, not beast tribes, not sidequests. Maybe Gold Saucer minigames? Maybe Sightseeing Logs? Please don't tell me you rush-rush-rush through a duty finder dungeon just to zone back into Limsa and AFK there....
    WoW unfortunately has tainted a lot of MMO players into the mindset of grind ASAP, afk for hours. Grind ASAP, log. Daily grind, log. Which kind of defeats the purpose of a game, lol. "Today, I'm going to waste 45 minutes doing this daily task and hating every moment of it wishing it was faster." Ironic, obviously. No clue why people do it, or what possesses people to keep playing a game they're just daily / raid logging into and having no fun.

    It's the same thing with people who play Overwatch or something and just can't put it down despite always being mad at it and pretending they're still having fun - while either ignorantly, or willingly not knowing it does affect you mentally.

  10. #550
    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    WoW unfortunately has tainted a lot of MMO players into the mindset of grind ASAP, afk for hours. Grind ASAP, log. Daily grind, log. Which kind of defeats the purpose of a game, lol. "Today, I'm going to waste 45 minutes doing this daily task and hating every moment of it wishing it was faster." Ironic, obviously. No clue why people do it, or what possesses people to keep playing a game they're just daily / raid logging into and having no fun.

    It's the same thing with people who play Overwatch or something and just can't put it down despite always being mad at it and pretending they're still having fun - while either ignorantly, or willingly not knowing it does affect you mentally.
    Well, there are other facets to it, too.

    Going slow just isn't all that enjoyable, for example. It's not just about saving the 5 minutes, it's about the run being a bore when people pull one pack at a time. Granted, I'm not going to pull for them - as discussed in the other threads - but I'm not going to have a super fun run either.

    Also, that time can add up when you have another goal in mind. Like if you're leveling a job via dungeons, tacking 5 minutes onto each one can add up over a day. It's not the end of the world, of course, but you might do one fewer run than you had in mind if a few of them are really slow. Not to mention that it'll start feeling like a huge slog because of the first point.

    None of these are HUGE issues, but there could be more to someone's opinion than just, "hurr durr ima wow playr i go googogogo lulz"
    Last edited by Ghost of Cow; 2022-10-15 at 04:09 PM.

  11. #551
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghost of Cow View Post
    Well, there are other facets to it, too.

    Going slow just isn't all that enjoyable, for example. It's not just about saving the 5 minutes, it's about the run being a bore when people pull one pack at a time. Granted, I'm not going to pull for them - as discussed in the other threads - but I'm not going to have a super fun run either.

    Also, that time can add up when you have another goal in mind. Like if you're leveling a job via dungeons, tacking 5 minutes onto each one can add up over a day. It's not the end of the world, of course, but you might do one fewer run than you had in mind if a few of them are really slow. Not to mention that it'll start feeling like a huge slog because of the first point.

    None of these are HUGE issues, but there could be more to someone's opinion than just, "hurr durr ima wow playr i go googogogo lulz"
    Well no, I never said it was the end of the world - but those who make it out to be tend to have that mindset ingrained in their brain from other players, or other games. I don't blame people for wanting to go fast or the need to go fast, either. It just can end up being abrasive as hell if people aren't flexible. This very forum has shown how angry people get over it, just look at the whole flying / no flying debate.

  12. #552
    Can we also acknowledge that while it does happen, it's rare for tanks that aren't sprouts (Or are deliberately partying with sprout Healers) to pull only 1 pack at a time. Normally we're talking about tanks pulling 2/3rdsish of a wall-to-wall amount of packs instead of all of them.

    But because we can't have an honest discussion about this non-issue, dishonest actors are framing it as something that's happening what seems like every dungeon they are in. Because if they don't exaggerate then people will more easily see through the nonsense.

  13. #553
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    Can we also acknowledge that while it does happen, it's rare for tanks that aren't sprouts (Or are deliberately partying with sprout Healers) to pull only 1 pack at a time. Normally we're talking about tanks pulling 2/3rdsish of a wall-to-wall amount of packs instead of all of them.

    But because we can't have an honest discussion about this non-issue, dishonest actors are framing it as something that's happening what seems like every dungeon they are in. Because if they don't exaggerate then people will more easily see through the nonsense.
    Of course, it's actually pretty rare. I almost never see it, in fact.

    But people wanna discuss it, so eh.

  14. #554
    Bloodsail Admiral Sharby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    WoW unfortunately has tainted a lot of MMO players into the mindset of grind ASAP, afk for hours. Grind ASAP, log. Daily grind, log. Which kind of defeats the purpose of a game, lol. "Today, I'm going to waste 45 minutes doing this daily task and hating every moment of it wishing it was faster." Ironic, obviously. No clue why people do it, or what possesses people to keep playing a game they're just daily / raid logging into and having no fun.

    It's the same thing with people who play Overwatch or something and just can't put it down despite always being mad at it and pretending they're still having fun - while either ignorantly, or willingly not knowing it does affect you mentally.
    Framing WoW as the root cause of this mindset is pretty weird, people would still act like this regardless of WoW's involvement. WoW doesn't even come close to being a big offender in insidious game design that manipulates the player into becoming addicted.



    There's also in-the-moment complaining vs actually feeling that way long term. From the people in my circles that complain while they play they're mostly overacting for humor but genuinely enjoy the game. I don't think anyone would actually play a game they truly hate unless they felt obligated to due to time investment.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  15. #555
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    3-5 minutes for every roulettes adds up. Why do you feel that people are entitled to waste other people's time ?
    Ya know, I really don't want to join in on this but I just dislike this "what if" scenario.
    It doesn't happen in every roulette, not even in the majority of them. So your point just doesn't exist.

    In your case it makes even less sense, because kicking someone actually takes time as well and if you play with 2 friends, I don't know what the heck a random could possibly do to slow down your runs, in any significant way whatsoever, anyway.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-10-15 at 06:57 PM.

  16. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by Xalkyrie View Post
    That's a joke right? Accusing others of things you're doing yourself? Yeah, I'm not up for that. Take it easy.
    What ? I'm not the one saying it's okay for other people to have their time wasted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    Tbh it is kinda sad that ppl here don't really care abt other people's time. But honestly you do have solutions so I don't really see the point in trying to convince others. Playing with full premades in this game is pretty easy, also just make your own groups and you'll have complete control over them.



    I kick people in PF a lot depending on the content I'm doing without ever saying a word, 0 tolerance for slackers/trolls (obviously not in casual/fun parties.) In roulettes I just play healer and pull for the tank if they're going too slow, once they see I can heal the damage they usually roll with it. I refuse to be held hostage by XIV community anymore and it's been working great for me so far.
    I don't know enough people to always run premade but I pretty much only play when my 2 friends are available. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt first before kicking but if it's clear that they don't care/can't be bothered, then kick it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    That is exactly what Dwill is doing. Extrapolating the point to try and pretend he's making something that wouldn't be laughed out of every group he'd find himself in.
    That's funny because most, if not, every single kick I initiate for the reasons I stated goes through. People don't like having their time wasted, who would have thought ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Because you're playing a game with other people. This fact applies to you as much as it does to them, since you love to invoke it so much.
    Yes we all play a MMO, thanks for noticing. Now tell me again how that reason is a free pass for wasting people's time ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    Ya know, I really don't want to join in on this but I just dislike this "what if" scenario.
    It doesn't happen in every roulette, not even in the majority of them. So your point just doesn't exist.
    It happens enough to the point I notice. Maybe not for you, so congratulationss, you have a better experience than I do. Doesn't make the point non existent.


    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    In your case it makes even less sense, because kicking someone actually takes time as well and if you play with 2 friends, I don't know what the heck a random could possibly do to slow down your runs, in any significant way whatsoever, anyway.
    I play with 2 people nearly all the time, kick, from initiating to having the person removed takes less than 10 seconds. If someone doesn't care enough to do the bare minimum, he can slack somewhere else.

  17. #557
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    That's funny because most, if not, every single kick I initiate for the reasons I stated goes through. People don't like having their time wasted, who would have thought ?
    I was going to make a post about how your subjective experience isn't the case for the objective overall playerbase but I don't want to, instead I'll just say:

    Based on how dishonestly you've acted in this thread, I do not believe you.

  18. #558
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post

    It happens enough to the point I notice. Maybe not for you, so congratulationss, you have a better experience than I do. Doesn't make the point non existent.
    Yes it does make the point non existent when it doesn't happen even close to every single roulette - and it doesn't. Which means instead of 3-5 mins adding up to half an hour, it's still just 3-5 minutes. And that's leaving out votekick-rules that were in place back when I last had to do this to kick someone who was AFK. Things like "The Dungeon has to run for 5 minutes" and "If loot is being rolled on you can't kick" and all that jazz, so unless they removed stuff like that as well, you are gaining even less time because you are already through 1/3 of the dungeon.

    Everything else you are saying is simply a lie, just like how finding a new player takes less than 10 seconds considering thats already the time some people need to load into the instance, meaning if you would actually measure the time, you are probably just saving 2 minutes a day. Congrats.

    The only reason you kick people is because you are a dick. Own it, that's fine. Not every person can be nice, you are one of those that aren't and have a weird urge to do some malice and be a karen.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2022-10-16 at 09:13 AM.

  19. #559
    Quote Originally Posted by Dwill View Post
    What ? I'm not the one saying it's okay for other people to have their time wasted.



    I don't know enough people to always run premade but I pretty much only play when my 2 friends are available. I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt first before kicking but if it's clear that they don't care/can't be bothered, then kick it is.



    That's funny because most, if not, every single kick I initiate for the reasons I stated goes through. People don't like having their time wasted, who would have thought ?



    Yes we all play a MMO, thanks for noticing. Now tell me again how that reason is a free pass for wasting people's time ?



    It happens enough to the point I notice. Maybe not for you, so congratulationss, you have a better experience than I do. Doesn't make the point non existent.




    I play with 2 people nearly all the time, kick, from initiating to having the person removed takes less than 10 seconds. If someone doesn't care enough to do the bare minimum, he can slack somewhere else.
    Your time isn't any more sacred than that of the other people in the group. If the potentiality of 5 extra minutes is that concerning to you, just make a premade or don't play games.

  20. #560
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlette View Post
    Can we also acknowledge that while it does happen, it's rare for tanks that aren't sprouts (Or are deliberately partying with sprout Healers) to pull only 1 pack at a time. Normally we're talking about tanks pulling 2/3rdsish of a wall-to-wall amount of packs instead of all of them.

    But because we can't have an honest discussion about this non-issue, dishonest actors are framing it as something that's happening what seems like every dungeon they are in. Because if they don't exaggerate then people will more easily see through the nonsense.
    This is a tough subject for me because anecdotally I have no experience because I main PLD. The only time someone pulls for me is because I didn't know there was another pull. I never complain, I usually apologize and thank them for showing me there was one more pack and pick up aggro and clear the dungeon as quickly as possible. Something like "oh shit, sorry didn't realize there was another pack, thanks for showing me that!".

    The flip side of this - is why you'll see my issues and anecdotes center around lazy dps/healers because those are the roles I'm actively watching/playing with. Very few stories about bad tanks, unless we're talking co-tanks in savage. I got PLENTY of those.

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