FFXIV Criticisms

[EmperorofMankind]

If you like the story you'll like the game. If you don't, you probably won't.

I didn't always feel this way, but these days I'd say that the only merit the game has is pretty much just playing through the story. Endgame really isn't worth it. Ultimates are purely for cosmetics and Savage raiding doesn't give any meaningful rewards other than good gear for the current tier. If you don't like being on the endless hamster wheel, don't bother.

It is not about me liking the story or not, it is about the story dragging itself. Long unnecessary dialog lines, having one quest start in one part of continent and finishes in another. It wouldn't be so bad if they would be all voiced but they are not. I really get tired reading them.

It has to be emphasized that you're not really playing a game, or an RPG. Everything is gated by story progression. To reach endgame (the latest raids people are doing), you have to go through a 400+ hour long story, half of which is spent watching cutscenes. Another 25% of your time is spent talking to NPCs or running to the next NPC. What little actual gameplay there is, is braindead easy. You're usually asked to go out into a spot at a field and spawn three mobs, two shot them, then run back to the NPC to watch more cutscenes. Or you do a scripted solo instance. Occasionally you will get to queue for a dungeon to do with other people, though you can now do most of the story with NPCs now. When I went through the story, it was never challenging outside of four instances, all of which have now been nerfed into the ground or reworked or trivialized by powercreep (King Moogle Mog, the ARR Steps of Faith, the level 70 Red Mage instance, and the In From the Cold duty in Endwalker). You do not get to pick talents or perform RPG customization of any sort. It really is a game for someone who wants to passively consume a safe anime story.

That's what I meant it is a grind but not a pleasant grind either. I play a lot of point and click games and idle games, they are grind games but it is kinda a nice grind. In any other mmo/rpg i am not forced to such horrible grind.

• Baby's first JRPG/visual novel. We've had an entire generation of people grow up having never been exposed to a high production value JRPG before so they are getting mindblown by their first exposure.

• Later on the game increasingly panders to tumblrites/redditors with the protagonist worship, feel good stuff, dress up, etc.

• The state of the RPG genre is abysmal. We haven't had a big budget high fantasy RPG since the Witcher 3 almost 8 years ago, so people's options are limited. You either play WoW/GW2/ESO/FFXIV, lower budget JRPGs like Trails or Tales of or Atelier, or you have to play old games. Or you accept that the state of high production value, audio visual high fantasy fiction is just in a really really bad place and find other things to fill your time with.

• ERP

Also, it should be noted that the state of music is really bad. FFXIV is a lot of people's first exposure to a decent soundtrack. Or at least, it was. Not fond of the soundtrack being increasingly dominated by pop songs as of the last two expansions. Still better than almost everything you hear in a Western game, though.

- - - Updated - - -

Also, the game does look overall pretty enough, at least in cutscenes where you get to stare at your character model with proper cutscene lighting applied on him to make him look good. The characters look attractive and the armor designs are nice. Nice spell effects in cutscenes. The game does have graphical issues (poor lighting issues and shadows outside of cutscenes, low resolution ground textures, etc). No matter how much people have recommended ESO to me, the plastic looking characters and the ugly armors and the environments and overall look of that game are a dealbreaker to me. GW2 doesn't look bad but it usually doesn't look very pretty either. Most MMOs look hideous. SWTOR, STO, Rift, LotRO, etc. FFXIV is perhaps the nicest looking high fantasy RPG in recent memory behind WoW and Trails/Atelier, but again that's more indicative of the state of the genre. So you're back to people's choices being limited.

Another appealing thing about FFXIV is that you can comfortably play it with a controller. Once you experience it, it is hard to go back to mouse and keyboard, and the controller and camera mods for WoW and GW2 simply don't compare.

I do not know where you live but in my country, when i was growing up, people who were interested in jrpg or ffxiv were considered wimps/pussies.
That is not true we had games like pathfinder kingmaker/wrath of the righteous, divinity original sin 1/2 , tyranny, ac origins, cyberpunk had a nice story despite being a horrible game. Baldurs gate 3 will be releasing soon.
Few years ago i came to a conclusion that i cannot commit myself to one game anymore because of that i switch my mmo's rather regullary, i usually cannot play one mmo for more then 30 days because i am getting bored.
I also play my older games like baldurs gate, legacy of kain, gothic if i get nostalgic vibes.
Gothic 3 had awesome music. Mirror edge and rome total war also had decent music not to mention heroes of might and magic 3.
I have to agree with eso statement, i hate the character design every race looks the same. GW2 on the other hand has too many flashy effects and animations and because of my illness i cannot play too flashy games but i have to disagree on how the characters look. They look 100% better than those in ffxiv. You cannot accept game who were released in 2007 to have same look that ffxiv does. When i play my warden in lotro i really do not think he looks hideous in contrary he looks nice. It is more important that all characters in specific game do not break immersion aka have the same art design.
A console peasant then :P I am from PC master race.
I am pc gamer since the 90's and i would never touch a console game ever. Mouse and keyboard are superior to controller in every way.

The community is far less toxic. The GMs actually punish people for trolling and/or being toxic. The classes are a lot of fun to play. You're not stuck with the same class on a single character which lessens the need for alts. The world is beutificully detailed. Mounts have their own theme songs when you use them with different mounts getting different songs.

I could keep going but there's some examples of why the game is so popular.

Community being toxic or not is not the main reason for playing a game, it can be a secondary reason. I could give info about single player games that have fun classes to play. This game multi class system on single character is horrible. If i create paladin i want to be a paladin only like in any other mmo's. It is more then that because i want my mage to be female of specific race but i want warrior to be male of a specific race. This game punishes me for that. The classes have only one spec which is lazy design decission. In wow if i want to play a paladin i can be dps, tank or a healer. In ffxiv if choose white mage i can only be a healer which forces me to play classes that lore i do not like because they have a specific combat role.

[MrLachyG]

I mean it has tons and tons of filler quests that basically destroy the feel of the story, most of quests are not voiced (it is 2023 and still most of the stuff is not voiced despite the fact the game is produced by AAA studio), you are forced to play through one expansion to the next (in wow you can access the newest expansion immediately, after reaching a correct level), every class has only one spec and etc.
I could go on and on, so my question stands what is so great about this mmo that people force themselves through the grind that is main story quest aka msq.
I lost count how many time i spent clicking on mouse to go through the long *** conversation during msq,
So i would be thankful for the info,
Cheers

because people have different tastes?

[EmperorofMankind]

because people have different tastes?

What tastes have to do with this? This has nothing to do with tastes but rather with the execution. We have year 2023, not year 2007, if a game is made by AAA studio there are some standards that must be kept like voice acting, proper animations etc. When Oblivion was released in 2006 it had full voice acting. If FFXIV was made by indie studio i wouldn't complain but it is made by square enix, one of the biggest companies, so i expect a proper budget for it that include voice acting. I have played mods for games that had more voice acting than ffxiv. So it has nothing to do with tastes.
Another thing when i play other rpg's every quest have meaning, in ffxiv only 1 to 10 quest have an impact on the world.
So yeah, that is my gripe with this game.

[TheRevenantHero]

It is not about me liking the story or not, it is about the story dragging itself. Long unnecessary dialog lines, having one quest start in one part of continent and finishes in another. It wouldn't be so bad if they would be all voiced but they are not. I really get tired reading them.



That's what I meant it is a grind but not a pleasant grind either. I play a lot of point and click games and idle games, they are grind games but it is kinda a nice grind. In any other mmo/rpg i am not forced to such horrible grind.



I do not know where you live but in my country, when i was growing up, people who were interested in jrpg or ffxiv were considered wimps/pussies.
That is not true we had games like pathfinder kingmaker/wrath of the righteous, divinity original sin 1/2 , tyranny, ac origins, cyberpunk had a nice story despite being a horrible game. Baldurs gate 3 will be releasing soon.
Few years ago i came to a conclusion that i cannot commit myself to one game anymore because of that i switch my mmo's rather regullary, i usually cannot play one mmo for more then 30 days because i am getting bored.
I also play my older games like baldurs gate, legacy of kain, gothic if i get nostalgic vibes.
Gothic 3 had awesome music. Mirror edge and rome total war also had decent music not to mention heroes of might and magic 3.
I have to agree with eso statement, i hate the character design every race looks the same. GW2 on the other hand has too many flashy effects and animations and because of my illness i cannot play too flashy games but i have to disagree on how the characters look. They look 100% better than those in ffxiv. You cannot accept game who were released in 2007 to have same look that ffxiv does. When i play my warden in lotro i really do not think he looks hideous in contrary he looks nice. It is more important that all characters in specific game do not break immersion aka have the same art design.
A console peasant then :P I am from PC master race.
I am pc gamer since the 90's and i would never touch a console game ever. Mouse and keyboard are superior to controller in every way.



Community being toxic or not is not the main reason for playing a game, it can be a secondary reason. I could give info about single player games that have fun classes to play. This game multi class system on single character is horrible. If i create paladin i want to be a paladin only like in any other mmo's. It is more then that because i want my mage to be female of specific race but i want warrior to be male of a specific race. This game punishes me for that. The classes have only one spec which is lazy design decission. In wow if i want to play a paladin i can be dps, tank or a healer. In ffxiv if choose white mage i can only be a healer which forces me to play classes that lore i do not like because they have a specific combat role.

The community not being super toxic in an mmo is a HUGE deal. And bringing up single players games is literally irrelevant to this topic. And the multi-class system does NOT punish you. You can still make alts, the game just makes so that you don't HAVE TO. And each class having one spec is not lazy design and it's mind-boggling that you'd say it is. It's clear you are just going to do mental gymnastics to say something negative about the game.

[Ghost of Cow]

The alts question is interesting...it's great that XIV lets you play all classes on one character, but at the same time your progression is throttled by weekly caps just like any other MMO. The difference being that in those other MMOs, you can easily level up other jobs and have separate weekly timers for each one of them.

Trying that in XIV would be...daunting to say the least?

It doesn't matter for 90% of players probably, but I'm sure there's a segment that finds the job system and difficulty of progressing alts a bit off-putting in that regard.

[zealo]

The alts question is interesting...it's great that XIV lets you play all classes on one character, but at the same time your progression is throttled by weekly caps just like any other MMO. The difference being that in those other MMOs, you can easily level up other jobs and have separate weekly timers for each one of them.

Trying that in XIV would be...daunting to say the least?

It doesn't matter for 90% of players probably, but I'm sure there's a segment that finds the job system and difficulty of progressing alts a bit off-putting in that regard.

Really the biggest problem with end-game gearing in this game.

450 tomes a week and a weekly cap on raid loot / books isn't enough to actually gear all the jobs the game lets you level on one character at the same time in any reasonable time frame beyond crafted gear.

I kinda understand they don't want people to progress too quickly on a single job immediately after the release of a tier, but these restrictions remain in effect for far too long after that. Like, they should be lifted in the next major odd numbered patch after a raid tier at it's latest, not only for a couple of weeks before the release of the next set of raid bosses.

[EmperorofMankind]

The community not being super toxic in an mmo is a HUGE deal. And bringing up single players games is literally irrelevant to this topic. And the multi-class system does NOT punish you. You can still make alts, the game just makes so that you don't HAVE TO. And each class having one spec is not lazy design and it's mind-boggling that you'd say it is. It's clear you are just going to do mental gymnastics to say something negative about the game.

Community being toxic or not is only relevant when you are playing a game and not when you are choosing a game to play. If the community is not toxic is it a huge incentive to keep playing but what initially hooked you up was the gameplay/story etc.
Multi-class does punish me because if i have already committed myself to one character it means i spend a long time finishing msq and if i want to make an alt i have to do this over again or i can spend over 20 euros to skip the story. In wow there are many things that are account unlocked, so if i do them on one character there unlocked on all my characters.
One spec per class is lazy design, let me prove it.
In gw2 your attacks are based on the weapon you choose so you basically can be anything on every class not to mention elite specializations gives you the opportunity to totally change your playstyle while playing a specific class.
In ESO every class has tons of skill tries that allow you to change your playstyle. One awesome thing is that you can explore the world as you see fit. You are not being held by invisible hand and told you must do this now, visit this area etc.
In wow, due to chromie time you can level in any expansion, you are not forced to single expansion until the latest expansion.
When it comes to swtor, at least every class has three specs. One damage feels different from another in same spec. On top of that it has the best pvp since i am pve guy and still love pvp in swtor that saying something since i do not play pvp in other games.
I really do not get why you say having only one spec per class is not lazy design. I remember when demon hunter was released with only 2 specs how many people was pissed. Not to mention that druid has four specs.
I haven't played lotro in long time so i won't talk about this mmo here.
Look i played FFXIV since 2.0. so i know what i am talking about. I was giving this game many chances.
So what is not "mental gymnastics" for you then?
I like many parts of the ffxiv but that doesn't mean I won't criticise it.

[HeatBlast]

What tastes have to do with this? This has nothing to do with tastes but rather with the execution.

Okay, so this is about being objective then, so we'll -

We have year 2023, not year 2007, if a game is made by AAA studio there are some standards that must be kept like voice acting, proper animations etc.

Oh, so a game that released closer to 2007 (2010 for original 14, 2013 for ARR) than 2023 is objectively bad because it looks closer to what games were like then, when it was released, than now. . . Okay, sure, that's "logic" I guess.

They've slated a graphical overhaul for next xpac, but that's an incredibly silly thing to complain about, since WoW doesn't get total graphical overhauls every xpac either, I don't think there is a single MMO that does, actually. Do you remember the memes about Oblivion's voice acting? I absolutely do not think you want to use Oblivion as your yardstick when it comes to this, as fun and enjoyable as oblivion is, the voice acting isn't one thing I'd be jumping up to go "Yes, that is, right there, another reason for it to be seen as the peak of AAA game making!"

Proper animations? Okay, what are we defining as "proper animations"? I don't often come across "improper animations" while playing, you'll have to extrapolate what this even means, because it could be that everyone is T-posing randomly and glitching into walls or up to, and including "I'M USED TO 2023 GAME AND THIS DOESN'T DO 2023 GAME THING DO!" Which we've already kind of gone over this game isn't made in, my child, god's year 2023.

If FFXIV was made by indie studio i wouldn't complain but it is made by square enix, one of the biggest companies, so i expect a proper budget for it that include voice acting. I have played mods for games that had more voice acting than ffxiv. So it has nothing to do with tastes.

Okay, so when you said this wasn't about subjective tastes, you weren't being honest then; because this is about as subjective as it gets, since for me voice acting isn't necessary, it's nice in main-story necessary cutscenes, and it does make fights like hephaistos better, but it isn't "objective execution".

This is literally about subjective tastes, full voice acting sure as FUCK isn't a necessity to me, and equally can be disjointing and frustrating (How many arrows to the knee do you need to hear about?)

Another thing when i play other rpg's every quest have meaning, in ffxiv only 1 to 10 quest have an impact on the world. So yeah, that is my gripe with this game.

That's just blatantly false, since not only do other RPGs also have fun, dumb, sidequests that sometimes range from just world-building to literal jokes, what meaning are you attributing here, because the only "meaning" I can see is, "Other RPGS have quests I like, this doesn't, therefore game objectively bad".

There are complaints that are pretty universal: ARR is long as shit and the story does meander quite a bit, but Heavensward onwards tightens it quite a lot, with HW and ShB being very tight, impactful stories with a lot on the line, and quite an enjoyable cast presented. The biggest thing I can attribute to your posts is you don't like the game, which is fine, people aren't going to all like everything nor what everyone else likes, but it's all subjective things, so when you can't understand why people like ff14, it's specifically down to "different strokes for different folks", there's no objective measurement to be found, your interests game-wise don't align, not that the game is bad.

- - - Updated - - -

Really the biggest problem with end-game gearing in this game.

450 tomes a week and a weekly cap on raid loot / books isn't enough to actually gear all the jobs the game lets you level on one character at the same time in any reasonable time frame beyond crafted gear.

I kinda understand they don't want people to progress too quickly on a single job immediately after the release of a tier, but these restrictions remain in effect for far too long after that. Like, they should be lifted in the next major odd numbered patch after a raid tier at it's latest, not only for a couple of weeks before the release of the next set of raid bosses.

It depends on what you see as a problem: If you want the community approved™ it'll be a pain, since even between healers there can be 1-2 piece anomalies, but for the most part I gear up 3 roles quite easily before the relevant ultimate has swung around, or whatever needs gear for that patch cycle (last xpac being just for fun, since no ultimate nor any real relevant gear-duties also came out). Crafted gear can do you for almost anything outside of the "gear treadmill" content that has been dropping (ultimate+criterion hard mode), but you still have a decent amount of time to gear up other jobs, before ToP was released I had ninja, phys range, all casters, half of healers BiS (this was in november, so I could have had time to finish off healers and MAYBE squeeze out another melee).

If you play solely in PF, then the complaint makes more sense as being a real pain: PF is a bloody crapshoot for gear luck, but at least Anabeseios is making changes, and good ones at that, I just don't find it hard to gear up many roles in a tier, but latest I've cleared since promise was week 4, so maybe that might be why (plus I join statics, so gear gets decent distribution). I'm unsure how you "fix" gearing up through PF I'm afraid, though I'm still of the opinion once the "reason" for gearing is open (Ultimate for example) coffers should unlock too. I had to swap from phys range to ninja to caster in our ToP prog and clear, and I was lucky I had them BiS already, if I had to swap to healer or something we'd have to hard stall prog. They wait far too long to unlock tiers, that's for sure.

[TheRevenantHero]

Community being toxic or not is only relevant when you are playing a game and not when you are choosing a game to play. If the community is not toxic is it a huge incentive to keep playing but what initially hooked you up was the gameplay/story etc.
Multi-class does punish me because if i have already committed myself to one character it means i spend a long time finishing msq and if i want to make an alt i have to do this over again or i can spend over 20 euros to skip the story. In wow there are many things that are account unlocked, so if i do them on one character there unlocked on all my characters.
One spec per class is lazy design, let me prove it.
In gw2 your attacks are based on the weapon you choose so you basically can be anything on every class not to mention elite specializations gives you the opportunity to totally change your playstyle while playing a specific class.
In ESO every class has tons of skill tries that allow you to change your playstyle. One awesome thing is that you can explore the world as you see fit. You are not being held by invisible hand and told you must do this now, visit this area etc.
In wow, due to chromie time you can level in any expansion, you are not forced to single expansion until the latest expansion.
When it comes to swtor, at least every class has three specs. One damage feels different from another in same spec. On top of that it has the best pvp since i am pve guy and still love pvp in swtor that saying something since i do not play pvp in other games.
I really do not get why you say having only one spec per class is not lazy design. I remember when demon hunter was released with only 2 specs how many people was pissed. Not to mention that druid has four specs.
I haven't played lotro in long time so i won't talk about this mmo here.
Look i played FFXIV since 2.0. so i know what i am talking about. I was giving this game many chances.
So what is not "mental gymnastics" for you then?
I like many parts of the ffxiv but that doesn't mean I won't criticise it.

When it comes to MMOs, it's VERY important whether or not the community is toxic. Because if the community is toxic, then I'm not going to want to get involved with group activities. And since it's an MMO, I may as well just not play it anymore. A toxic community can absolutely make an MMO terrible. I don't care about the story and gameplay since I'll never see a lot of it due to avoiding the jerks in the community.

There are catch-up mechanics for leveling a new class on the same character in FF14. And you're going to be punished the same way if you're making alts in WoW because you're not progressing the story if you're playing alts instead of finishing out a campaign on a single character first. And guess what? Being able to have multiple classes on the same character is the same as having different specs. If you swap weapons in GW2, it's basically the same as swapping class in FF14. It's not lazy design at all. You're objectively wrong in saying that. The only hand pushing you where to go is your own.

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. I highly doubt you played the game past the first story arc. Everything you've said about it is just not even remotely accurate and you are further proving you're just doing everything you can to say negative things about it even if you're wrong.

[Ghost of Cow]

There are catch-up mechanics for leveling a new class on the same character in FF14. And you're going to be punished the same way if you're making alts in WoW because you're not progressing the story if you're playing alts instead of finishing out a campaign on a single character first. And guess what? Being able to have multiple classes on the same character is the same as having different specs. If you swap weapons in GW2, it's basically the same as swapping class in FF14. It's not lazy design at all. You're objectively wrong in saying that. The only hand pushing you where to go is your own.

That's a horrible comparison, honestly. Especially using GW2, where of course there's no effect of currency caps or anything.

[doodle90]

Community being toxic or not is only relevant when you are playing a game and not when you are choosing a game to play. If the community is not toxic is it a huge incentive to keep playing but what initially hooked you up was the gameplay/story etc.
Multi-class does punish me because if i have already committed myself to one character it means i spend a long time finishing msq and if i want to make an alt i have to do this over again or i can spend over 20 euros to skip the story. In wow there are many things that are account unlocked, so if i do them on one character there unlocked on all my characters.
One spec per class is lazy design, let me prove it.
In gw2 your attacks are based on the weapon you choose so you basically can be anything on every class not to mention elite specializations gives you the opportunity to totally change your playstyle while playing a specific class.
In ESO every class has tons of skill tries that allow you to change your playstyle. One awesome thing is that you can explore the world as you see fit. You are not being held by invisible hand and told you must do this now, visit this area etc.
In wow, due to chromie time you can level in any expansion, you are not forced to single expansion until the latest expansion.
When it comes to swtor, at least every class has three specs. One damage feels different from another in same spec. On top of that it has the best pvp since i am pve guy and still love pvp in swtor that saying something since i do not play pvp in other games.
I really do not get why you say having only one spec per class is not lazy design. I remember when demon hunter was released with only 2 specs how many people was pissed. Not to mention that druid has four specs.
I haven't played lotro in long time so i won't talk about this mmo here.
Look i played FFXIV since 2.0. so i know what i am talking about. I was giving this game many chances.
So what is not "mental gymnastics" for you then?
I like many parts of the ffxiv but that doesn't mean I won't criticise it.

I play FFXI and FFXIV (and all the other mmos you listed) I would say the rigidity in classes is FF14s biggest draw back. Lets take FFXI (14s predecessor) the INSANE amount of build customization you have there compared to 14 is unreal. Each class usually shines in a specific role but a RDM can easily main heal or dps or enf or buff or tank if needed.

Your other drawbacks about alts is completely pointless though, as there is ZERO reason to have an ALT in 14. As your ONE character can be everything and you can even revisit story with that character. The gear is shared for most classes making gearing quicker for alt jobs. Which is far superior to WOW account unlocks. If I could change classes at will in WoW I would never level an alt again. Gearing would be so much easier.

[Xilurm]

I mean it has tons and tons of filler quests that basically destroy the feel of the story, most of quests are not voiced (it is 2023 and still most of the stuff is not voiced despite the fact the game is produced by AAA studio),

I'll tell you the reason I do, because there isn't really a general answer to this. Even though I assume the majority of people really do like the story first and foremost.

The reason it has filler quests is because it's an MMO.

you are forced to play through one expansion to the next (in wow you can access the newest expansion immediately, after reaching a correct level),

And the reason behind that is because the story is the most important aspect. Every time YoshiP has been asked that question he said that each expansion is like a season of a tv series. You'd watch them in order, not jump in a random season and go from there. Also, the expansions of WoW are pretty disconnected from each other, and there's usually different cast of characters most of the time. FFXIV is way more linear, and each expansion's story jumps straight into the next, with the same cast being present since the start. It's like a normal FF game, except in an MMO format and it goes for much longer.

every class has only one spec and etc.

I suppose that could be cool, but at the same time FFXIV has 20 jobs, and they add multiple each expansion, unlike in WoW where they only have 12 with multiple specs and add a class every other expansion (they skipped one expansion with Shadowlands). So I'd say that's around the same amount of work. BTW, FF jobs have longer rotations as well, including the profession jobs.

I could go on and on, so my question stands what is so great about this mmo that people force themselves through the grind that is main story quest aka msq.
I lost count how many time i spent clicking on mouse to go through the long *** conversation during msq,
So i would be thankful for the info,
Cheers

Because a lot of people do not force themselves to do that, they play because of that. The most important part of this game for me is the story, and that's the goal of the developers too, everything else is optional and always has been.

[Grinning Serpent]

I play FFXI and FFXIV (and all the other mmos you listed) I would say the rigidity in classes is FF14s biggest draw back. Lets take FFXI (14s predecessor) the INSANE amount of build customization you have there compared to 14 is unreal. Each class usually shines in a specific role but a RDM can easily main heal or dps or enf or buff or tank if needed.

Your other drawbacks about alts is completely pointless though, as there is ZERO reason to have an ALT in 14. As your ONE character can be everything and you can even revisit story with that character. The gear is shared for most classes making gearing quicker for alt jobs. Which is far superior to WOW account unlocks. If I could change classes at will in WoW I would never level an alt again. Gearing would be so much easier.

I really wish XIV had a talent system like MoP-era WoW. Where you have a few different skills across a few different tiers and they serve to allow you *some* degree of customization of the playstyle. People argue that the "best choices" will be mathed out and so there's usually only a couple choices that are genuinely up to preference, but I don't see anything wrong with that. It's rare that the "best choices" are the best choice for *ALL* content types. I think as long as you can justify each of the abilities or passives in a tier in some type of content, the system is working fine.

I certainly don't think we'd ever see anything like DF's talent trees, although I think they're quite lovely for the most part. People math out the best choices there, but even then there is still often a wide array of possible choices based on what kind of content you're doing or even just playstyle. Storm of Swords/Annihilator is probably weaker in general than a typical Raging Blow Fury build, but unless you're pushing top end content early in the tier, it doesn't really matter that much - you can zug zug all you'd like if that's what makes you happy. Each tree tends to have a fairly even distribution of "core" skills, "preferred" and "optional" skills. Each tree also has its share of "never take" skills, but theoretically that's something you can address with balance patches. It would probably be a lot easier for XIV to achieve that since each class is just the one class, rather than each class kinda-sorta being three in one like in WoW.

I keep thinking back to Blue Mage. Sure, you always have a certain core set of spells you use for pretty much everything, but those last 4-6 spell slots are *highly* variable based on what content you're doing, even down to the specific fight and even specific strats *within* that fight. Combined with not losing ability access for being synced down and is it any wonder that BLU players tend to greatly prefer BLU to normal classes?


Shit, they could do the specialization thing for XIV, too. Although I'm sure it'd be messy, but what if you could pick between Warrior and Berserker? Berserker is melee DPS, Warrior is a tank. Or I guess if you want to discount the probably severe amount of code fuckery, you could just have Marauder be melee DPS and Warrior is tank and players get an ability to swap seamlessly between them (while out of combat/not bound by duty) at will. Same gear is used, too. Tenacity can still function for "tank DPS", since I think it would still be dead last in gemming priority even for a DPS class because the extra mitigation on a DPS wouldn't likely ever be relevant. It would be like a more involved version of DPS stance/Cleric stance, except it'd also change up your toolset and not just your modifiers.

[OokOok]

All the people saying XIV needs more classes/specs/a talent system are the same ones crying every month that Blizzard doesn't know how to balance their game cause they have 16 classes and 40 specs.
Thankfully SE doesn't listen to you, go back to WoW. XIV has amazing class balance and I would take that over specs/talents any day.

[Ghost of Cow]

All the people saying XIV needs more classes/specs/a talent system are the same ones crying every month that Blizzard doesn't know how to balance their game cause they have 16 classes and 40 specs.
Thankfully SE doesn't listen to you, go back to WoW. XIV has amazing class balance and I would take that over specs/talents any day.

I honestly don't know where people get this from. The class balance in the two games is pretty close, both games have periods where one class/spec remains awful for a while, or a specific fight makes certain jobs shine or look bad.

This whole, "XIV is balanced, WoW isn't" thing has ascended to meme status at this point, and it's just silly.

[Shinchi Migi]

I honestly don't know where people get this from. The class balance in the two games is pretty close, both games have periods where one class/spec remains awful for a while, or a specific fight makes certain jobs shine or look bad.

This whole, "XIV is balanced, WoW isn't" thing has ascended to meme status at this point, and it's just silly.

Facts can be hard to digest sometimes. But in my opinion both games have never ever been balanced. Instead of making ALL specs fun to play for everyone, BOTH companies like to cherry pick specs that will be FOTM in their eyes. Neither company knows how to balance classes, and in my opinion never ever will.

[Katchii]

Community being toxic or not is only relevant when you are playing a game and not when you are choosing a game to play. If the community is not toxic is it a huge incentive to keep playing but what initially hooked you up was the gameplay/story etc.

Knowing whether a community is toxic or not prior to playing can and does have an impact on someone's desire to play an MMO.

Multi-class does punish me because if i have already committed myself to one character it means i spend a long time finishing msq and if i want to make an alt i have to do this over again or i can spend over 20 euros to skip the story. In wow there are many things that are account unlocked, so if i do them on one character there unlocked on all my characters.

You don't have to start a completely new character to play a different class in FFXIV. A single character can be every class, there's no NEED for alts. You only start another completely new character if you want to.

One spec per class is lazy design, let me prove it.

No, it's different design. None of your examples prove it's "lazy design" just different from other games.

[threads]

All the people saying XIV needs more classes/specs/a talent system are the same ones crying every month that Blizzard doesn't know how to balance their game cause they have 16 classes and 40 specs.
Thankfully SE doesn't listen to you, go back to WoW. XIV has amazing class balance and I would take that over specs/talents any day.

balance is easy when you make almost every thing play the same lol

[hzjf]

what the classes needs is less buttons

[Shinchi Migi]

what the classes needs is less buttons

In FFXIV, for sure. 13 to 18 button combos are utterly ridiculous.