FFXIV Criticisms

[Bacilio1]

For the record I don't think this is a huge deal

I honestly kind of feel this about both sides of the topic haha.

Yes it absolutely sucks but also having to redo the entire class system's ability distribution across the entire game for every job and then trying to test and see if that causes any issues balance wise from 1-70 or 80 seems rather unlikely outside of a post-expac lull where they're doing big sweeping game adjustments.

But I have seen some people acting as if it's an absolute monumental problem. When in reality it's only a problem for people who are much further in the game than the content itself. Which doesn't make it an invalid complaint, but also doesn't make it the most pressing problem needing addressed. It's one of those QoL things that I think should be on the list of things to do but nothing game-breaking or super necessary to do atm.

[Grinning Serpent]

I like the idea of having a full kit in Sastasha for example, and I see few issues with it on the DPS side (other than that a lot of jobs may lack an AoE button at 15). For the most part, they could scale the damage of a lvl 100 using their full rotation down to just being like 5% or 10% more than a level 15 having a fraction of the rotation.
However, when we get to, say, healers and tanks, and abilities that do more than just raw damage, it gets a bit muddied. A lvl 100 tank has far more mit options than a lvl 15 one. A lvl 100 healer has far more options at their disposal, even if the numbers might be crunched down.

It's a conundrum, and one that could probably only be fixed if they did an ability redistribution on top of this.

Damage and healing is pathetic at low levels though. I think Stone Vigil is the first time where a full pull is actually dangerous, and that's why it has that reputation - but it's also in between healers getting their first big healing button and their next, so it's perfectly placed in that sense.

Like, SCH can just let the fairy do all the healing even in a w2w pull in sastasha because Embrace is nearly a 1/2 HP heal. Potency scaling at low levels is very strange.

[Grinning Serpent]

So we had ex1 and ex2 cleared without healers (ex2 was done 1 T/7 DPS while ex1 was 4 DPS and 4 tanks) and now M4S has also been cleared without healers.

All of these were cleared on-content and with available gear. M4S was cleared without even close to maximum gear possible.

Why the fuck do tanks have so much healing?

[prwraith]

Why the fuck do tanks have so much healing?

*Cries in Dark Knight*

[Raidoser]

Nobody wants to be 100 in level 50 dungeons. People want to keep their full ability kit. Having full ability kit does not mean you could solo the dungeon, and if you could that's a scaling issue on the devs.

For the record I don't think this is a huge deal, but it would be far more interesting that having 3 button dps rotations in low level dungeons and make doing them less of a chore so I don't get you guys being so up in arms about them finding a solution to this with proper scaling which a ton of other MMOs have done.

Except that if the scaling is done correctly doing your full rotation will do the same dps as doing the 3 button dps, so what will happen ? people will complain they hit more button to do the same dps as low level character and they will whine constantly everywhere they can so their DPS is increase because of the most stupid and twisted reasons they can imagine which will never happen because one of the cool thing about ff14 is that it limit your power to force you to do the mechanics.

And there is also the opposite people who enjoy hitting the lowest amount of buttons who will now do subpar DPS in lower level dungeon because of the reason i wrote earlier (Full level 100 rotation DPS = level 35 three buttons rotation DPS) and these people aren't a minority so your lower level dungeon will just become even more of a chores except this time you may time out because you can't finish it.

It seem also you haven't understood yet that the engine of FF14 is the shittiest engine you can imagine in any MMO (one of the reason Yoshida should be respected because it allowed a horrible game to survive) so they're pretty limited in what they can change.

Short sighted people are seriously exhausting to read.

[Tech614]

It seem also you haven't understood yet that the engine of FF14 is the shittiest engine you can imagine in any MMO (one of the reason Yoshida should be respected because it allowed a horrible game to survive) so they're pretty limited in what they can change.

Engine is so shitty that they made a full blown action RPG in it. If the engine was anywhere near as shit as you people like to claim they would have made XVI in Unreal but they didn't.

So surely they can't manage having full rotation at scaled down levels like multiple other MMOs do /s

I love when people who know nothing about game development always talk shit about WoW or XIV's engines because they saw some random reddit comment and believed it.

[prwraith]

I mean, even if FF14 had a shit engine, and I've no idea if it does. It's amazing what they can do with it. Compared to like..literally every other MMO that came out. It's just genuinely great. Movement feels good, combat is responsive, animations look dope, high skill ceiling, low skill floor. What's not to love.

[Ghost of Cow]

And there is also the opposite people who enjoy hitting the lowest amount of buttons who will now do subpar DPS in lower level dungeon because of the reason i wrote earlier (Full level 100 rotation DPS = level 35 three buttons rotation DPS) and these people aren't a minority so your lower level dungeon will just become even more of a chores except this time you may time out because you can't finish it.

"People won't press their buttons" is an absolutely stupid reason to not have the buttons. What, are Expert roulettes failing because people are level 100 and not pressing their buttons?

Also, it's not ARR anymore, no one is timing out on dungeons.

[Zaft]

I mean, even if FF14 had a shit engine, and I've no idea if it does. It's amazing what they can do with it. Compared to like..literally every other MMO that came out. It's just genuinely great. Movement feels good, combat is responsive, animations look dope, high skill ceiling, low skill floor. What's not to love.

It's a messy engine but it runs surprisingly well even on toaster hardware. It even ran on PS3, just not very quickly (we used to have to bar PS3 players from speed runs since their loading would take like a minute).

The biggest issue is that like most MMOs, it's years upon years of "quick fixes" creating a tangled mess of spaghetti so that when they want to make a change, it's sometimes far more complicated than it should be.

[Yarathir]

It's a messy engine but it runs surprisingly well even on toaster hardware. It even ran on PS3, just not very quickly (we used to have to bar PS3 players from speed runs since their loading would take like a minute).

The biggest issue is that like most MMOs, it's years upon years of "quick fixes" creating a tangled mess of spaghetti so that when they want to make a change, it's sometimes far more complicated than it should be.

Pretty much. One day, I wish they just bite the bullet and assign a team or something to work on an isolated build of FFXIV, untangling all the spaghetti and fixing it so that just about every requested feature doesn't result in "ahh... we want to do it but... it's very difficult for our coders to make happen because of the engine limitations..." I don't know how feasible it is, and I understand and appreciate that it isn't easy, but it's going to be a necessity sooner or later, and with every year that passes, new layers of spaghetti just bury the older ones as they try to find ways to circumvent said limitations. Eventually, they'll need to tear off the bandaid. Unless they plan to bury XIV before that point.

But right now, I'm fairly sure it's still one of their most profitable games, especially of the ongoing lot. I would be surprised if they're in a hurry to end it.

[Fasruhdah]

Pretty much. One day, I wish they just bite the bullet and assign a team or something to work on an isolated build of FFXIV, untangling all the spaghetti and fixing it so that just about every requested feature doesn't result in "ahh... we want to do it but... it's very difficult for our coders to make happen because of the engine limitations..." I don't know how feasible it is, and I understand and appreciate that it isn't easy, but it's going to be a necessity sooner or later, and with every year that passes, new layers of spaghetti just bury the older ones as they try to find ways to circumvent said limitations. Eventually, they'll need to tear off the bandaid. Unless they plan to bury XIV before that point.

But right now, I'm fairly sure it's still one of their most profitable games, especially of the ongoing lot. I would be surprised if they're in a hurry to end it.

All code becomes spaghetti code after a while. Companies which have the incentive to fix a problem do so. Square Enix has always been very greedy and profit efficient. Players paid top dollar for their initial launch they were not handing out copies for free. "Spaghetti code" and "story oriented mmo" are just catchphrases by bought-out shills and social media to gaslight naive consumers into purchasing a subpar product. The sad fact is that people are not immune to propaganda.

Anywho; ya boi came here to complain about the lack of horizontal progression and everything being gated behind the gear from the 8 man savage raids. See no reason for those who quit the game to return any time soon.

- - - Updated - - -

enjoy the savings on subscriptions for next year or so

[Arlette]

Anywho; ya boi came here to complain about the lack of horizontal progression and everything being gated behind the gear from the 8 man savage raids. See no reason for those who quit the game to return any time soon.

- - - Updated - - -

enjoy the savings on subscriptions for next year or so

Yes we know every month you show up to talk about why the game is dead and awful and you're not coming back.

[Grinning Serpent]

I do agree that tech debt isn't a viable excuse. Every company, in every type of software industry, deals with tech debt. I've heard it said before that you basically *start* with tech debt by time everything reaches production status, due to the gap between start of the project and the time you're shipping the finalized product.

Yoshida just doesn't like handing out a hard "no." I don't know if that's because he's doubling as PR for Square-Enix, if it's some kind of Japanese cultural thing, or just something he personally does. So his excuses about tech debt are just that - excuses. Instead of just saying "no, we do not plan on doing this at this time", he will talk about tech debt or "maybe we will look into it, I don't know yet."

So any time you hear Yoshida talking about tech debt, just read it as a "no." What he actually means is "no."

[BraveNewWorld]

I mean, even if FF14 had a shit engine, and I've no idea if it does. It's amazing what they can do with it. Compared to like..literally every other MMO that came out. It's just genuinely great. Movement feels good, combat is responsive, animations look dope, high skill ceiling, low skill floor. What's not to love.

Are you seriously praising movement in FFXIV ?

You can't even make precise small movements, you can't even jump on something that's right besides you, you need to go back a certain distance to get move velocity, then jump.

Combat is responsive ? Have you actually played the game ? WoW's netcode from 2005 handles multiplayer better than the hot trash that FF14 has.

[Polgara]

Are you seriously praising movement in FFXIV ?

You can't even make precise small movements, you can't even jump on something that's right besides you, you need to go back a certain distance to get move velocity, then jump.

Combat is responsive ? Have you actually played the game ? WoW's netcode from 2005 handles multiplayer better than the hot trash that FF14 has.

You can, I've had no issues with anything you've complained about. Skill difference honestly.

[WeAreNotSmilesTimes]

Are you seriously praising movement in FFXIV ?

You can't even make precise small movements, you can't even jump on something that's right besides you, you need to go back a certain distance to get move velocity, then jump.

Combat is responsive ? Have you actually played the game ? WoW's netcode from 2005 handles multiplayer better than the hot trash that FF14 has.

Yeah the combat being responsive thing is ... hilarious

[Yarathir]

Are you seriously praising movement in FFXIV ?

You can't even make precise small movements, you can't even jump on something that's right besides you, you need to go back a certain distance to get move velocity, then jump.

Combat is responsive ? Have you actually played the game ? WoW's netcode from 2005 handles multiplayer better than the hot trash that FF14 has.

Do you literally just post here to salt about XIV when someone says something positive about it that chafes you, lol?

[Grinning Serpent]

You can, I've had no issues with anything you've complained about. Skill difference honestly.

I don't think it's possible to jump onto something next to you without moving back for momentum, but maybe like a backstep hop or something?

I don't know how you can defend the delay on actions, though. It's probably the single-most limiting factor for FFXIV from a design standpoint. Like, the current raid design with colorful borders for things and cast times and whatnot could still be done with a WoW-like responsiveness - but you can't have WoW-like things where you need to interrupt a spell with a ~1 sec cast time or whatever because that would be almost impossible to pull off when there's a roughly half second response delay.

I'm curious what their advertised responsiveness improvements for PvP will be. But I *think* they mean adjusting animations/timings so that effects and animations match up better? They specifically cited Primal Rend as an example, how you get stunned and take damage easily a full second before the animation plays. I don't think it's in reference to changing animation locks and such?

[Ereb]

You can, I've had no issues with anything you've complained about. Skill difference honestly.

Skill difference in overcoming shit input lag? You can't be serious in saying FF14's gameplay and movement is fluid or smooth it's a hard negative the game has to constantly overcome

[Polgara]

Skill difference in overcoming shit input lag? You can't be serious in saying FF14's gameplay and movement is fluid or smooth it's a hard negative the game has to constantly overcome

Yes, it plays differently, if you want to play WoW play WoW, I've had no issues and it hasn't bothered me, probably just my innate skills. Sorry I don't think exactly like you? Unfortunately WoW's gameplay loop is tragically shit to me, so a little input lag just doesn't bother me for a much more engaging and fun raiding experience.