FFXIV Criticisms

[Yarathir]

I haven't really had any issues either.

[BraveNewWorld]

Do you literally just post here to salt about XIV when someone says something positive about it that chafes you, lol?

So what if I am ? I enjoyed my time in the game but I expect more from expansions than the garbage we got with Dawntrail. Nowadays even WoW mini-patches have more content than full blown XIV patches. FF players had their time to call "wow bad" during shadowlands, it's now fair game to call their game utter trash now.

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You can, I've had no issues with anything you've complained about. Skill difference honestly.

You literally cannot.

You're sounding like these shills defending how bad their pre-order system still is in this day and age. "You don't understand technology, it takes time to generate pre-order codes for a game like this". Meanwhile the second I paid for DF and TWW pre-orders in WoW I had received my stuff.

[Yarathir]

So what if I am ? I enjoyed my time in the game but I expect more from expansions than the garbage we got with Dawntrail. Nowadays even WoW mini-patches have more content than full blown XIV patches. FF players had their time to call "wow bad" during shadowlands, it's now fair game to call their game utter trash now.

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You literally cannot.

You're sounding like these shills defending how bad their pre-order system still is in this day and age. "You don't understand technology, it takes time to generate pre-order codes for a game like this". Meanwhile the second I paid for DF and TWW pre-orders in WoW I had received my stuff.

Noted. Will keep that in mind from now on. Won't waste my time.

[Polgara]

Noted. Will keep that in mind from now on. Won't waste my time.

I enjoyed the part where I got called a shill because I'd probably defend how two different games handle preorders... like my base edition preorder of DT came with early access, TWW begged me for money for the same thing? Does this make WoW superior too or would pointing that out be shilling?

I never said input lag wasn't a thing, just it's never affected me but I also adapted to how the gameplay is and find it enjoyable (slidecasting exas is always such a fulfilling play). Guess having an opinion differing on a discussion board IS a heinous crime.

[Yarathir]

I enjoyed the part where I got called a shill because I'd probably defend how two different games handle preorders... like my base edition preorder of DT came with early access, TWW begged me for money for the same thing? Does this make WoW superior too or would pointing that out be shilling?

I never said input lag wasn't a thing, just it's never affected me but I also adapted to how the gameplay is and find it enjoyable (slidecasting exas is always such a fulfilling play). Guess having an opinion differing on a discussion board IS a heinous crime.

It's been "on sight" since 2021. There are just certain clichés that are doled out and treated like they're truth and it feels like the memes have taken on a life of their own. It's whatever, though. I've thought that the exodus was a mistake to begin with.

I've not had notable input lag myself, and I do prefer XIV jobs over the suggested alternative by a long shot as well. It is what it is.

[Arlette]

Do you literally just post here to salt about XIV when someone says something positive about it that chafes you, lol?

Yes.

There are about 3-4 people on this specific subforum, which only really has about 10-15ish active people anyway, who do that. I don't know if they're all the same person or the same few who are just obsessed with hating the game rather than playing any of the other thousand currently amazing games.

And its so incredibly bizarre. Every single time there's a new trailer or patch notes, I just know within a day I'll see one of them coming in here saying how everything is bad.

[Yarathir]

Yes.

There are about 3-4 people on this specific subforum, which only really had about 10-15ish active people anyway, who do that. I don't know if they're all the same person or the same few who are just obsessed with hating the game rather than playing any of the other thousand currently amazing games.

And its so incredibly bizarre. Every single time there's a new trailer or patch notes, I just know within a day I'll see one of them coming in here saying how everything is bad.

Speaking of which... based on the site and live letters, I felt 7.1 was pretty anemic, but looking at the patch notes, it actually has a lot of stuff. My one gripe is still that I wish they had put Cosmic Exploration in 7.1, but otherwise, it's got a lot more than I was expecting. And the new Beast Tribe in 7.1 instead of 7.15 (it was in 6.15, 6.25 and 6.35 in Endwalker) was a nice surprise, even if it isn't major. That over a month wait to unlock those was ridiculous.

[Arlette]

I enjoyed the part where I got called a shill because I'd probably defend how two different games handle preorders... like my base edition preorder of DT came with early access, TWW begged me for money for the same thing? Does this make WoW superior too or would pointing that out be shilling?

I too remember this during TWW demanding an extra 20 bucks for early access. And the same disingenuous people pretending it was the same for FF14 when I'm not spending any extra money to get in early. You could have bought Dawntrail in the middle of the early access and still get the early access. For no extra cost.

It's incredible how obvious the difference is.

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Speaking of which... based on the site and live letters, I felt 7.1 was pretty anemic, but looking at the patch notes, it actually has a lot of stuff. My one gripe is still that I wish they had put Cosmic Exploration in 7.1, but otherwise, it's got a lot more than I was expecting. And the new Beast Tribe in 7.1 instead of 7.15 (it was in 6.15, 6.25 and 6.35 in Endwalker) was a nice surprise, even if it isn't major. That over a month wait to unlock those was ridiculous.

I agree, I completely missed when they did their big live letter and even the trailer for it until a day after they happened, which was a first because I always hear about FF14 stuff in my online circles I run in. I think the fact that DW is just an ARR-like set up has a lot of people not expecting too much until toward the end of it so perhaps interest is lower.

Or people are just playing a number of the incredibly long new games that are currently out? I'm still trudging my way through Metaphor so that could have been it. Or the collective worldwide stress of a US election was on everybody's minds or something lol

I'm definitely coming back for 7.1 though. I will admit I'm never really a super big fan of when stories go, "Here's this character that's already dead, let's devote an entire arc of the story about their backstory now that they're gone," so having seemingly a lot of the MSQ in 7.1 be about Zoraal Ja is not super intriguing to me. But I have faith that the writers can convince me to care so I'm not that bummed out about it yet.

[Yarathir]

I too remember this during TWW demanding an extra 20 bucks for early access. And the same disingenuous people pretending it was the same for FF14 when I'm not spending any extra money to get in early. You could have bought Dawntrail in the middle of the early access and still get the early access. For no extra cost.

It's incredible how obvious the difference is.

According to Mr. or Mrs. BraveNewWorld, this is because:

Haven't played GW2 so can't comment on it. But XIV does not have any relevant end-game content and no one cares about its RWF for savage because it's a complete joke. Getting to max level 3 days early barely give anyone any advantage.

I've no idea how this in any way, even if true, extenuates putting on-release access (let's call it what it is, not "early access" but "on-release access") for a game you already double pay for behind a 90 dollar pricetag. If anything, that just makes it worse? But who am I to question the logic.

I agree, I completely missed when they did their big live letter and even the trailer for it until a day after they happened, which was a first because I always hear about FF14 stuff in my online circles I run in. I think the fact that DW is just an ARR-like set up has a lot of people not expecting too much until toward the end of it so perhaps interest is lower.

Or people are just playing a number of the incredibly long new games that are currently out? I'm still trudging my way through Metaphor so that could have been it. Or the collective worldwide stress of a US election was on everybody's minds or something lol

I'm definitely coming back for 7.1 though. I will admit I'm never really a super big fan of when stories go, "Here's this character that's already dead, let's devote an entire arc of the story about their backstory now that they're gone," so having seemingly a lot of the MSQ in 7.1 be about Zoraal Ja is not super intriguing to me. But I have faith that the writers can convince me to care so I'm not that bummed out about it yet.

No idea. I knew about the dates and times already, but I was also bombarded with XIV stuff on YouTube as well, so even if I hadn't been eyeing it, I would've probably known regardless. But I looked at the patch previews and I thought it was going to be the kind of patch people would skip and pick up in 7.2 instead, and it still might be, but I just felt like mentioning that I was surprised by the amount of stuff in the notes. A lot of it QoL and more general rather than "HARK, NEW INGAME CONTENT FEATURE" of course, but regardless.

Story-wise, I'm not expecting too much from 7.1 yet since it was deep in development while 7.0 was yet to release. It's probably an extension of 7.0, and any chance for the game's story to adjust based on feedback will probably be in 7.2 at the earliest. But honestly, even when the MSQ narratives aren't stellar, there are plenty of other avenues. Beast tribe quests tend to be nice, there's a Pandaemonium wrap-up quest that I'm keen to see, and where the MSQ kind of let me down in many ways in 7.0 (not all), I really enjoyed Arcadion. Now, there is no new chapter to that in 7.1, but I felt like bringing it up.

I didn't hate Zoraal Ja (thought he was more compelling than Zenos, at least), and I won't mind getting to learn more about him, but it's also not like I'm jumping for joy about it either. We'll see how it turns out. At least the idea of the people of S9 having to contend with the notion of permanent death can be interesting enough.

[Grinning Serpent]

Speaking of which... based on the site and live letters, I felt 7.1 was pretty anemic, but looking at the patch notes, it actually has a lot of stuff. My one gripe is still that I wish they had put Cosmic Exploration in 7.1, but otherwise, it's got a lot more than I was expecting. And the new Beast Tribe in 7.1 instead of 7.15 (it was in 6.15, 6.25 and 6.35 in Endwalker) was a nice surprise, even if it isn't major. That over a month wait to unlock those was ridiculous.

The PvP changes are really good, in my estimation, but are going to be way too little, way too late. And it still won't address the lack of rewards for ranked, or the lack of action against cheaters in ranked (the former is probably related to the latter.) And they still, *STILL* won't let you play with your buddies, in a fucking MMO! Fine, no playing with buddies in ranked to maintain sanctity of our holy MMRs, but not having the option for at least duos in casual is fucking insane. I can't overstate how hard PvP flopped for a lot of people I played with, because they couldn't play with their friends.

It's very normal for people nervous or curious about new content types (like ex, savage, ult, etc) to try it with their friends, especially if those friends are experienced in it. It's just how MMOs work, you know? But while it's okay to have friends teach you the ropes in PvE, it's verboten in PvP. Fucking dumb shit.

I know they won't do it, because it would piss off the like 200 players who actually give a shit about such things, but removing ranked is the best thing they could do for PvP at this point. Adjust how matchmaking works - allow people to queue with buddies, prioritize matching like with like (so a duo would be paired with another duo and a random vs a pair of duos and a random or a trio and two randoms, etc), maybe implement a soft hidden MMR system to try and balance games.) Add rotating achievements to replace the top X things and just make it based on games won - 50, 100, 200, 500, etc.

It's crazy, to me, that they clearly have put a lot of time and effort and care into the PvP revamp and yet they'll let it wither on the vine out of... idk, ego? I don't understand why they seem resistant to making changes that need to be made for the health of the game.

[Skepticalpeepo]

I can say without hesitation that FFXIV has the worst combat I have encountered in any mmorpg ever. I have played twenty or so. I have not played the runescapes or small worlds... so I cannot speak for those games. Now the last mmorpg square enix released had a much slower combat yet it felt rewarding. Why? because it was not a 2 minute looped rotation. The combat system in FFXIV is an actual rotation unlike most other mmo where you are given quite bit of freedom to have your way. It has to do with the fact that the basic abilities run on a combo system. Then the special abilities run on another combo system. And then the buffs all line up. Then the two looped rotations lead to a third rotation. So what you have is a non stop sequence that either runs for 1 min 30 seconds or 2 minutes. Anything that dies too quickly feels weird and awkward to go up against. You don't get your good stuff outside of long fights, and that's what the combat system seems to have been designed for.

Making things worse is that the outer world has mobs who are HP sponges with zero personalities. All they do is stand still and do some telegraphs. Almost every mmorpg that exists right now the mobs tend to be somewhat interesting. So the grinds in FFXIV in the outer worlds are true grinds because you hate every second of having to do them. In other mmorpgs I have just went on taking on mobs I didn't need to; the combat felt strong and bad ass.

To reply to another post. Blizzard's venture into charging extra for a headstart and now a bruto mount with very high utility is borderline pay2win territory. I think they crossed it a while back because it is much easier to get consumables with real life money than it is to have to farm for them. If Blizzard keeps that up I won't go back to their game. Though the war within was an amazing expansion so I have to give kudos to them. Blizzard's preference for high paying customers is not going to make me give a pass to Square Enix though, nobody said I must have that one mmorpg I play no matter how much I hate playing it.

[Civciv]

Bruto mount is not pay2win lmao. Is it priced hideously? Absolutely yeah. I will keep going to my local AH npcs which takes me like a minute or two.

[Grinning Serpent]

I can say without hesitation that FFXIV has the worst combat I have encountered in any mmorpg ever. I have played twenty or so. I have not played the runescapes or small worlds... so I cannot speak for those games. Now the last mmorpg square enix released had a much slower combat yet it felt rewarding. Why? because it was not a 2 minute looped rotation. The combat system in FFXIV is an actual rotation unlike most other mmo where you are given quite bit of freedom to have your way. It has to do with the fact that the basic abilities run on a combo system. Then the special abilities run on another combo system. And then the buffs all line up. Then the two looped rotations lead to a third rotation. So what you have is a non stop sequence that either runs for 1 min 30 seconds or 2 minutes. Anything that dies too quickly feels weird and awkward to go up against. You don't get your good stuff outside of long fights, and that's what the combat system seems to have been designed for.

FFXIV has a severe issue with being designed and tuned around savage/ultimate, and it fucks with all other gameplay forms. I chalk it up to them having a piss poor 4-5 person class design team... that also do other things. It's amazing how badly managed the FFXIV project is.

But yeah, stuff like rigid combos and often uninspired builder-spender class designs severely limit design options and playstyle options. Even if, for example, a Warrior in WoW (regardless of version) has a general rotation, it's subject to things like Rage being from white swings and being somewhat variable (moreso in older versions than newer ones), and as WoW went on over the years they added more procs and such to give players some things to juggle and make decisions on. Meanwhile, classes in FFXIV are so rigid that about 80% of them could *literally* be played with a single castsequence macro, not accounting for movement and such.

I also have a big agree on overworld mobs being fucking meaningless. Been playing a little Cata Classic here and there past couple of weeks and, since I'd been playing SoD previously, it's interesting to see the little ways they spiced up overworld monsters. Cougars in Mulgore gained a little attack where they sprint and bounce around you a few times, many monsters gained little buffs or debuffs, and so on. And even going back to vanilla, many monsters might try to flee and find help or yell for help, and in cata I saw both raptors and lions chasing and killing zhevra mobs out in Barrens.

I can think of exactly *one* example of something like that happening in FFXIV with the leeches in Tempest, but the leeches and the mobs that eat them spawn far enough apart that they'll never perform this interaction unless you bring a leech close to them - but I love little things like this and they're a great way to make the mobs feel at least slightly more distinct. As it is, every single overworld mob in FFXIV is essentially interchangeable with every other mob. They're just a sack of hitpoints.

[Ghost of Cow]

FFXIV has a severe issue with being designed and tuned around savage/ultimate, and it fucks with all other gameplay forms. I chalk it up to them having a piss poor 4-5 person class design team... that also do other things. It's amazing how badly managed the FFXIV project is.

But yeah, stuff like rigid combos and often uninspired builder-spender class designs severely limit design options and playstyle options. Even if, for example, a Warrior in WoW (regardless of version) has a general rotation, it's subject to things like Rage being from white swings and being somewhat variable (moreso in older versions than newer ones), and as WoW went on over the years they added more procs and such to give players some things to juggle and make decisions on. Meanwhile, classes in FFXIV are so rigid that about 80% of them could *literally* be played with a single castsequence macro, not accounting for movement and such.

I also have a big agree on overworld mobs being fucking meaningless. Been playing a little Cata Classic here and there past couple of weeks and, since I'd been playing SoD previously, it's interesting to see the little ways they spiced up overworld monsters. Cougars in Mulgore gained a little attack where they sprint and bounce around you a few times, many monsters gained little buffs or debuffs, and so on. And even going back to vanilla, many monsters might try to flee and find help or yell for help, and in cata I saw both raptors and lions chasing and killing zhevra mobs out in Barrens.

I can think of exactly *one* example of something like that happening in FFXIV with the leeches in Tempest, but the leeches and the mobs that eat them spawn far enough apart that they'll never perform this interaction unless you bring a leech close to them - but I love little things like this and they're a great way to make the mobs feel at least slightly more distinct. As it is, every single overworld mob in FFXIV is essentially interchangeable with every other mob. They're just a sack of hitpoints.

What's weird is that MMOs have gone progressively backwards in this regard...EverQuest had a shitload of overworld mob interactions, aggro types, and so on, for example. Not a whole lot of different attack patterns, but definitely different behaviors on aggro, running, social interaction, faction, etc.

The increasing focus on instances and single boss battles has pulled development away from those ideas, I suppose. The tradeoff is overall positive I suppose, but I still miss that sort of little stuff.

[Tomana]

Meanwhile, Square Enix just got a nice bonk on Nikkei today because their 1H digital sales are down almost 20% year-to-year. It's almost as if they are releasing poop and not investing into the game that brings them the most money -_-

[Grinning Serpent]

Meanwhile, Square Enix just got a nice bonk on Nikkei today because their 1H digital sales are down almost 20% year-to-year. It's almost as if they are releasing poop and not investing into the game that brings them the most money -_-

Yeah it's pretty clear that FFXIV has been bankrolling Square-Enix for a while now. It's not been their only revenue stream and I don't think it's even their biggest but it is certainly their most reliable.

But Dawntrail has put that into jeopardy. I don't think the playerbase will tolerate 8.0 having a combination of complacent content design/pacing *and* a lackluster story again. It could be their own Shadowlands if they aren't careful.

I know Yoshida's talked about the difficulty in finding staff, but with layoffs everywhere right now, it can't be *that* hard, can it? I guess the requirements to speak Japanese and live in Japan for certain positions poses a lot of difficulty, though. I'm sure you could add "it's hard to find staff for the amount of money we're willing to pay" in there. I don't get the impression that Yoshida underpays his staff, but Square-Enix *is* a giant corporation and those exist to wring every yen out of consumers and hoard it for execs and shareholders.

[Tomana]

I know Yoshida's talked about the difficulty in finding staff, but with layoffs everywhere right now, it can't be *that* hard, can it?

It gets even better (read: worse). For example, the whole FFXVI team was dispatched on other projects, and none or almost none were put back on FFXIV.
Why? Because DA POOPOO must flow! Must keep releasing dead on arrival titles and not work on FFXIV.

That said. It is clearly their graphics artists are fixing a lot of stuff, but clearly, they are lacking people to fix the game itself and all the old systems

[Segus1992]

Yes, it plays differently, if you want to play WoW play WoW, I've had no issues and it hasn't bothered me, probably just my innate skills. Sorry I don't think exactly like you? Unfortunately WoW's gameplay loop is tragically shit to me, so a little input lag just doesn't bother me for a much more engaging and fun raiding experience.

I mean you can love the game for what it is, and there's definitely a lot to love, but the unresponsive movement and combat is one of the biggest problems the game has. Calling it a skill issue goes beyond disingenuous and actually borders on delusional.

WoW has a truckload of problems of its own, probably more of them, but movement and combat responsiveness is not among them.

[Polgara]

I mean you can love the game for what it is, and there's definitely a lot to love, but the unresponsive movement and combat is one of the biggest problems the game has. Calling it a skill issue goes beyond disingenuous and actually borders on delusional.

WoW has a truckload of problems of its own, probably more of them, but movement and combat responsiveness is not among them.

nvm, honestly being called delusional for a difference of how a game plays and interacts with (that I never said it didn't have, just that I have had no issues with) is just not worth interacting with.

[Segus1992]

nvm, honestly being called delusional for a difference of how a game plays and interacts with (that I never said it didn't have, just that I have had no issues with) is just not worth interacting with.

You can, I've had no issues with anything you've complained about. Skill difference honestly.

Yeah ok /10