Has wow outgrown a player economy?

[Final Verdict]

the token "economy" has sustained WoW since WoD. it not just offered a more diversified spectrum of exchange, but also higher revenue on player engagement for Blizzard (sub via token is double price, while selling token negates 3. party RMT).

in consequence economy professionalized to further abundance, even outside the AH, as trade isnt to be reduced to commodities, but every aspect of social exchange.

it also has monetarized the player base further, where before rewards where social, now time equates to tokens - whats ur gph? it became obvious with BFAs boost enterprises, reaping billions out of casuals and nurtured an already hostile attitude of elitism amongst the player base. which eclipsed in SL S1, when scarcity, slower progression pacing etc. became the elitists paradise WFRs and boosters ever dreamt of and segregated the "community" into providers and consumers (casuls). those raids werent any longer designed for a diverse spectrum of individuals, but a specific niche of rare (and in RL mostly useless) competence (, who could afford the time-investment, which the majority of parents just couldnt) - Blizzard willfully composed a system to reap casuls with slow progression pacing (ilvl endgame progression and equates to raid/pvp/m+ progression).

tokens finally became the primary design paradigm in SL, it feels like SL S1 (stopped right after KSM+CE) was designed to increase spending behavior by "artificial" barriers for time-skips (3pcs/boss 20man S1!) - WoW became a mobile game (by adding an official P2W with real currency layer).

i still havent concluded my analysis on the changes since S1, but the trend still qualifies token as WoWs supreme design directive.

/edit: btw as industry tycoon i havent paid anything since WoD.

[Celement]

Remove the economy from a multi-player game and you make it much less of a multi-player game. That should be obvious. Given the rather large and hostile reception to the elements of solo play already in WoW—not making a judgement about them, just the reaction—it's really curious to see anyone stumble into the idea of removing one of the foundational elements of RPG multi-player games which inevitably would make it more solitary to play than it already is.

I can't really see how. It's been close to a decade since I've opened a trade window barring some raid mat while in raid. Its perhaps the illusion of a multiplayer game if I'm being honest. Most of the ah is stocked by bots it could very well be auto filled.

- - - Updated - - -

Lets go a step further and say that WoW has outgrown having more than one player in game at once. A single player game would eliminate the unfairness of what can happen when a player is making a choice that could affect another player. The only problem is that WoW would not even be in the top 100 single player games and hardly anybody would buy it.

Maybe..., the developers are too lazy/untalented/stupid to make these parts of the game fun to play...

I think the difference is one is gameplay the other is a spread sheet. The economy is parasitic to other game play it doesn't add to it.

Out of every consumable if you removed them all only potions would have any effect on game play and they only have a minor binary one at that.

The defense for it seems to be it's always been there rather then any practical gameplay reason.

[MoanaLisa]

I can't really see how. It's been close to a decade since I've opened a trade window barring some raid mat while in raid. Its perhaps the illusion of a multiplayer game if I'm being honest. Most of the ah is stocked by bots it could very well be auto filled.

Personal experiences differ. I don't play with strangers (ever) so in fact when we do group content there is often some trading that happens. Gear, mats, gold, whatever. Sure, it could all be done through the mail but it's much more convenient to trade things without going somewhere else to do a pickup. I don't think there's anything illusory about it. Economies are simple enough: Someone has something to trade or sell. Someone else wants something to trade or buy. Take that away and you've got another step toward a single-player game.

It's not my fault or problem (any longer) that Blizzard keeps doubling down on strangers playing with other strangers which only serves to eventually drive people toward solitary play. That, in a nutshell, is the elephant in the game. It's not social, it's frequently unpleasant. Put people in a better social situation there might be more impetus to share, trade, barter, etc. That may end up being the selling point of DF's profession system. We'll have to see how it goes. It likely fails as long as the social fabric of the game depends on total strangers who will likely never see one another again being nice.

[aceperson]

the only way wow could outgrow a player economy is to make the economy entirely pointless. as long as gold exists and items can be traded, there will always be an economy. even if you take away gold, players will just start bartering like the diablo 2 community did when gold was made essentially worthless.

[Celement]

Personal experiences differ. I don't play with strangers (ever) so in fact when we do group content there is often some trading that happens. Gear, mats, gold, whatever. Sure, it could all be done through the mail but it's much more convenient to trade things without going somewhere else to do a pickup. I don't think there's anything illusory about it. Economies are simple enough: Someone has something to trade or sell. Someone else wants something to trade or buy. Take that away and you've got another step toward a single-player game.

It's not my fault or problem (any longer) that Blizzard keeps doubling down on strangers playing with other strangers which only serves to eventually drive people toward solitary play. That, in a nutshell, is the elephant in the game. It's not social, it's frequently unpleasant. Put people in a better social situation there might be more impetus to share, trade, barter, etc. That may end up being the selling point of DF's profession system. We'll have to see how it goes. It likely fails as long as the social fabric of the game depends on total strangers who will likely never see one another again being nice.

I mean strangers work fine in curated environments. Plus 20 and higher generally have rather plesent runs and if a key gets blown people either reset or just move on.

I think a lot of the pug culture could be fixed with removing the weekly chest. That do X for bis really dangles a carrot in front of peoples noses and adds pressure I don't think needs to exist in low keys.

Back on topic... how would you feel of a vanity over consumable trade system? I can't really see power being sold often as the dragon flight system has the same issue as boe loot from bosses. The people doing the content are rarely the buyers. It's why I think dragon flights crafting revamp will have more mythic players selling their bop items for skill ups then crafters making gold crafting.

[MoanaLisa]

I think a lot of the pug culture could be fixed with removing the weekly chest. That do X for bis really dangles a carrot in front of peoples noses and adds pressure I don't think needs to exist in low keys.

The pug culture was terrible prior to there ever being a weekly chest. My God....are you new or something? Was all that noise about Gear Score and how people were being assholes about GS requirements to be in their groups just my imagination?

A vanity economy is like anything else: buyers, sellers, traders, barter. With respect though I'm fine with BOP stuff being itemized to maximize its effectiveness based on where it was obtained. Raid gear for raids, M+ gear that might compromise a portion of affixes for M+, PVP for PVP and world gear for everything else. Beef up the equipment manager to make it simpler to create and maintain multiple sets so switching is easy based on what you are doing.

[Rockstaar]

I can't see it happening. Some people use the AH as a mini game and enjoy it. It's not something that ever needs updating and is one of the few things to spend gold on. If they remove it they may as well remove currency and have only repair vendors that repair for free. It would stop gold selling and boosting though I guess...

[Celement]

The pug culture was terrible prior to there ever being a weekly chest. My God....are you new or something? Was all that noise about Gear Score and how people were being assholes about GS requirements to be in their groups just my imagination?

A vanity economy is like anything else: buyers, sellers, traders, barter. With respect though I'm fine with BOP stuff being itemized to maximize its effectiveness based on where it was obtained. Raid gear for raids, M+ gear that might compromise a portion of affixes for M+, PVP for PVP and world gear for everything else. Beef up the equipment manager to make it simpler to create and maintain multiple sets so switching is easy based on what you are doing.

I've been playing at the ce level for... 13 years now give or take. It is quite possible that I simply dont see the pugs most people do.

I just level my own key. With an io of 1800 I've been knocking out 20s ( I don't have every dungeon timed yet)

Pugging is a combination of player skill and social skill. That said even with 20s time I doubt anyone would take my toon into their 15 key.