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  1. #1
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Is it time to remove Normal/Heroic dungeons? They are uselesss since M+

    Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
    So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

    Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.
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  2. #2
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
    So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

    Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.
    How about... no?

    Having normal dungeons is a good leveling method, a good storytelling method, and a good development point for characters, and heroic is just a little better reward but there are still people relying on dungeons because they aren't going to be raiders. As well, raids are bad media for telling small stories. You don't make a massive raid because some Undead is disgruntled.

    The only thing I could see being removed is on the top end of raid difficulty.
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  3. #3
    no they are not useless and no it's not time to delete anything

  4. #4
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    How about... no?

    Having normal dungeons is a good leveling method, a good storytelling method, and a good development point for characters, and heroic is just a little better reward but there are still people relying on dungeons because they aren't going to be raiders. As well, raids are bad media for telling small stories. You don't make a massive raid because some Undead is disgruntled.

    The only thing I could see being removed is on the top end of raid difficulty.
    How are NM dungeons any value to the current state of the game? They are straight up ignored once u ding max level same with Heroic.
    The dungeon loot is legit ashamely bad low. Current NM gives ilvl 236 items, which is so low. (And chances of u getting 1 item in a run is also small)

    Dungeon story telling is good indeed, but not with Normal/Heroic anymore.

    What is the point of having so much different difficulties? Atleast adjust the ones u want to keep and make them into 1.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    How are NM dungeons any value to the current state of the game? They are straight up ignored once u ding max level same with Heroic.
    The dungeon loot is legit ashamely bad low. Current NM gives ilvl 236 items, which is so low. (And chances of u getting 1 item in a run is also small)

    Dungeon story telling is good indeed, but not with Normal/Heroic anymore.

    What is the point of having so much different difficulties? Atleast adjust the ones u want to keep and make them into 1.
    Normal = levelling dungeons. As for heroic they’re good at the start of the expansion. They’re also good for doing the weekly dungeon quests if you can’t be bothered doing mythic
    Last edited by MrLachyG; 2022-09-04 at 04:35 PM.

  6. #6
    Normal is fine, for leveling.

    Heroic is useless, yes. Axe it.

    I would argue Mythic 0 is also pointless.

    Normal for leveling and Mythic + for endgame is all that is required.

    The key you can get from a Mythic 0 an npc in the capital city might as well give you instead.

  7. #7
    They’re fun for people to do and a good way to learn the dungeons in a low-stress environment. Part of the problem with season 4 is a lot of the dungeons are only available via M+ and they’re difficult to learn if you haven’t done them previously.
    Also it brings the dungeons to a wider audience, not everyone does M+. Why would you think they do?

  8. #8
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    How are NM dungeons any value to the current state of the game? They are straight up ignored once u ding max level same with Heroic.
    The dungeon loot is legit ashamely bad low. Current NM gives ilvl 236 items, which is so low. (And chances of u getting 1 item in a run is also small)

    Dungeon story telling is good indeed, but not with Normal/Heroic anymore.

    What is the point of having so much different difficulties? Atleast adjust the ones u want to keep and make them into 1.
    Normal dungeons are for leveling, to give another option for the people leveling to get equipment, as well as telling a story for said zone/questline. Come on already, even you should know that part in playing World of Warcraft. Making them Heroic dungeons, then it isn't a leveling dungeon, and it wouldn't tell the story during the actual questline as they are meant for?

    Normal dungeons are not meant for the gear race either, and shouldn't be, their main job is to take people on the journey, and give them a little something for it.

    You are talking about removing options from people. Removing options that shouldn't even bother you, what item levels dropped shouldn't matter either, it's a normal dungeon. Heroic dungeons are there as intro-level gear for raiding.

    What benefits would there be for removing one, or both, as you said, other than ruining options for story completion, or even development? And I am almost 100% sure that dungeons are not ignored by 99% of the player base, almost close to believing there's more traffic for normal/heroic dungeons than there is for Mythic raiding or even Mythic+.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Normal is fine, for leveling.

    Heroic is useless, yes. Axe it.

    I would argue Mythic 0 is also pointless.

    Normal for leveling and Mythic + for endgame is all that is required.

    The key you can get from a Mythic 0 an npc in the capital city might as well give you instead.
    So, you would force people into the IO system if they want entry-level gear for raiding?
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post

    So, you would force people into the IO system if they want entry-level gear for raiding?
    I mean I doubt that there are rating requirements for doing +2 keys.

    If there are any, then people have lost their minds.

  10. #10
    Maybe a name change to "story" rather than normal. Heroic turns into normal. They are still a way to get catch up gear. They do have a use. The only thing that could be removed is normal. But, then you wouldn't have leveling dungeons, so no.

    Maybe what needs to go is the called "mythic0". They work in a completely different way from the other dungeons. They can buff ilvl of heroic drops to compensate.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2022-09-04 at 04:53 PM.

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    No. /10char

    - - - Updated - - -



    Normal = levelling dungeons. As for heroic they’re good at the start of the expansion. They’re also good for doing the weekly dungeon quests if you can’t be bothered doing mythic
    So heroic is only good at the start of the expansion which usually is like for 2 weeks. then the current M+ system takes over.
    Sorry but that is a weak reason to keep it in-game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post

    What benefits would there be for removing one, or both, as you said, other than ruining options for story completion, or even development? And I am almost 100% sure that dungeons are not ignored by 99% of the player base, almost close to believing there's more traffic for normal/heroic dungeons than there is for Mythic raiding or even Mythic+.
    What are the benefit of having options that will give you a 1 hour queue ? Sorry but the amount of nonsense this game has made over the years is the reason why we have queue times beyond we ever seen.

    It is time to go back to an era where most people can do the same stuff instead of spreading everything out for every little reason people can find.
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  12. #12
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    I mean I doubt that there are rating requirements for doing +2 keys.

    If there are any, then people have lost their minds.
    Currently, in S4, there are a few groups with requirements for 3+ and up. But people shouldn't be pushed into Mythic+ to hunt for keys to get to the level they need when we already have a simple system with the Heroics.
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  13. #13
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lochton View Post
    Currently, in S4, there are a few groups with requirements for 3+ and up. But people shouldn't be pushed into Mythic+ to hunt for keys to get to the level they need when we already have a simple system with the Heroics.
    Heroics reward is too low to be actually rewarding, that is the case with alot of current content in WoW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
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  14. #14
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    What are the benefit of having options that will give you a 1 hour queue ? Sorry but the amount of nonsense this game has made over the years is the reason why we have queue times beyond we ever seen.
    Don't play something that is overplayed. DPS will always have long queues because DPS is DPS, they don't fulfill any other role. I wait a maximum of 5 minutes when I queue as a healer. You will have a wait time for any queued content, does that mean we need to remove LFR because there's a queue? Maybe a few battlegrounds?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    It is time to go back to an era where most people can do the same stuff instead of spreading everything out for every little reason people can find.
    We have that time now? Everyone can do the same stuff. We literally do the same zones, and we aren't much out? And people are climbing the system because once max level, they are going heroic (or even normal if gear is not good enough) to get better gear, and so on, and so forth.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  15. #15
    This is the dumbest thread I've read this week. Congrats OP.

    Another M+ user, who sees the game only through their lens, instead of the player base as a whole.

    I guarantee the overwhelmingly large majority of the dungeons ran are normal/heroic, because that's all that is accessible from the dungeon finder. Source: Common sense.

    Also, OP must have missed Cata and how the community as a whole reacts to tougher dungeons.

  16. #16
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Heroics reward is too low to be actually rewarding, that is the case with alot of current content in WoW.
    Are you meaning for S4? OF COURSE, IT IS, like every expansion at the end of content, in the start, it is fine and in the end, there's more work to do, and with recent releases, there is catch up gear.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Normal is fine, for leveling.

    Heroic is useless, yes. Axe it.

    I would argue Mythic 0 is also pointless.

    Normal for leveling and Mythic + for endgame is all that is required.

    The key you can get from a Mythic 0 an npc in the capital city might as well give you instead.
    I would agree with this position. Normals make a little sense for leveling and learning, but Heroic and M0 are utterly useless. Hell, there's very little point in LFR anymore, as well. Blizzard has done their damnedest to make queued content as uninteresting and unrewarding as possible and has successfully driven off the portion of the player base that enjoyed that content so there really doesn't seem much need to keep it in the game soaking up even the tiniest amount of development resources that could be going to the things that Blizzard and the remaining players actually care about.

    I'm honestly not even sure why they keep patch content zones in the game. Within less than a month these zones become barren because there's so little of interest in them, even for the players that enjoy world content. Which, of course, is assuming that these zones are even enjoyable to those players. I know they no longer were for me, personally.

  18. #18
    Not a very good idea. However, something should be done about dungeons.

    1 - Make all dungeons leveling dungeons

    Why the hell are we only getting half the dungeons for leveling experience? It makes no sense at all. Make all dungeons at normal difficulty part of the leveling experience.

    2- Merge heroic with m0 and make it queueable.

    M0 is laughably easy and the only reason more people are not participating is because you cannot queue for it.

    So i guess we are not too far off. Keep normal dungeons and expand them for leveling. M0 should become Heroic. And keep m+ as it is.

    Most likely tho, blizz wont do jack shit about dungeons anytime soon. They still have raids as their top priority for group content. Sadly..

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
    So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

    Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.
    I think normal dungeons are still fine for leveling, but there really is no place for heroic anymore tbh

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.
    Honestly, I would be fine with this.

    I would like to see dungeons be a challenge again...and not a challenge of beating a timer. How about a thoughtful approach?

    For this to work, Blizz would need to go back to its deep past and...wait for it...actually provide content! They could create 16 dungeons for BC and Wrath over a decade ago. The tools must be substantially more streamlined now than back then...they should be able to create 20+ dungeons for each expansion now.

    Of course, the reason this won't happen isn't because it shouldn't happen...it's because it costs *much* less for Blizz to dribble out 8 dungeons and put a slider on it. And you have a host of fanbois who think the abuse they are getting for the past 4 or 5 expansions is paradise somehow.

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