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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by zhero View Post
    dungeons should never have been considered endgame to begin with. they should have stayed as progression to get to endgame.
    and here we go, most foolish take today, "less endgame content is better bcs i dont like part of it"
    you know you can just... not do it? you can completely ignore M+ especialy now since vault works with raid/pvp too, and people who like m9 can do that, seems like a win win...

  2. #82
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevokcz View Post
    people run normal dungeons on max level?
    I run about.... 28 normal dungeons and 35 heroic dungeons pr. week as I assist people in going through the content (for free) by queueing up and talking, meeting people, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    Cata proved people don't want harder dungeons. We lost half our guild because people were unable to do dungeons for vp. Most people who complain about timer are people who have awareness issues, can't do mechanics and would downright not be able to do anything hard either way. For these you have normal and hc. For the rest you have M+.
    I kinda loved the hard Cata dungeons... except for Grim Batol, that place can go to hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by InsightTimer37 View Post
    They should just make the XP/gold reward a bit less than the questing rewards on normal, and scrap heroic difficulty. There is no need for heroic. Have normal and mythic - that is all that's needed.
    But heroic is intro-level for raiding? wouldn't it just be scrap mythic+0 instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Lol do you even believe what you are saying? What is average queue time of NM dungeons? 30 minutes?
    Naw, he's got a point. I'm almost certain more normal/HC dungeons are run than Mythic+ in total.

    Average queue time for me as DPS 15-20 minutes.
    Average queue time for me as Healer 5 minutes.
    Average queue time for me as Tank 1-3 minutes.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  3. #83
    I suppose heroic is useless. Never ran it on new characters. Normal is good for leveling, m0 for initial gearing (it can be renamed to heroics), m+ for progressing.

  4. #84
    Personally I want mythic + gone for good. If it has to stay let it just be a epeen mode only with no rewards.

    Make normal as hard as vanilla dungeons and heroic a little harder than cataclysm heroics and call it a day. You can scale the difficulty throughout the expansion as gear progresses, but really what I want is a lot more dungeons each patch instead of constant rehashing same dungeons for 2 years.

    You can even release less dungeons at expansion release and split them over the whole 2 year cycle.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Lol do you even believe what you are saying? What is average queue time of NM dungeons? 30 minutes?
    I fail to understand how that's relevant to the conversation when normal/heroic and mythic don't fulfill the same goal ingame, nor catter to the same players.

    Also something like 2 minutes.
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  6. #86
    Heroic is a remnant of a system where scaling wasn't implemented yet. It could be removed and the item level gap between normal dungeons and m0/normal raids reduced. That would probably be a small improvement to the game.
    https://huntercalculator.firebaseapp.com/ classic hunter damage calculator

  7. #87
    The Undying Lochton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogfaroth View Post
    Heroic is a remnant of a system where scaling wasn't implemented yet. It could be removed and the item level gap between normal dungeons and m0/normal raids reduced. That would probably be a small improvement to the game.
    But its age and existence, couldn't M0 just be removed?

    I mean, the OP is the same person who complains about splitting the player base, yet seemingly supports the multiple tiers of the Mythic+ system which splits too.
    Last edited by Lochton; 2022-09-05 at 12:26 PM.
    FOMO: "Fear Of Missing Out", also commonly known as people with a mental issue of managing time and activities, many expecting others to fit into their schedule so they don't miss out on things to come. If FOMO becomes a problem for you, do seek help, it can be a very unhealthy lifestyle..

  8. #88
    Normal should be used for telling a story and should be doable with NPC's. HC/M0 could likely be combined IF M0 was queueable. If they refuse to allow an auto-queue then you need to keep HC. In my perfect world, M+ would die and just have normal/HC, but I get that won't happen, and a large percent of the player base won't agree, so it is what it is. When I was raiding, it was a pain in the ass as a tank always getting asked to do M+ runs cause it's my least favorite content in the game.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
    So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

    Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.
    actually alot of ppl in these forums want them still cus they suck and afraid to do m0

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    Normal should be used for telling a story and should be doable with NPC's. HC/M0 could likely be combined IF M0 was queueable. If they refuse to allow an auto-queue then you need to keep HC. In my perfect world, M+ would die and just have normal/HC, but I get that won't happen, and a large percent of the player base won't agree, so it is what it is. When I was raiding, it was a pain in the ass as a tank always getting asked to do M+ runs cause it's my least favorite content in the game.
    > it was a pain in the ass as a tank always getting asked to do M+ runs cause it's my least favorite content in the game.

    Nobody forced you to do so. Play the content you want and learn to say no.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by talmir View Post
    > it was a pain in the ass as a tank always getting asked to do M+ runs cause it's my least favorite content in the game.

    Nobody forced you to do so. Play the content you want and learn to say no.
    I did ... and eventually left the guild cause they found a tank that enjoyed M+ and then pulled that person into raids. again is what it is.
    Member: Dragon Flight Alpha Club, Member since 7/20/22

  12. #92
    I don't feel strongly about removing heroic, but essentially it is the only thing that could be removed without actually taking anything away from the game. The fact you have to grind normal before you queue for heroic, which by the time you have the normal dungeons loot, feels like doing exactly the same all over again, is not something I'd miss.
    https://huntercalculator.firebaseapp.com/ classic hunter damage calculator

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Normal is fine, for leveling.

    Heroic is useless, yes. Axe it.

    I would argue Mythic 0 is also pointless.

    Normal for leveling and Mythic + for endgame is all that is required.

    The key you can get from a Mythic 0 an npc in the capital city might as well give you instead.
    M0 is not useless, it gives infinitely more loot than +2 or +3 that you would be farming in it's place and it is an excellent place to go for fresh alts or at the start of expansions to gear up.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by cuafpr View Post
    I did ... and eventually left the guild cause they found a tank that enjoyed M+ and then pulled that person into raids. again is what it is.
    Kinda same here. I raided with the same guild for 10 years but all of a sudden they started requiring us to do a +15 every week outside of raiding hours or be benched it didn't take long for me to quit the game since stressful speed runs is the exact opposite of what I want to do to relax after a hard day's work.

    Thankfully I found a home in FFXIV instead where not only was raid logging possible but my favorite type of in between raids content was also present in queued badge gear. I wish I could return to WoW but it's quite apparent that the current dev team don't want my kind there, they want ultra competitive mythic raiders and key pushers.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogfaroth View Post
    The fact you have to grind normal before you queue for heroic, which by the time you have the normal dungeons loot, feels like doing exactly the same all over again, is not something I'd miss.
    the game has almost never been played that way. what people have done is buy boosts, buy BoE gear from the AH or organize funnels to gear up. then blow past or ignore normal raids and just squash heroic raids en route to mythic. maybe put 2 months in TOPS. then they quit the game for 5-6 months and do it again next tier. no burnout.
    TO FIX WOW:1. smaller server sizes & server-only LFG awarding satchels, so elite players help others. 2. "helper builds" with loom powers - talent trees so elite players cast buffs on low level players XP gain, HP/mana, regen, damage, etc. 3. "helper ilvl" scoring how much you help others. 4. observer games like in SC to watch/chat (like twitch but with MORE DETAILS & inside the wow UI) 5. guild leagues to compete with rival guilds for progression (with observer mode).6. jackpot world mobs.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Garkanh View Post
    That just goes to show that you have no grasp on the game overall.

    I've been in a casual normal/hc raiding guild since wotlk. It died in BFA. But the decline slowly started in legion.

    At the start of mythic+, it was great. But slowly people didn't care about raiding, when you got better gear, faster, spamming mythic+.

    After a while, people started leaving the game, because they were tired of doing the same few dungeons over and over, and raiding felt like a waste of time.
    Legion kept the guild alive, because atleast people were trying to get most of the mage tower skins, but that all ended in bfa, because the cancer that is m+ was the only worthwhile investment of your time.

    And it's shit. I think i've met 2 people irl who actually enjoyed it, and dozens who didn't.

    The issue is that it's been 3 exspansions of this now, so those who hate m+ are mostly gone. The m+ community is a tiny, but loud, community.

    Atleast cap the ilvl at normal raid ilvl, so hc raiding can survive.
    I was thinking about replying to you, but you have no interest in it, and you're so arrogant and narrowminded about your opinion and experience (absolutely anecdotal) as anything else "having no grasp on the game overall", that i decided against it.

    Luckily, your opinion means nothing and doesn't dictate anything regarding the game, for which we should all be grateful for, and your attitude is easily ignored, which is also a plus.

    have a pleasant day.

  17. #97
    these dungeons show the story/characters as well as offer some barebones social aspect in an MMO that has notoriously removed most of its social aspects (except meet with your raid twice a week).

    m+ is cancer because of the timer... frankly anything that relies on a timer to be challenging is just garbage.

  18. #98
    Keep normal as the easiest difficulty so scrubs can finish them for the story

    Turn heroic into mythic+0 and tune it up as much

    Keep mythic+ as it is, though I'd love to see a non-timed version

  19. #99
    Nope. Normal & Heroic have their place and that's been well discussed and is known by everyone, including yourself who seemingly is getting off somehow on a bait thread.

  20. #100
    Tbh, if they really wanted to they could make +0s the same difficulty as current normal, heroic the same as +5, mythic +10 and then just scale up from there to kind of ease people who may feel stuck in heroic right now into mythic+. Might be a cool change to the system but they'd have to cut off dungeon finder at some difficulty anyways.

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