Is it time to remove Normal/Heroic dungeons? They are uselesss since M+

[Biglog]

It sounds like the majority have spoken in opposition of the OP's topic here. It's also an elitist argument, an increasingly common one where someone plays a certain way and wants everyone else to do the same. Plenty of people play use normal/heroics for seeing the content and story/lore without the stress of mythic+. It's also used by a lot of people either for alts or for casual gearing up. Just because the OP doesn't do this and goes straight to m+, many other players do not and it's good to be empathetic to that rather than wanting to want to make them play the way you do. What's not fun for you may be for others, and vice-versa. A lot of people love m+, but it's also brought toxicity, the stress from timers isn't a fun mechanic, and it's divisive among players when the ones doing them are often progressing at different key levels.

[Dilbon]

One of the best parts of Shadowlands is that dungeons are completely optional outside normal. I haven't done a single mythic dungeon in this expansion (well ok, one m0) because I don't need to. For quests normal is fine.

[HansOlo]

Pretty straight forward. Blizzard has destroyed any reason to really do normal/heroic runs even while leveling the amount of exp is a joke to be earned.
So is it time to say goodbye to difficulties that are ignored by like 99% of the playerbase?

Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all togheter.

You have created 25 threads - 11 of them are locked.

What are you trying?

[Orange Joe]

How are NM dungeons any value to the current state of the game? They are straight up ignored once u ding max level same with Heroic.
The dungeon loot is legit ashamely bad low. Current NM gives ilvl 236 items, which is so low. (And chances of u getting 1 item in a run is also small)

Dungeon story telling is good indeed, but not with Normal/Heroic anymore.

What is the point of having so much different difficulties? Atleast adjust the ones u want to keep and make them into 1.

this sounds like a case of I do this so EVERYONE must do the same as me.......


I still do normal/heroic dungeons. I don't care about mythic.

[Huzzaa]

Remove? Remove M+

[Echo of Soul]

I was thinking about replying to you, but you have no interest in it, and you're so arrogant and narrowminded about your opinion and experience (absolutely anecdotal) as anything else "having no grasp on the game overall", that i decided against it.

Luckily, your opinion means nothing and doesn't dictate anything regarding the game, for which we should all be grateful for, and your attitude is easily ignored, which is also a plus.

have a pleasant day.

I don't think you understand what not replying looks like.

[Rozz]

They could merge heroic and normal -- normal difficulty dps checks and damage output, but heroic encounters and abilities.

Let Mythic 0 be the new heroic and go from there. I can see where it gets redundant to have 3 difficulties and one of them has negligible use ( 1 story run and transmog). I don't like Mythic+ because I don't like running dungeons. I like raiding more, but that's totally not because I started healing, and having at least 1 other person to deal with someone nuking their health bar via ignoring mechanics is preferable.

Anyways, it's not the worst idea to consider looking at why the difficulties exist as they are. That's why we got flex in raiding originally. Shit was redundant.

[Biomega]

This is how I'd change the dungeon system:


Remove all difficulties from dungeons at maximum level, have a single point-based scale. Before maximum level, dungeons have no difficulty at all, but scale to level so you can use them while leveling.

+1 to +4 have no affixes and no timer.

+5 to +9 have one affix and no timer.

+10 to +14 have two affixes and no timer.

+15 to +20 have three affixes and a timer.

21+ have four affixes and a timer.

Seasonal affix is the SECOND affix, so it's always Tyr/For -> Seasonal -> and only then added rotational affixes (Volcanic, Necrotic, etc.).

Remove the keystone system. Have a simple drop-down menu at the font where you can select up to the highest key level you've completed, with +1 to +3 higher available depending on your best run for the current dungeon.

One dungeon in the pool will be the bonus dungeon for you, with +100% currency drop. Whenever you complete a bonus dungeon, the bonus changes to a random different dungeon. Every player has their own bonus dungeon.

After starting a dungeon run, leaving the party before the dungeon completes will give you a 2-hour debuff that prevents you from using the group finder tool to look for or create dungeon groups.

Levels from +1 to +14 can be queued in an automated LFG queue, where you can set a range of levels that you would like to do up to the highest level you've completed (+time bonus; fresh characters start with levels 1 to 4 unlocked).

[Lex Icon]

mythic the name is the anomaly here. it should just be normal and heroic/+
no need for the mythic descriptor.

[Uvania]

Normal: Leveling / fresh max level chars / completing quests or emissary
Heroic: Getting those last pieces to be able to start with LFR raiding / mythic dungeons
Mythic: Getting geared for normal raiding / mythic+
Mythic+: Optional gearing route along heroic raiding or as an option to get those pieces missing for mythic raiding.
Mythic++: This is ur end-game and ur pushing +20 keys or higher all day long for those juicy rewards and mythic raiding ilvl gear.

If something should be axed its heroic dungeons since they fulfill the least purpose and its showing since the queue for heroic dungeons is 100% dead mostly.

if i want to get a new toon ready to raid i currently buy 4-set 246 ilvl and 2x legendaries 291 since my main is drowning in flux anyway and if its bg week i might queue bgs for some fast 268 ilvl loot (i play alliance and we get tons of honor during bg week)

[MoanaLisa]

M+ are pre-made groups that have their own challenges to assemble and gain a seat in.

Normal/heroic, you just queue for them and off you go.

That's why they shouldn't go away and as an aside I'm getting really tired of people deciding they want stuff removed from the game.

Normal/heroic still do have a use.

[Soon-TM]

Keep Normal as it is.

Keep Heroic as it is.

M0 becomes H1, M2 becomes H2, and so on.

[Donald Hellscream]

Sure, then add mythic+ as an option for the random dungeon finder, this would of course never work because of the nature of M+, but there is no justification for constantly wanting things removed from the game, especially things that are as benign as easy to do dungeons.
Normal/heroic is just fine for when you just want to sign up for a quick dungeon in the dungeon finder.

[Zelk]

add Justice points back and let more casual players run dungeons to upgrade their gear from world quests and heroic dungeons

[shadowlandsx]

no leave it alone stop trying to take stuff out.. because if they do ,, guess what everyone will whine and cry even more.. do the content you want to do .. or that you can do .. but blizzard should take all the freaking math raider io score/ affixes timers...etc all that jazz/crap out and stop trying to force players to play wow as a esports game. a number doesnt make anyone better or worst it just creates a toxic enviroment that nobody wants to deal with thats why 100's of thousand of previous wow players left and quit the game to go somewhere else to another gaming studios.

[Gimlix]

no leave it alone stop trying to take stuff out.. because if they do ,, guess what everyone will whine and cry even more.. do the content you want to do .. or that you can do .. but blizzard should take all the freaking math raider io score/ affixes timers...etc all that jazz/crap out and stop trying to force players to play wow as a esports game. a number doesnt make anyone better or worst it just creates a toxic enviroment that nobody wants to deal with thats why 100's of thousand of previous wow players left and quit the game to go somewhere else to another gaming studios.

No reason to keep it when it aint rewarding or worth doing. It is a waste of resources. Like alot of features that have been added into wow just to be removed 1 expansion later. WoW needs to stick with the core they have instead of expanding everything so there is a difficulty for every person on the planet.

[talmir]

No reason to keep it when it aint rewarding or worth doing. It is a waste of resources. Like alot of features that have been added into wow just to be removed 1 expansion later. WoW needs to stick with the core they have instead of expanding everything so there is a difficulty for every person on the planet.

"No reason to keep it when it aint rewarding or worth doing."

Personal opinions are not facts. People are still doing them, so to them they are rewarding and worth doing. Get out of your own bubble please.

[Ielenia]

Why do NM when you can get to Zereth Mortis and get easy 252+ gear? This is the case currently, Blizzard legit thinks players will first do NM, then Heroic, then ZM, then M+ then raiding. While most people go straight for either M+ or raiding.

It's not exactly "easy 252 gear". Because when you first arrive to Zereth-Mortis, the Cypher gear you find starts at 233, which is below Raid Finder level gear. Only through several weeks of playing to upgrade your stuff in ZM that you finally get to 252 cypher gear.

Which is the same item level as normal Sepulcher of the First Ones' level gear. Not to mention the last three bosses (Lords of Dread, Rygelon and the Jailer) drop higher item level gear: 259. Cypher gear in no way, shape or form is better than heroic gear, as your progression seems to imply.

[dragonflight10]

Honestly, I would be fine with this.

I would like to see dungeons be a challenge again...and not a challenge of beating a timer. How about a thoughtful approach?

For this to work, Blizz would need to go back to its deep past and...wait for it...actually provide content! They could create 16 dungeons for BC and Wrath over a decade ago. The tools must be substantially more streamlined now than back then...they should be able to create 20+ dungeons for each expansion now.

Of course, the reason this won't happen isn't because it shouldn't happen...it's because it costs *much* less for Blizz to dribble out 8 dungeons and put a slider on it. And you have a host of fanbois who think the abuse they are getting for the past 4 or 5 expansions is paradise somehow.

M+ is challenging right now, just because it didn't meet your fantasy of being hard doesn't mean it is not.
if that happened what's stopping people from using BL every pull and then wait ??

It's not happening because m+ is very popular
Just because you suck and get anxious when there's a timer doesn't mean the system is not working, its a you problem

[CalamityHeart]

Nah, I don't think it's time. I don't do M+, and I enjoy casually running through heroics to get my emissaries done when it calls for it. Queued content is cozy, and I'd really prefer if it stuck around.

Or remove M+ and make Normal same as M0 while heroic can be M+ while removing mythic all together.

Lmao, sure, I guess. As long as what I would consider 'Normal' and 'Heroic' remains that I can queue for, I don't really care what it would be called.