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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    Possible. I also think Blizzard need to do a way better job of making leveling alts easier (at least alts from each faction). Shared profession ranks, shared reputations, etc. I know this goes against the philosophy of keep the player busy as long as possible by doing the same portions of the game multiple time across the players alts. But there should be a happy medium.
    I'd say that given the part that keeps the most people around is the launch glut, Blizzard should focus on frequent content updates and/or finding a way to make the leveling experience more replayable.

    I played all twelve classes throughout Legion. Did not mind leveling them at all because the artifact acquisition quests and the class campaign added enough variety to the experience. Many CRPGs have people doing multiple playthroughs because through choices (story or group composition) the gameplay in each playthrough is sufficiently different. Blizzard has tried that with Chromie Time and now in Shadowlands by letting you level in different ways; I think they need to dig deeper and iterate on this.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    Possible. I also think Blizzard need to do a way better job of making leveling alts easier (at least alts from each faction). Shared profession ranks, shared reputations, etc. I know this goes against the philosophy of keep the player busy as long as possible by doing the same portions of the game multiple time across the players alts. But there should be a happy medium.
    dear lord yes. This. I have a few characters stuck at level 50 to 53 because shadowlands leveling is awful :|

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    ??? I mean most of questing in all of wow's history has had npcs stop to talk to eachother for a bit before letting you continue, having done the entire main questline like 5 times now, it seems no more then past expansions.

    Dungeons incomplete for this stage of testing?
    nah, not at all, again comparable to prior expansions ive tested.

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    having been in day 1 alpha for both, it is actually ahead of shadowlands by a fair bit.
    It feels like it's more then past expansions but I could be biased. Sl killed the last shred of interest I had in the fluff. Like I said though my interest is mostly in endgame and that is clearly still be worked on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    Just FYI, Warlords of Draenor was also highly praised within it's first couple weeks from launch. That changed quickly towards the middle and end of the expansion.

    I think almost all expansions experience some form of "honeymoon" period right at launch. It's new and there are lots of places to explore. But after a while the new car smell fades and people are left wondering "That's it?". Of course some of those people speed rush through the leveling portion of the game to get to the end game as fast as possible.
    I never did get the hate for wod. I think its mistake was honestly tying loot to garrisons. That one misstep invalidated the lionshare of its non raid content instantly.

  4. #24

  5. #25
    My biggest gripe playing beta at the moment are talent trees. I hate picking abilities that used to be baseline, generally speaking those talent trees feel like a step back really.

    Other than that everything looks rather ok. Same old mostly.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    I never did get the hate for wod. I think its mistake was honestly tying loot to garrisons. That one misstep invalidated the lionshare of its non raid content instantly.
    I think the perception was that Blizzard was rushing through the end of WoD and cutting content in an effort to get Legion out faster. Imagine the WoD that could have been if Blizzard committed to making it the fully realized game they originally had planned. Unfortunately this seems to happening more often than not. Blizzard rather push out expansions faster than actually slowing down and making each expansion memorable. But I guess that doesn't fit into the corporate model these days.
    "The customer is always right" is a nice way of saying "I will put up with your bullshit as long as you pay me"

  7. #27
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Who knows, as usual the real test for new expansion is not the first month when you have shitton of new and unexplored stuff to chew on, but what happens 3rd month and forward.

    The class changes ARE big and people who downplay it have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Many of the talents ARE returning bonuses/legendaries/sets from last 3 expansions, but the fact that you can now mix and combine them opens up a huge amount of options that will transform the way specs play a lot.

    The new areas are huge and grand, the new class/race is both exciting (first new ranged DD spec in WoW ever) and has insane amount of customization to boot.


    However, on the flipside, what will make or break DF is 10.1 and 10.2, how fast are they delivered and what they will be - because if 10.1 will be another dogshit like Korthia 8 months after expansion launch - it will all go down the drain fast.

    As a side note - I really hope Blizzard splits the 6 monts deliveries into 3+3 instead, they need to find a way to launch more frequent content updates even if each of them will be smaller.
    Remember Mists of Pandaria? Each 3 months a patch. Small Patch, Big Patch, Small Patch, Big Patch.. etc..
    I do hope they can deliver like that again. MoP was stable near 8 million subscribers due of that for the whole expansion period.
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  8. #28
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by melzas View Post
    My biggest gripe playing beta at the moment are talent trees. I hate picking abilities that used to be baseline, generally speaking those talent trees feel like a step back really.

    Other than that everything looks rather ok. Same old mostly.
    Honestly I think they should have just designed the trees for less points. 61 points are just too many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Remember Mists of Pandaria? Each 3 months a patch. Small Patch, Big Patch, Small Patch, Big Patch.. etc..
    I do hope they can deliver like that again. MoP was stable near 8 million subscribers due of that for the whole expansion period.
    Legion delivered that as well. BfA was not really far off.

  9. #29
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by talmir View Post
    dear lord yes. This. I have a few characters stuck at level 50 to 53 because shadowlands leveling is awful :|
    I had this issue with multiple expansions though even the ones considered "Great" so this is more of a questing issue in general
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
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    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  10. #30
    I don't like the forced campaign leveling and there's a lot of bugged quests

    The dungeons are pretty quick but that's expected for the overly basic versions

    The story is definitely better than SL imo

    Endgame renown grind for those factions reminds me of MoP

    Professions are better

    Classes are constantly getting worked on so it improved every week

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Redwyrm View Post
    I think the perception was that Blizzard was rushing through the end of WoD and cutting content in an effort to get Legion out faster. Imagine the WoD that could have been if Blizzard committed to making it the fully realized game they originally had planned. Unfortunately this seems to happening more often than not. Blizzard rather push out expansions faster than actually slowing down and making each expansion memorable. But I guess that doesn't fit into the corporate model these days.
    Legion took 4 years to make. It started development at the same time as WoD. WoD ran into issues with the new hires taking too long to get the handle of Blizzards tools. The stuff anyone thought was rushed through at the end of WoD to make way for Legion, were decisions made well before launch. You can see the stuff that was initially planned during the WoD reveal Blizzcon, and How that was missing at launch. A zone missing and it's story merged into other zones, A raid that never made it in, Static Garrison locations, and so on. Big decisions like that get made before launch and were.

    Legion came out on time, like pretty much every expansion, 2 years later. Nothing about Legion felt rushed or missing. The only other expansion to have major hiccups like WoD was SL due to Covid and a massive lawsuit going public. If anything, that halted the second raid and cut the story short in order to finish the expansion, but still, that decision would have been made early at the onset of those events as the work from home situation was immensley disruptive to a massive team coloration such as WoW.

    In fact the only expansion that didn't fit that time line was WotLK. TBC released in Jan of 2007, and less than 2 years later in Nov of 2008, WotLK came out, yet no one claims that one to be rushed.

  12. #32
    Stood in the Fire Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Does it look on first hand better then Shadowlands though?
    First poster was a bit of a doomer.

    Honestly, it depends on what you like about WoW. If you enjoyed the so-called borrowed power systems, you're not going to find much here. If you just want to log in and do the content you're ultimately here for, without the chore checklist? It's going to be fantastic for you.

  13. #33
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    First poster was a bit of a doomer.

    Honestly, it depends on what you like about WoW. If you enjoyed the so-called borrowed power systems, you're not going to find much here. If you just want to log in and do the content you're ultimately here for, without the chore checklist? It's going to be fantastic for you.
    I want WoW to be WoW again. Do you know what i mean? The quality content we received from Vanilla up till Mists of Pandaria. I just wanna be able to hang in a town and legit have fun. That is what WoW used to offer to anyone.

    Now it's just the top tier scene that gets some love and rest just have to enjoy old content that we been doing for 18 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
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  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Berkilak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    I want WoW to be WoW again. Do you know what i mean? The quality content we received from Vanilla up till Mists of Pandaria. I just wanna be able to hang in a town and legit have fun. That is what WoW used to offer to anyone.

    Now it's just the top tier scene that gets some love and rest just have to enjoy old content that we been doing for 18 years.
    On paper, that's their stated goal. To "give up" on trying to win against the min/maxers to the detriment of everyone else, and to allow people to do they content they enjoy doing without having to do other stuff to stay competitive.

  15. #35
    Scarab Lord Polybius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkilak View Post
    First poster was a bit of a doomer.

    Honestly, it depends on what you like about WoW. If you enjoyed the so-called borrowed power systems, you're not going to find much here. If you just want to log in and do the content you're ultimately here for, without the chore checklist? It's going to be fantastic for you.
    Despite the criticism simplicity gets I hope it remains that way. Today’s gaming environment calls for easy pick-up and play, with tools to group with friends. Vanilla WoW had the benefit of helping friends but recent difficulty levels and restrictions widened the gap.
    Last edited by Polybius; 2022-09-06 at 04:52 PM.

  16. #36
    High Overlord Grax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polybius View Post
    Despite the criticism simplicity gets I hope it remains that way. Today’s gaming environment calls for easy pick-up and play, with tools to group with friends. and mechanics that reinforce addictive behavior and never-ending spending. Vanilla WoW had the benefit of helping friends but recent difficulty levels and restrictions widened the gap.
    Fixed. If they'd just get rid of the daily chores, smooth the gear curve, and pare down the difficulty levels to Normal and Mythic+ dungeons and Normal and Mythic raids, I'd play retail again.

  17. #37
    Merely a Setback FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grax View Post
    Fixed. If they'd just get rid of the daily chores, smooth the gear curve, and pare down the difficulty levels to Normal and Mythic+ dungeons and Normal and Mythic raids, I'd play retail again.
    Funny.

    1- daily chores? Gone, daily stuff entirely optional now mate.
    2- Smooth the gear curve? Yep that done too
    3- Pare down the difficulty of normal/M+? Yeah that is being done too

    Welcome back.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Celement View Post
    Leveling is some of the worst it's ever been with forced breaks and down times from npcs trying to build character with unskipable ramblings.

    Dungeons are really to incomplete for testing at this stage but the talent trees show quite a bit of promise.

    Come back a month or so from the launch date for more info.
    Have to say I hard disagree with most of this, I think it’s shaping up to be fantastic. Granted, I haven't seen end-game much (it SOUNDS good?), but I really can't see how you can knock the leveling.

    It's a 'trim the fat' expansion, I never actually felt that SL was as bad as people have made it out to be (at least since the later patches), so for me, removing the bits of SL that really hold a back generally leaves an enjoyable expansion.

    Taking away everything bad and leaving us with a giant sandbox, dragon-riding and the rest of the standard end-game is all I really want, other than housing.
    Last edited by DechCJC; 2022-09-06 at 06:50 PM.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Angrie View Post
    My personal thought process with DF, don't buy until week 3 after launch. This will be enough time for the PLAYERS to provide full feedback on the game. Like you said 10.0 needs to be a homerun. Right now, it's looking like a base hit. Don't trust anything streamers are saying about it, it's their "job". The money right now it's better spent elsewhere if i'm honest - Activision doing Activision things.
    Worst advice I have ever seen, generally the first few weeks of an expansion are the most fun you will have. However, if you plan on playing the game single player and not involving yourself in basically any of the end game, then starting later after reviews are out can be a decent idea.

    That being said, looking at reviews are a poor replacement for first hand experience. I have read countless reviews of games and movies in the past that denounced them as terrible, and I have thoroughly enjoyed when actually trying to product out for myself.
    Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

  20. #40
    Hard to say i remember people being extremely hyped for sl too after beta but looks alright so far.
    Do you hear the voices too?

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