How does Dragonflight look so far, Good, bad, same as usual?

[Osmeric]

so cut your addiction, leave, don't come back, if you hate it so much the only joy you can get is seeing it die, then fucking leave?

Why should I care what you want?

[Ielenia]

"5 min cd" 4 min cd,

Is that really such an important detail you feel it's really something you should address?

with clickables around the area that reset it

That don't show up on the mini-map, neither we had any indication they even existed?

You must be doing so much wrong, cause "lose tons of speed if you even slightly angel up" is not true.

And this "so much wrong" is apparently tilting upwards just slightly above horizontal, apparently.

The evoker class is very complicated, they don't want to have too much at once, they want a simple navigated experience, instead of after every quest you having to open your talent tree again, cause yeah no that is something that was never really fun about the dk starting zone, after every single quest having to open your tab again and put points in.

The evoker isn't that complicated. And guess what? Spending a small handful of talent points every quest or two is still much better than suddenly dumping everything on your lap once you finish the starting zone experience. Because at least you can play around with the talents while going through the starting experience, considering there's quite a handful of rest zones.

Not to mention I'd have greatly benefited from abilities such as Landslide, Pyre and Dragonrage, instead of just spamming Azure Strike interspersed with the occasional Disintegrate, and once-in-a-blue moon do a wing buffet or tail sweep, with Living Flame to heal myself.

[CalamityHeart]

The evoker class is very complicated, they don't want to have too much at once, they want a simple navigated experience, instead of after every quest you having to open your talent tree again, cause yeah no that is something that was never really fun about the dk starting zone, after every single quest having to open your tab again and put points in.
if they simply balanced it around you having no points, and give them all to you at the end, that is much better.

Eh, disagree. I personally haven't touched Evoker, but even so, I would definitely vastly prefer if they slowly gave you talent points over the course of leveling instead of dumping them all at once on you at the end, especially if Evoker truly is complicated.

Balancing the starting experience around having no points, and then going into the Dragon Isles as a suddenly much more robust character than you were five minutes ago doesn't sound like the greatest design in the world. If the option is there to ease Evokers steadily into what they can do with their talents and abilities, even if it costs like a minute or two to stop and press 'N', I feel like they should take that, rather than not.

[FelPlague]

Eh, disagree. I personally haven't touched Evoker, but even so, I would definitely vastly prefer if they slowly gave you talent points over the course of leveling instead of dumping them all at once on you at the end, especially if Evoker truly is complicated.

Balancing the starting experience around having no points, and then going into the Dragon Isles as a suddenly much more robust character than you were five minutes ago doesn't sound like the greatest design in the world. If the option is there to ease Evokers steadily into what they can do with their talents and abilities, even if it costs like a minute or two to stop and press 'N', I feel like they should take that, rather than not.

Thing is while doing the questing you unlock spells, unlike the DK starting zone, where you just had some abilities, then gained more from leveling and more from talent tree, the evoker questing gives you abilities as you quest, introducing you to them.

- - - Updated - - -

Is that really such an important detail you feel it's really something you should address?


That don't show up on the mini-map, neither we had any indication they even existed?


And this "so much wrong" is apparently tilting upwards just slightly above horizontal, apparently.


The evoker isn't that complicated. And guess what? Spending a small handful of talent points every quest or two is still much better than suddenly dumping everything on your lap once you finish the starting zone experience. Because at least you can play around with the talents while going through the starting experience, considering there's quite a handful of rest zones.

Not to mention I'd have greatly benefited from abilities such as Landslide, Pyre and Dragonrage, instead of just spamming Azure Strike interspersed with the occasional Disintegrate, and once-in-a-blue moon do a wing buffet or tail sweep, with Living Flame to heal myself.

I mean it is literally a 20% difference so yeah it is.
You got introduced to them when you first got soar
ive spent literally hours recording soar footage there, never had this issue mate



Because you are granted abilities throughout the questing, adding talents ontop of that would just be a bit much.

??? Why are you using azure strike to dps? You do know you can attack with living flame right? that is your main dps abiltiy, azure strike is just for instant cast so useable while moving...

seems it is complicated if you are spamming azure strike to dps?

[Ielenia]

You got introduced to them when you first got soar

I was given a scroll that reset its cooldown and was removed once the quest to "try Soar" was over.

Because you are granted abilities throughout the questing, adding talents ontop of that would just be a bit much.

No, no it wouldn't. Especially since the whole purpose of starting zones and leveling is to get us used to what happens during leveling, i.e. new abilities and talents.

??? Why are you using azure strike to dps? You do know you can attack with living flame right? that is your main dps abiltiy, azure strike is just for instant cast so useable while moving...

Which I'm doing a lot to move away from enemies, especially when I'm fighting the rare ones. I'm using Living Flame when I can stand still.

[Lolites]

ego

how can you say "i dont like it so its pointless" and "guy who made it is toxic and have inflated ego" in single paragraph and not see the irony is beyond me...

and no, talent and profesion revamps are not pointless, they are good, you dont like them? tough luck, but why should we care about your opinion?

[Amariw]

In my eyes:

New Talents:

Looks pretty cool. You can play same as you did before, but for many classes there looks to be cool builds and the ability to tailor much more to the exact content type you're doing. Overall, an improvement.

No Borrowed Power
A net gain in my eyes. From the minute the expansion opens you can gain exactly the power ups you wanted, no need to pay 100k gold on the auction like start of SL. Tier sets are the few remaining pieces of borrowed power which are simple to get and yet enough to keep things interesting.

Class Design
Can't comment on classes i don't play, but for example Warlocks gained back Soulburn and others got some cool new talents, toys and new combination to play with which look interesting. Not a huge change from modern legion-SL design in most cases, though.

raids
Can't tell yet, nothing's tested.

m+
Same as raids. We do know we'll get 4 previous dungeons in the first season and not just the expansion's dungeons (the 4 expansion dungeons we aren't having will come in later seasons), which i think can be a nice change of pace.

Pvp
The new talent system allows you to tailor much more extensively for pvp, which can be cool. Design wise, the only big change thus far is the Precognition talent for healers and casters which makes interrupt juking a much more rewarding part of gameplay. Gearing wise, i believe the general plan is same as Shadowlands in this patch (pvp gear scales higher in pvp), which isn't as good as Legion templates in my eyes but works good enough to be fun.

Outdoors
I didn't follow beta enough to see. It seems you have outdoor zones with elites that drop currency for decent pre raid gearing, which is nice. My hope isthat outdoors will have meaningful non-named elites again (not just "rares" that are constantly zerged by 10+ players), alongside a fun reason to kill them, but that became exceedingly rare since legion so i'm not holding my fingers.

Professions
I think meaningful profession gameplay is healthy for wow, but i don't understand or engage in it enough to comment. That said, the efforts blizz is investing in it this expac seems worthwhile so i'm hoping it will bear fruit.

[FelPlague]

Well, think about it. Challenge modes sucked because they had no gearing progression. Short after the devs made it a main source for gear it became way more popular.

What a coincidence!

And hey, do you actually rant about the fact blizzard "forces" you into mythic raiding for gear? No? Well, why then? And why doesn't blizzard "force" you into mythic+ with gear?

Gearing progression for all components is no "forcing" into any gameplay, because if every distinct gameplay would yield gear they need for their progression in their gameplay people could play their distinct gameplay.



The ones that ranted about "requiring gear from other components" were infact gatekeepers, that did not want others to have rewarding gameplay. And really, a dev team that develops its games based on gatekeeping should be fired way more faster than Afrasiabi could say "Cosbyroom".

actually untrue which is fucking hilarious, challenge modes in mop were far more popular. And in WoD Challenge modes gave gear equal to normal level raid gear... if that is your standard for "becoming a main source of gear" then fucking world quests and elemental invasions and siege on dragonbane keep in dragonflight are all also "main sources of gear" cause they ALSO give normal raid level gear...

Holy shit, you really fucking need to do your research and get your facts straight man, if you really think wod challenge mode was "way more popular because it became a main source for gear" when its ilvl was that of NORMAL difficulty, and yet you are complaining about dragonflight not having such when it has COUNTLESS ways to get normal raid level gear by doing world content, then you need to just stop talking out your ass.

also imagine saying devs who make stuff for hardcore players are worse then rapists, come the fuck on man.

[Gimlix]

Nothing > Islands, Warfronts, Torghast

Any day.

We can add Garrison, Class halls, Mission Tables, AP, Anima grind, Ashran to that list

[FelPlague]

No, they flopped hard. Only when blizzard added multiple levels of rewards and a real gearing progression from m+ it actually became popular. Not mainstream, but still it is adressing a notable minority. Including less hardcore players than those which played challenge modes.



https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Challenge_Mode



Also about completion of challenge modes:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Month-DLC-469



The maximum is 17%ish.

And if you check

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-charac...117531#content

In season one SL 2,3 million players have tried mythic+ regarding raider.ios ranking system. If Shadowlands had around 10 million players in total, it would have been around 23% of the players. It is more likely Shadowlands had 7-9mio players in total.

Mythic+ is way more popular than challengemodes.

1- show me any of your sources mate

2- you show me a link to challenge mode... ok? what is that for, to prove you even more wrong and me even more correct?
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/dunge...nge-mode-guide


literally lower then late LFR hellfire.

3- Ok so your comparison of people who did challenge mode pandaria to... season 1 shadowlands M+ is proof that wod challenge modes were more popular?

4- yeah? M+ is more popular then challenge mode, because of countless other reasons, but that was not your argument, your argument was wod was more popular because it was a source of endgame (lfr) gear.
M+ is more popular because it has ACTUAL endgame gear, while also having more varied gameplay with weekly affixes, and also because it works differntly, you dont fail if you run out of time, nor are you scaled to a specific item, nor are tier sets disabled.


so if your standards of "needing to be able to get endgame gear from other sources!" is fucking LFR ilvl gear, then dragon flight will make you very happy, as there is countless activities outside of raid, M+, and PVP to earn normal raid level gear.

I linked all my sources. I linked a quote that challenge modes yielded no loot. I linked a statistic that shows the percentage of players that played them. I linked a number of mythic+ player statistic during SL season 1.

It is not really possible to discuss with you if you ignore all arguments.




So.. what? What does that have to do with our debate?

It only now dawned on me why you are named cantrip, cause you are literally level 0 knowledge.

[Koollan]

Yes, exactly like that, I cannot deny. And yet still I hate.

What an interesting life to live. I don't envy your position of enjoying participation within toxicity. It's fairly self destructive. I hope you solve that, for your sake.

[Osmeric]

What an interesting life to live. I don't envy your position of enjoying participation within toxicity. It's fairly self destructive. I hope you solve that, for your sake.

I don't think it's self destructive. If anything, it keeps me from the arguably self destructive behavior of playing MMOs, or at least this one. It's much more time efficient to hate an MMO than to play it.

[ChairmanKaga]

I do wonder how long they can make it last. two more expansions will undoubtedly lead us to levels of utility beyond even MoP.

I mean I get what you are saying but that's still 4-5 years. Half a decade doesn't seem insignificant.

[Nymrohd]

I mean I get what you are saying but that's still 4-5 years. Half a decade doesn't seem insignificant.

Oh not at all. I really wonder what the option is. People hate the prune ofc. I think the best thing they can do is at some point to not add more talent points but DO add a few more talents so increase the complexity and the options without increasing the power.

[Koollan]

I don't think it's self destructive. If anything, it keeps me from the arguably self destructive behavior of playing MMOs, or at least this one. It's much more time efficient to hate an MMO than to play it.

... I mean, not to get down to brass tacks, but it'd be even more time efficient to just leave it altogether. Content relating to it, the game itself, the community in its entirety. That would be the non-destructive way to live your life. As it stands, participating in toxicity is - big shocker, I know - pretty self destructive.

[RobertMugabe]

Endgame looks really great actually as well as Dragonriding.

That being said though: Leveling is garbage, like holy shit, I cannot believe that they've made it even worse than the leveling was in Shadowlands. It's boring, it's slow and yet so braindead.

[HansOlo]

I linked all my sources. I linked a quote that challenge modes yielded no loot. I linked a statistic that shows the percentage of players that played them. I linked a number of mythic+ player statistic during SL season 1.

It is not really possible to discuss with you if you ignore all arguments.




So.. what? What does that have to do with our debate?

Very Bellular approach.

These arguments(or when people wants to bash WoW with number) - is not showing the whole picture.

This is the main reason they stopped sharing the sub numbers, as people would manipulate thier stock - by 'analyzing' and 'concluding' - essentially causing them to lose money and subs by serving negativity as 'facts'.

You would fail both mathmatics and buisness courses with this thesis - in fact you and the others should stop doing it - you litteraly causing damage.

[FelPlague]

Endgame looks really great actually as well as Dragonriding.

That being said though: Leveling is garbage, like holy shit, I cannot believe that they've made it even worse than the leveling was in Shadowlands. It's boring, it's slow and yet so braindead.

It's slow cause it's beta, you get to the final quest at 67, obviously not going live that way. They want us to test a considerable amount of the side quests.

[FelPlague]

Very Bellular approach.

These arguments(or when people wants to bash WoW with number) - is not showing the whole picture.

This is the main reason they stopped sharing the sub numbers, as people would manipulate thier stock - by 'analyzing' and 'concluding' - essentially causing them to lose money and subs by serving negativity as 'facts'.

You would fail both mathmatics and buisness courses with this thesis - in fact you and the others should stop doing it - you litteraly causing damage.

I do love it.


"Mists of pandaria challenge mode was a flop, wod challenge mode was WAAAAY more popular!"
Show me proof
"See here is mists of pandaria challenge mode, versus shadowlands M+"
Ok how does that prove wod challenge mode was way more popular?
"Lol ignoring my argument!"

[HansOlo]

They stopped reporting numbers because they dropped.

12year old kids are learning to read and write graphs. It's about asking the right question and accessing info that only Blizzard knows. Essentially - there is a whole lot more between the lines - than just looking at activity graphs like some detective.

It's a standard to pull up some random fact sheet and you been contributing nicely.