Is it time to scrap the Alliance and Horde?

[Malcho]

I want to see the end of the great kingdoms and alliances we've had all this time. That way players can decide on their own terms who to fill up their guilds with as well as what smaller factions they want to stand behind. Maybe I want to be a tauren in a guild with some worgen and dwarves, aligned with the bloodsail and only helping the Alliance or Horde as it suits me(but never being able to raise a hand to Thunder Bluff.)

[username993720]

No. On the contrary. I would introduce more factions. Like, one for Night elves and one for Forsaken.

[SinR]

Factions will still play a part in the game.

Stormwind will never allow Orc PCs to wander around and Orgrimmar will never allow Human PCs to chill in the Throne Room, except in situations where it would make sense from a Lore standpoint.

Open Warfare, from a lore perspective, is frowned upon by the leadership, but they realize that there are some people that still stick to the "Old Ways". Leading to...

In the outside world, War Mode will still exist, and Horde VS Alliance will still be a thing. A faction (Steamwheedle Goblins?) will pay people to let them be watched using some Magic Thing in WM for a Weekly "Kill 25 Opposite Faction" quest. Horde and Alliance would not be able to understand each other or group with each other.

Instanced PVP can easily be explained as "This is a faithful recreation of Warsong Gulch, brought to you by Steamwheedle Cartel!". Battlegrounds would be the same size as they are, but open to "Mixed" groups, as a form of entertainment and blowing off steam at the end of a day of Rep Grinding. Think of it kinda like Rated BGs now, but with random queues. Red Team vs Blue Team.

Open World Non-WM, full cooperation and grouping. Random Dungeon Finder/Looking For Raid are open to both sides and groups could be "Mixed". Shared tags for everyone, maybe a buff called The Babble Fish that would translate Common and Orcish.

[owbu]

I think their current method of making factions irrelevant for gameplay, but keeping the factions around in case they come up with a plan how to make them fun again is three best thing they can do.

It's less work, has the same positive effect as disbanding the factions and gives them an easy out, if they want to reconsider. The shitstorm potential is also waaaay lower.

[shadowmatrix]

Shadowlands changed very little. The adventurers lean towards neutrality, the leaders have animosity towards certain others but can put it aside when needed, and the common folks just go about their lives still hating the other faction. A change has started at the top but still needs a few expansions to properly play out.

[Shadowferal]

The change started in MoP when Taran Zhu blatantly condemned the factions as nothing more than a race war. There was an incredible opportunity to build on a storyline that could have at least given a more neutral third faction and take the overall narrative in a refreshingly new direction, but Blizz threw it away for Iron Horde timey wimey crap.

[Feanoro]

Taran Zhu blatantly condemned the factions as nothing more than a race war.

Another thing that pompous, self-righteous hypocrite was wrong about.

There was an incredible opportunity to build on a storyline that could have at least given a more neutral third faction and take the overall narrative in a refreshingly new direction, but Blizz threw it away for Iron Horde timey wimey crap.

Yep, if the idiotic stalemate was ever going to end, that was the time. Any attempt now will see us rehash Garrosh yet again, probably even worse the next time.

[Mercos]

If they are ditching the faction war and not having world PVP events then the factions really don't serve a purpose anymore.

[Gimlix]

The Horde Vs Alliance conflict is what made me love WoW over other games.
I am already against the crossfaction stuff, removing the whole barrier just makes WoW like any other MMORPG. I see no reason in removing this.
I doubt i am the only one who feels like this.

[Itisamuh]

It's been time to scrap the pointless factions for well over a decade, not that Blizzard will actually do it, given their stubborn stance that it's not Warcraft without the faction war, despite the countless other enemies we've fought, and despite the number of times the factions have joined to face said enemies.

[Rozz]

Azeroth would be better off if elves were allowed to reconcile, everyone stopped fighting on behalf of humans/orcs, and Forsaken stop existing or adapt to the current world(which they're choosing to do).

So unironically, if you killed off most of the old guard cast, everything would probably be better.

And I'm saying this from a lore perspective, not 'are the factions good for the story/game' perspective.

[boots1991]

The best conflicts in Warcraft have been against non player faction foes.
The Alliance and Horde conflict cannot continue as a stable story concept and be interesting.

Change will be hard and a lot of die hard factionalism members wont like the the prospect of faction dissolution.
Its not lovecraft. It is common scene.
Blood elves walk through Troll territory. Goblins can walk around Thunder Bluff.
A small fox thing can exist in Org..and not be eaten. Zug Zug.

Let affiliation to factions be a secondary issue. The allies races have made things ridiculous enough as it is.

[VladlTutushkin]

I am not sure if its the time, but Blizz sure as hell cant do anything right with the factions, so why keep them anyway?

[ChronoSul]

It should have been scrapped after MoP tbh. BUT now given recent events aka wiping out most of the nelfs and their home its something that logically can never be removed(even if blizzard wants to sweep in under the rug). In the expansion after dragonflight it will probably be another faction war expansion but this time the Alliance being the aggressors with Turalyon as the big bad with Anduin returning to put a stop to it.

[mitrooper]

" Is it time to scrap the Alliance and Horde?"

Sure, then we can all sing "Kumbaya, My Lord" together around a huge-ass campfire.

[Hambo94]

With the end of BFA, came the end of all out war between the factions.
Thorough Shadowlands we cast out faction affiliation away for covenants, all the races fought a common yet terribly implemented foe.
In Dragonflight we will set out as explorers and support the flights. The conflict has passed and data mined npc's show that the divide between factions is healing slowly.

While many want to see the Alliance positioned as the bad guy of an expansion for once. It would just be a rehash of the Horde civil war during Garrosh's era.
In the end the faction divide seems only to serve PvP.

I admit that having an Orc or Forsaken walk through Stormwind safely would be unlikely, as would a Human or Night elf walking through the Undercity.
However the factions let Death Knights, Warlocks and all other kind of shady individuals wander around the capitals as long as they are considered "Heroes" (Our player characters).
We even have situations like the Dwarfs. Ironforge has the Dark Iron walking thought the city once more.

My solution - Allow player characters to join any faction. As champions (or whatever) the prestige should overrule old grievances.
To make PvP situations work in the story line. Borrow from the idea of FFXIV Free Company's. Merc forces that fight over points of interest works better than trying to explain why the Horde and Alliance still fight in many of the battlegrounds.

Preferably Dragonflight will continue to mend the divide between factions and allow for a new era.
Another Faction conflict would just be more of the same.

You need to realise, there are millions of Warcraft players that come from the RTS days like myself and whilst there are practicality issues with having a split player base as we all know, this whole idea of just destroying the division is never going to float. There are so many other things you can do to fix the issues, cross faction raids/dungeons, cross faction guilds, they're already doing all of that, but they have stated that the division is literally a pillar of the franchise, and I dont understand why people want that pillar knocking down in the name of progressing.

Warcraft isnt FFXIV, personally, and this is my opinion, this whole idea of prestige should overrule old grievances as you say it, literally ruins what I like about Warcraft. I dont ever want to see them scrap the split, to me, having people that love horde, and others that love alliance, and there being this constant tension is what makes Warcraft what it is.

I do want to see us be able to cross faction raid for practicality reasons, and we've got that. I love horde characters, and I loved playing the orcs in WC3, equally, my friends who used to love playing the humans in WC3 love playing alliance, now we can both enjoy the theme of our characters and still play together. That dosent mean that I want to rock up in Org and see a ton of humans and dwarves.

[VladlTutushkin]

" Is it time to scrap the Alliance and Horde?"

Sure, then we can all sing "Kumbaya, My Lord" together around a huge-ass campfire.

They already had to crush Alliance’s last shreds of self respect and collectively cuck the night elves for that exact reason. Why not take a final step?

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You need to realise, there are millions of Warcraft players that come from the RTS days like myself and whilst there are practicality issues with having a split player base as we all know, this whole idea of just destroying the division is never going to float. There are so many other things you can do to fix the issues, cross faction raids/dungeons, cross faction guilds, they're already doing all of that, but they have stated that the division is literally a pillar of the franchise, and I dont understand why people want that pillar knocking down in the name of progressing.

Warcraft isnt FFXIV, personally, and this is my opinion, this whole idea of prestige should overrule old grievances as you say it, literally ruins what I like about Warcraft. I dont ever want to see them scrap the split, to me, having people that love horde, and others that love alliance, and there being this constant tension is what makes Warcraft what it is.

I do want to see us be able to cross faction raid for practicality reasons, and we've got that. I love horde characters, and I loved playing the orcs in WC3, equally, my friends who used to love playing the humans in WC3 love playing alliance, now we can both enjoy the theme of our characters and still play together. That dosent mean that I want to rock up in Org and see a ton of humans and dwarves.

They spent almost entire of BfA’s end content crushing pride of both factions and brutally humiliating Alliance to make peace with the Horde.

There is no coming back from it. Its done. Peace for our time because sure as shit nobody wants fight your plot armoured ass ever again to get genocided and then forced to forgive.

[Hambo94]

They already had to crush Alliance’s last shreds of self respect and collectively cuck the night elves for that exact reason. Why not take a final step?

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They spent almost entire of BfA’s end content crushing pride of both factions and brutally humiliating Alliance to make peace with the Horde.

There is no coming back from it. Its done. Peace for our time because sure as shit nobody wants fight your plot armoured ass ever again to get genocided and then forced to forgive.

One bad expansion that barely anybody played because most people thought it was trash dosent crush decades worth of RTS and great WoW xpacs that have all cemented the idea that in the Warcraft universe there is horde, and there is alliance. Sometimes they are at war, sometimes theres genocide, sometimes theres fragile peace, and sometimes they band together to fight the big bad. You might think that, or want that to end, but I dont personally.

Blizzard have literally said that they will never remove that pillar from WoW, so unless there is a truly seismic change in philosophy at Blizzard, its never going to happen.

You have to realise something, what makes LOTR, LOTR. Its good vs evil, its the world vs the evil and the orcs and the trolls etc.

What makes star wars, star wars. Its the light side, vs the dark side.

What makes warcraft, warcraft. Its the alliance, versus the horde.

You're asking for them to just erase that permanently, for me, and I believe the vast majority of others, that dosent sit right.

I think the vast majority of players just want cross faction play, but they dont want to see orcs walking around in stormwind. Thats just my opinion though.

[AngerFork]

The problem with a question like whether it's time to scrap the Alliance & Horde is that the answer varies greatly pending whether you are talking about it from a lore standpoint or a gameplay standpoint.

From a gameplay standpoint, the faction split is the source of innumerable problems. The number of players doing high end content has increased on the Horde side while decreasing on the Alliance side drastically to the point where finding a group could take hours on the Alliance side, yet almost no time for the Horde. The problem snowballed making it harder & harder, in essence forcing the cross-faction play. It's not incorrect to say that the player base through their actions decided they were largely done with the faction split. Once cross-faction guilds are enabled, the Alliance/Horde split will largely be an irrelevant item within the game.

However, this is different when it comes down to lore. Lore-wise, many of the leaders of the Alliance & Horde might be up for working together, but there's still a lot of unresolved tension to work through. Talanji still wants revenge against the Alliance for the death of Rastakhan while Greymane clearly still harbors anger towards the Horde, based on his conversation with Lor'themar. That's before even getting into how the Alliance & Horde each have far too much pride in their individual factions to ever willingly join the other faction & go under that faction's leadership. If it is actually just removed from the game & we have Orcs running through Stormwind as if nothing happened, it will feel wrong.

IMO, the best way is what we are seeing now. Allow cross-faction play/guilds to fix the gameplay issues, but keep the lore pieces in place. Have the players be as separated from the faction politics as they can be while still having just enough of a foothold to keep the experience of being in their respective factions.

[Feanoro]

sometimes theres genocide

Yeah, the Horde calls that "Monday morning at the office".

You missed the point, it's incredibly one-sided with the Alliance only ever winning on paper or in offhand mentions while its losses and humiliations take center stage. It's asking for the conflict to never be a major plot point again due to this.