Layering has no place in WoW or any MMORPG

[mysticx]

Shift back to WoW history... the opening of the gates of Ahn'Qiraj (original not the classic servers) was an INSANE lag fest. Literally UNPLAYABLE.

Sorry but no thanks, I value my time more than the seeing the world "full" of players.

I was doing a Scholo-run (Or Strat, doesn't really matter) at the time the event was going on (So i was on the instance-server instead of the world-server), seeing almost my entire guild repeatedly get disconnected, then all quickly clamber online again, only to be disconnected again within seconds, that was one of the silliest things i'd ever seen, ironically, WoW can't handle truly massive events...

But on a smaller scale, any kill quest would become truly agonizing at busy times, layering is fine, seeing other people you don't interact with anyway mucking about in the background is vastly overrated.

[Alcsaar]

Layering in my opinion does NOT belong inside a MMORPG. It's already in the name: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Yesterday there were 12 layers on classic server, 12.

How is this acceptable? I am glad everyone can level straight forward now with no issues of other players but isn't this the whole point of a MMORPG.
I wanna see people everywhere i go and if the realm is split into 12 other realms then there is no way you even see 10% of your actual Realm population.

How are people supporting this nonsense feature in WoW? This only makes your realm appear more dead then it actually is.

And this is a real issue not only in classic but also retail.

This is like saying "Different servers have no place in a MMORPG!"

You're high as fuck. Separate servers and separate layering are simply a requirement of populated MMORPGs and always have been, and always will be. Layering is no different from a different server, except you can still play with people from different layers if you just party up.

If anything, layering is one step closer to a truly persistent online world. Its certainly a lot closer than different servers.

[TbouncerT]

...WoW can't handle truly massive events...

I mean really, what game can handle massive events like AQ?

[InfiniteCharger]

The point is that layering is not fixing the problem of server populations and in some cases making it worse.
It doesn't stop queues on mega servers. It doesn't stop large pops in one area tagging mobs and it doesn't stop dead servers.
Technically the design of classic servers being separated by expansion almost guarantees dead servers at some point.\
So I am not sure how anyone can argue that this is "fixing" anything. And if anything that would argue for leaving the system the way it was in vanilla.

[Relapses]

The point is that layering is not fixing the problem of server populations and in some cases making it worse.
It doesn't stop queues on mega servers.

Blizzard doesn't want megaservers. Players want megaservers. Blizzard is doing everything in their power to get people off of the three or four consolidated population hubs. This is achieved through FCMs and other incentives. Recently, they actually turned off the ability to roll new characters on certain realms to help stave off the population issues. In the US they've opened up a brand new server specifically for players from the most populated realms move their toons to so they can have their friends play with them.

That said, it is demonstrably false to say that layering is not helping with server queues as this technology is part of the reason Blizzard is able to have servers many magnitudes larger than they were in OG Classic.

It doesn't stop large pops in one area tagging mobs and it doesn't stop dead servers.

So rather than having 20 people try to tag a mob you think it'd be better if 200 people were trying to tag the mob? Like, what the fuck my guy?

And of course it doesn't stop dead servers. It isn't meant to stop dead servers. CRZ and sharding is what "stops" dead servers and Blizzard clearly has no interest in introducing that tech to Classic.

Technically the design of classic servers being separated by expansion almost guarantees dead servers at some point.

As far as I know, there's only Season of Mastery right now and that's barely played. Almost all Classic players are playing on the progressive servers. But population expansion and contrition is a natural for any MMO, I don't know why you expect Blizzard to be able to solve a largely social problem.

So I am not sure how anyone can argue that this is "fixing" anything. And if anything that would argue for leaving the system the way it was in vanilla.

So because you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how the system works, what it's intended to do and how it's intended to be used, you want the game to be demonstrably worse for a vast majority of the playerbase? If this isn't the absolute definition of entitlement, I don't know what is.

[Eosia]

Layering in my opinion does NOT belong inside a MMORPG. It's already in the name: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Yesterday there were 12 layers on classic server, 12.

How is this acceptable? I am glad everyone can level straight forward now with no issues of other players but isn't this the whole point of a MMORPG.
I wanna see people everywhere i go and if the realm is split into 12 other realms then there is no way you even see 10% of your actual Realm population.

How are people supporting this nonsense feature in WoW? This only makes your realm appear more dead then it actually is.

And this is a real issue not only in classic but also retail.

It's a serve capacity/stability system. Period. So what if there were 12 layers? That means 1100% more people were able to play the game and have the server be fine versus rotting in queues and stuttering/disconnecting.

[SL1200]

If immersion is important, layering sucks.

[Sinyc]

Layering in my opinion does NOT belong inside a MMORPG. It's already in the name: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Yesterday there were 12 layers on classic server, 12.

How is this acceptable? I am glad everyone can level straight forward now with no issues of other players but isn't this the whole point of a MMORPG.
I wanna see people everywhere i go and if the realm is split into 12 other realms then there is no way you even see 10% of your actual Realm population.

How are people supporting this nonsense feature in WoW? This only makes your realm appear more dead then it actually is.

And this is a real issue not only in classic but also retail.

By your logic should highways all be one lane so you can "see everyone"? It's not fair that the fast lane passes you in the clogged lane right????

Like it or not but layering allows all (well mostly) the people that want to play a chance to play without having to sit in a queue or be stuck in a lagfest unable to do anything.

[Goat7]

One day when quantum computing and AI are being used by the servers your wish may come true. Till then, no. It would just be a giant lag fest with thousands of people fighting over mobs.

Did you play in BFA in Nazjatar zone? Literally un playable on Area-52 server and that was with layering.

[Utrrabbit]

Layering and cross realm ruined the game. Change my mind.

You're wrong about everything. Change my mind.

- - - Updated - - -

The OP would rather have 10fps while 10k people are in org/questing.

The OP is not that bright.

[Schmilblick]

Layering and cross realm ruined the game. Change my mind.

Nope, stay dumb.

[chiddie]

Layering in my opinion does NOT belong inside a MMORPG. It's already in the name: Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.
Yesterday there were 12 layers on classic server, 12.

How is this acceptable? I am glad everyone can level straight forward now with no issues of other players but isn't this the whole point of a MMORPG.
I wanna see people everywhere i go and if the realm is split into 12 other realms then there is no way you even see 10% of your actual Realm population.

How are people supporting this nonsense feature in WoW? This only makes your realm appear more dead then it actually is.

And this is a real issue not only in classic but also retail.

I would second that if only 99% of quests wouldn’t involve killing mobs and looting something from them.

I am seriously thinking to postpone playing DF for about a month so that leveling zones will be almost empty.

[Relapses]

I would second that if only 99% of quests wouldn’t involve killing mobs and looting something from them.

I am seriously thinking to postpone playing DF for about a month so that leveling zones will be almost empty.

...wha? This is barely an issue on retail where sharding and CRZ prevent that from being a thing. Outside of server queues I've never really experienced what you're describing here.

[OMGTwitchTV]

I wanna see people everywhere i go and if the realm is split into 12 other realms then there is no way you even see 10% of your actual Realm population.

How are people supporting this nonsense feature in WoW?

Without it, your realm, and every other realm, save for maybe 4 would be Low-Medium pop servers and others, like yourself, would only join high pops. So Blizz layers then and then labels them as Med - High pop to get people to go there even though the numbers are built on 4-5 servers, and then use the same "Status" for all 5, when in fact, you have simply combined 5 realms and lied about their actual population. Honestly, they should have done what Star Wars: the Old Republic did which was shove everyone into 5 realms, whichever closely resembled their original and just offered 5 high pop realms then open new realms for new accounts only.

Since you can join anyone's party, on any realm, the only real inconvenience is your friend giving you gold. This could also be solved by stealing another idea from SWTOR which was the legacy bank, where your Medivh character could take money out of your BOA bank that your Proudmoore character put in. Then make a lvl 1, head to town, share with them, and log out. We're still using 2004 mentalities 18 years later, and some of them just don't work in today's MMO space.

[MoanaLisa]

Again, this wasn't a problem originally, why is it suddenly a problem today?

Dead servers in the past were a plague for both Blizzard and most players. So too, were realms that were severely overloaded leading to long queues for months at a time and laggy play. It is arguably a better solution in 2022 with a mix of hardware and cloud technologies to put people in a flexible virtual space to play with other people in an MMO title.

[chiddie]

...wha? This is barely an issue on retail where sharding and CRZ prevent that from being a thing. Outside of server queues I've never really experienced what you're describing here.

Not worth the “risk”. Also I’m basically treating WoW as a single player game since Pandaria, the less players I see around the better it is. I’m not even in a hurry since end game rewards will be tied to grouped content as usual.

[Gimlix]

You're wrong about everything. Change my mind.

- - - Updated - - -

The OP would rather have 10fps while 10k people are in org/questing.

The OP is not that bright.

I rather have a world that is overcrowded that feels like im actually experiencing a magical world that WoW once fell like.
I think most of you forgot how it feels like walking into areas that is populated that you actually feel part of an alive world.

Why you think FF14 is considered so popular atm? Because it's hell crowded anywhere. You can enjoy some actually chilling in the areas because other people are chilling too. But most of you in here rather wanna do non stop raiding and other instance content instead of enjoying the open world that WoW used to offer too.

[Thirtyrock]

I rather have a world that is overcrowded that feels like im actually experiencing a magical world that WoW once fell like.
I think most of you forgot how it feels like walking into areas that is populated that you actually feel part of an alive world.

Why you think FF14 is considered so popular atm? Because it's hell crowded anywhere. You can enjoy some actually chilling in the areas because other people are chilling too. But most of you in here rather wanna do non stop raiding and other instance content instead of enjoying the open world that WoW used to offer too.

This is classic post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. FF14 is popular but unless you have hard data on WHY it's popular, you're just picking your pet theory and promoting it as fact.

I promise, if I have to go back to waiting to kill things so I can complete a quest, I'll find another game to play. I played during wrath, cata, mop, so I watched them implement a lot of these tools over time. It made the game MUCH more enjoyable for me. Changes from LFR/LFD to cross server grouping to cross faction grouping to shared mob tagging have all made the game more fun for me.

I see people constantly while questing in current expansion/end game content (though often leveling content is more or less empty). I almost always get help from other players when going against rares/elites. I just don't see what you're seeing which makes me think that 1) you're dramatically exaggerating the scope of the problem or 2) you're really just trolling on this so you can have something to bitch about.

[Gimlix]

This is classic post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. FF14 is popular but unless you have hard data on WHY it's popular, you're just picking your pet theory and promoting it as fact.

I promise, if I have to go back to waiting to kill things so I can complete a quest, I'll find another game to play. I played during wrath, cata, mop, so I watched them implement a lot of these tools over time. It made the game MUCH more enjoyable for me. Changes from LFR/LFD to cross server grouping to cross faction grouping to shared mob tagging have all made the game more fun for me.

I see people constantly while questing in current expansion/end game content (though often leveling content is more or less empty). I almost always get help from other players when going against rares/elites. I just don't see what you're seeing which makes me think that 1) you're dramatically exaggerating the scope of the problem or 2) you're really just trolling on this so you can have something to bitch about.

Very obvious why.. One has a feeling you live in an open alive world with thousands of players and one has so many layering that even tho its the biggest MMORPG today it feels more dead then the other one.

[kenn9530]

what ruined wow was wasn't layering it was people being able to turn of pvp on pvp servers

WoW is mostly a PvE game, PvP is a small portion of gameplay so no it has no effect on the game, the only thing that affects WoW is its age.