Do you guys think it's okay for people to blame Queen for the British Empire's past?

[OwenBurton]

I'm not sure if most people here are really aware, but in the recent week or so, there's been a massive debate over the British Queen's passing and her family's relation to the purported crimes and misdeeds of the British monarchy in relation to the British Empire and its subjugation of peoples in Asia and Africa. On social media especially, the debate has been extremely intense. For example, there was even a professor from an American college who stated that she wished Elizabeth would die an excruciating death hours before her passing because of what she seemingly represented, and what her country did to others.

https://news.yahoo.com/professor-cau...162849586.html
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...british-empire

I'm just wondering what most people here honestly thought about this whole thing.

I respect the British people and culture, but I've never been interested in the British monarchy particularly, and didn't much understand the entire media obsession over the Royal Family, beautiful and energetic Kate might have admittedly been. Personally, I didn't really "love" Queen Elizabeth, nor did I necessarily hate her, she just seemed like an old British woman with a hat who made public appearances once in a while. I do hope she rests in peace, and I offer my full condolences to the British people on this forum if they are upset or yet in mourning, but sadly, on the other hand, peace is something this world has lacked for a long while now.

[Pannonian]

Did she benefit from the history of her family?

If so, did she apologize and at least starting to give back to the people her family stole from?

They still have their status and power from centuries of plundering the planet - as long as they're fine with it, i'm fine with calling them names.

Not a big fan of public piety, if she is the figure head of an inhumane system, why should i feign a false sense of piety?

You should only speak good about the dead. The queen is dead. Good. One person who's whole prerogative is that they're better than the rest? Good riddance.

[lockybalboa]

She's been reaally mean to forum favorite Meghan Markle that's all that matters

[PC2]

Nah I think you can only blame her for her choices.

For example, there was even a professor from an American college who stated that she wished Elizabeth would die an excruciating death hours before her passing

It looks like Twitter already removed her original tweet, which is lame because we should be engaging with people's thoughts and debating their rationality.

I'm just wondering what most people here honestly thought about this whole thing.

My thoughts:
-I don't feel sad because Queen Elizabeth had a good and long life. I think humanity should mainly focus on curing ageing/death instead of mourning the dead or being angry at a dead person. We should channel our energy in a productive manner.

-As far as monarchy in general and their royal assets I've got no problem with any of it as long they don't actually hold the political power of a monarch(IOW; non-democratic). For example let's say King Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia gave up his political power, slowly transitioned the country to a democracy, and gave up any support for terrorism, then I'd have no problem with him anymore. He could just keep his castles and a billion dollars in wealth, or whatever the citizens want.

-History is history, the world has no other choice other than to start from the present and improve from where we are at now.

-In 2022 royal stuff in Europe kind of reminds me of LARPing which is a lot of fun, imo.

[Nymrohd]

-In 2022 royal stuff in Europe kind of reminds me of LARPing which is a lot of fun, imo.

Must be very fun indeed for people in starving countries to see the pomp with which we celebrate royal fortunes build on their ancestors' wealth and graves.

[Draco-Onis]

The royal family still holds a lot of assets that were stolen from other countries the literal crown jewels don't belong to them. If they had bothered to return just even that as a gesture of good will perhaps people wouldn't be so hostile towards them. The UK stole trillions of dollars worth of wealth from these countries it would be insane if they weren't pissed.

[PC2]

The royal family still holds a lot of assets that were stolen from other countries the literal crown jewels don't belong to them. If they had bothered to return just even that as a gesture of good will perhaps people wouldn't be so hostile towards them. The UK stole trillions of dollars worth of wealth from these countries it would be insane if they weren't pissed.

Okay those are negatives but what about the positives? Great Britain, led by its elites, pioneered science and the industrial revolution which is the largest source of progress to ever occur in human history... Also they were among the first peoples to develop democracy to maturity. So that trumps everything else, or at least cancels out the negatives.

[Skulltaker]

Okay those are negatives but what about the positives? Great Britain, led by its elites, pioneered science and the industrial revolution which is the largest source of progress to ever occur in human history... Also they were among the first peoples to develop democracy to maturity. So that trumps everything else, or at least cancels out the negatives.

No, they didn't; no, they weren't; and most of all, no, it doesn't.

[Nymrohd]

Okay those are negatives but what about the positives? Great Britain, led by its elites, pioneered science and the industrial revolution which is the largest source of progress to ever occur in human history... Also they were among the first peoples to develop democracy to maturity. So that trumps everything else, or at least cancels out the negatives.

Yeah nothing they did can make up for the Opium wars. But if we actually start talking history it will be hard to not venture into nation bashing.

[Draco-Onis]

Okay those are negatives but what about the positives? Great Britain, led by its elites, pioneered science and the industrial revolution which is the largest source of progress to ever occur in human history... Also they were among the first peoples to develop democracy to maturity. So that trumps everything else, or at least cancels out the negatives.

Read a history book the concept of democracy predates Great Britain by a few centuries (Athens ringing any bells). There's nothing you have said here that makes sense or is historically accurate. If you aren't going to read books at least watch some youtube videos to educate yourself. A lot of "innovations" from countries like Great Britain were outright stolen from their colonies and built on their backs literally.

[Dezerte]

Yes, but within reason. Some of the blame I can understand, some I can't. I'm also not super familiar with the history of the monarchy in the UK, the exact details of who did what and what the effects were.

[Poopymonster]

The royal family still holds a lot of assets that were stolen from other countries the literal crown jewels don't belong to them. If they had bothered to return just even that as a gesture of good will perhaps people wouldn't be so hostile towards them. The UK stole trillions of dollars worth of wealth from these countries it would be insane if they weren't pissed.

Reminds me of a joke.
What sounds like it should be British but isn't?
The contents of British Museums.

[dribbles]

No. Sons or daughters should not inherit the sins of their Father or Mother, and you cannot judge the actions and deeds from ancient times or a Century ago to the standards of today. To the people posting here, expecting reparations and singling out the current British monarchy as the only baddies from the past I would say, with just one of many possible examples, you go first.

The King whose rule killed as many as 10 million Africans.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-53017188

How far do you want to go back? The history of europe and all the world until very recently is a bloody mess, no country escapes untouched innocent and allegation free. We the British were not the first but one of many, and I've got a bit of beef with the Romans from a couple of millenia ago, not to mention Hitler more recently, that needs settlement...

The past is the past, and the modern British monarchy of today bears no resemblance and possesses none of the power that all of European royalty abused and held a century or more ago. So no the current incumbents or recently deceased should not bear any responsibility for the actions of their ancestors. It is thanks to Queen Elizabeth we still have a serving and modernised monarchy supported by billions of people, inside and outside of her commonwealth, from around the world.

Still not convinced? Have a trawl through your own personal ancestry and go a couple of centuries back, you might be surprised at what your forefathers got up to. Do you now owe anything to anyone? Thought not.

[Draco-Onis]

No. Sons or daughters should not inherit the sins of their Father or Mother, and you cannot judge the actions and deeds from ancient times or a Century ago to the standards of today.

You literally are parading the loot you stole from other countries in museums despite several request to send it back and your royal family wears it proudly. You can argue about reparations but the very least you can do is return the shit that was stolen, if you parade in the car your parents stole you are just as guilty.

[jonnysensible]

who has to look back to history when you can look back a few years and see this vile woman pay her sons bills for raping trafficked women with his pedophile friend. Vile nonce family.

Not to mention her other son the new king likes them young as well, 29 chasing after a 16 year old.

[zealo]

That hinges an absolute ton on what you mean with "British Empire's past".

The Empire were already on it's way out when Elizabeth were crowned Queen in 1952, and things like looted treasures now kept in museums is only the tip of the iceberg of British imperialism.

[Pann]

No. The Empire was already in the process of falling apart when Elizabeth took the thrown and she was instrumental in turning what was left of the Empire into the Commonwealth, where nations were equal and free to join or leave as they please. The fact that there is no considerable doubt as to the future of the Commonwealth is a testament to her devotion to it and the respect she earned from its member nations.

[Kathandira]

Did she benefit from the history of her family?

If so, did she apologize and at least starting to give back to the people her family stole from?

They still have their status and power from centuries of plundering the planet - as long as they're fine with it, i'm fine with calling them names.

Yup. That basically says it all.

[dribbles]

who has to look back to history when you can look back a few years and see this vile woman pay her sons bills for raping trafficked women with his pedophile friend. Vile nonce family.

Not to mention her other son the new king likes them young as well, 29 chasing after a 16 year old.

Edgy online opinions are easy. But dare you say it in the real world?

https://twitter.com/chrismarshll/sta...23294716829700

Well dare you? Plenty of opportunity over the next few days, I'd say now is not quite the right time. But up to you...

[MCMLXXXII]

Edgy online opinions are easy.

You should know