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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Legion was a great expansion for anybody who wasn't trying to be optimize their character like they had done since Vanilla-WoD.

    Anybody who was looking for BiS lists, or at least trying to stay relatively competitive with other players was in for a nightmare of a time.

    Two shit legendary items on your first character? Might as well reroll, cuz you aren't getting a third until the Karazhan patch.

    Class balance and design on release was pretty awful, then it got better, then it got worse (IMO).

    Legion was absolutely the beginning of the end of my enjoyment of retail WoW entirely for me. Chores to stay relevant, random loot drops... I really did not have a good time. Not to mention a lot of the point of borrowed power in the first place was to introduce new mechanics and ideas that may or may not be everybody's cup of tea, but they would be LIMITED and not show up constantly or even ever again potentially...

    ...except then they did show up constantly and became part of a lot of classes' base identity. Chains of Ice Cold Heart buff, Obliterate having a random chance to refund runes, consuming Hot Streak has a chance to make your next non-instant Pyroblast deal more damage... Unholy is finally getting away from all the, "Death Coil reduces the CD on these cooldown abilities" that made the spec rather annoying to play, but they still are plagued with all the borrowed power, "this cooldown empowers this other cooldown and makes it stronger, so figure out the correct order on all these "
    yup and to be honest im still salty how they messed up hunters and combat rogues so badly in legion.

  2. #182
    High Overlord zhorteye's Avatar
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    Personally, the only things i dont really want is the Talent rework and the old world revamp.. the rest of the expansion was fine for me.
    that being said..

    my wish is for blizzard to take the good things (class design, Dungeon & Raid difficulty design, Professions, Leveling speed, guild advancements etc) and bring it into a different direction that allows for use in the current world, maybe 1-2 new zones, rather than having to rework all the old zones, and then take the game in a different direction that what retail has done and stick to the spirit of what has made classic, Classic, so far.

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    Title says it all, really.

    Personally, aside from removing LFD, I wouldnt change much.
    I still don't get this dumb fuck take of removing LFD. Literally the only argument at all is that it lessens social interactions but wtf social interactions are you really having outside spamming trade chat for a group, spamming party chat for a summon, not talking the entire dungeon then leaving?

  4. #184
    Remove sharding/Cross realm
    Remove LFD
    Keep dungeons on the difficulty it had at launch
    Redo the world revamp with less obvious pop culture reference, less hand-holding / streamlined story
    Redo the last raid

  5. #185
    i don't think i would play cata classic at all. it removes a lot of content and changes it for content that I can play right now on retail.

  6. #186
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Comparing where TBC and WotLK were to what Cata was, I don't think anything really. I don't remember how significant Reforging was and its impact on the game; clearly it was negative enough for Blizzard to eventually remove it. It has been so long I don't really remember its overall impact and if the stats you got from Reforging all pieces of gear were negligible or not.


    Seeing random dungeon finder being removed in WotLK Classic is a huge blow, and given how dungeons were (and how many were added post launch) Cata was back then I can imagine it feeling worse especially on lower population servers. If we do get Cataclysm Classic I do hope there will be RDF.


    That's pretty much what I want: RDF in Cataclysm Classic. Also... remove Dragon Soul.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2022-09-17 at 01:44 PM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Makaloff View Post
    yup and to be honest im still salty how they messed up hunters and combat rogues so badly in legion.
    I wouldn't have minded hunters if they had simply given them a fourth spec.

    I liked the idea of a melee hunter build that incorporated the old old OLD hunter class design.

    Keep old Survival as like a Dark Ranger or some kind of magical ranger, new Survival would be melee, Marksman would be physical damage mostly still.

    I'm sure people wouldn't have minded it as much if they just did that, but they replaced Survival and semi sorta combined it with Marksman.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    Comparing where TBC and WotLK were to what Cata was, I don't think anything really. I don't remember how significant Reforging was and its impact on the game; clearly it was negative enough for Blizzard to eventually remove it. It has been so long I don't really remember its overall impact and if the stats you got from Reforging all pieces of gear were negligible or not.


    Seeing random dungeon finder being removed in WotLK Classic is a huge blow, and given how dungeons were (and how many were added post launch) Cata was back then I can imagine it feeling worse especially on lower population servers. If we do get Cataclysm Classic I do hope there will be RDF.


    That's pretty much what I want: RDF in Cataclysm Classic. Also... remove Dragon Soul.

    Reforging seems like it was really created as a reason to justify having less overall sources of raid gear drop essentially.

    The number of bosses past the first raid tier were significantly lower than previous tiers, so every boss would need to be crammed with more loot to compensate.

    I dunno, the whole mechanic seemed unnecessary and dumb to me. Plus it became a pain in the ass to balance with hit and expertise caps...

    Despite saying all that, though, I do still point out the fact that their stated reason for removing reforging made ZERO sense.
    "It wasn't fun having to simulate reforging your gear to perfectly balance the hit and expertise caps, so we removed it. Also, we removed hit and expertise."

    ??? LOL

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    I dunno, the whole mechanic seemed unnecessary and dumb to me. Plus it became a pain in the ass to balance with hit and expertise caps...
    The entire issue could've been largely avoided by just putting enough Hit / Expertise on items that you always end up at the exact cap.
    So that you either have .5% or 1% Hit on an item, thus making it very easy to figure out which items you have to wear to get capped.

    Instead, they applied the same Rating system to Hit as well and now in both TBC and Wotlk you had to juggle around 16.9% or 17.1% hit - so much fun.

  9. #189
    Bloodsail Admiral DrIvoRobotnik's Avatar
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    Thrall not suddenly becoming completely and utterly antithetical to his character and everything he did up until that point.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by varren View Post
    Love the people gatekeeping the term "Classic". All it is is Blizzard's way of saying "re release of old expansion". Nothing more than that.
    Except that is was a community concept long before Blizzard finally caved and created Classic.

    It definitely never meant Cataclysm and beyond.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The entire issue could've been largely avoided by just putting enough Hit / Expertise on items that you always end up at the exact cap.
    So that you either have .5% or 1% Hit on an item, thus making it very easy to figure out which items you have to wear to get capped.

    Instead, they applied the same Rating system to Hit as well and now in both TBC and Wotlk you had to juggle around 16.9% or 17.1% hit - so much fun.
    I actually also agree with this.

    Hit and expertise should have definitely been a flat percentage. It would be easy to reconcile the issue of "This item might be BiS later"

    If something has 14 crit rating, 1% hit, and 23 str in Classic versus an item that has 20 crit rating, 1% hit, and 45 str in TBC... I mean... that's not too hard to figure out.

  12. #192
    Why are people acting like Cata was the birth of modern WoW? WotLK was the birth of modorn WoW, not Cata. If anything, Cata was just a more streamlined version of what WotLK started.

    WotLK has NOTHING to do with Classic and TBC, while WotLK and Cata are objectively the two expansions that have the most in common. They have the same raid structure, the same reward system, classes are an obvious continuation of their WotLK contersparts for the better (MM Hunters and Paladins are the two exceptions). You don't find the same kind of overlap in terms of how the game is played between any other expansions.


    There's a very special kind of irony going around with people happily playing WotLK (and disliking Classic/TBC), while at the same time shitting on Cata for being too modern.
    Last edited by ThrashMetalFtw; 2022-09-18 at 03:20 PM.
    They're (short for They are) describes a group of people. "They're/They are a nice bunch of guys." Their indicates that something belongs/is related to a group of people. "Their car was all out of fuel." There refers to a location. "Let's set up camp over there." There is also no such thing as "could/should OF". The correct way is: Could/should'VE, or could/should HAVE.
    Holyfury armory

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by ThrashMetalFtw View Post
    Why are people acting like Cata was the birth of modern WoW? WotLK was the birth of modorn WoW, not Cata. If anything, Cata was just a more streamlined version of what WotLK started.

    *some snips*

    There's a very special kind of irony going around with people happily playing WotLK (and disliking Classic/TBC), while at the same time shitting on Cata for being too modern.
    I actually also agree with this as well.

    Wrath, while beloved by many and still probably my favorite expansion of all time, is not immune to criticism.

    Wrath was essentially my first "real" expansion. When WoW launched, I was only 10 years old. I didn't understand the game. My only other MMO was RuneScape, and that game made a lot more "sense" to me.
    I didn't realize that there were end game raids and things. I didn't realize it even throughout BC.

    In actual Vanilla WoW, I picked what is undoubtedly the absolute worst class to level in Warrior. I wish Blizzard hadn't changed the talent trees and the old world, because I would LOVE to see what kind of absolutely stupid talent build I chose back then. I only managed to get to level 22-24ish (I also can't even check because of the level squish) but I know I was in Ashenvale.

    Then I pmuch quit until TBC came out. I thought Blood Elves were super cool, so I made a paladin. Got him to 24 and then quit again. LOL

    BUT Wrath released with Death Knights, and I absolutely HAD to play one. I leveled like a madman to make one. The only reason I ended up hitting max level was because I thought to myself, "Well, I've already gotten through the first 58 levels. I'm like 22 levels away now. Can't be that bad," not realizing that 60-70 and 70-80 were designed to take about as long as 1-60 did.

    From there, I cleared almost all the content in Wrath and then went on to continue raiding all through Legion clearing Heroic and then Mythic difficulty consistently when Mythic became the new Heroic.


    That story isn't super relevant, but I basically wanted to explain my experience and why I didn't realize at the time what Wrath was really doing.
    Now, having played through Classic and TBC Classic, the comparisons are obvious to me.

    I'd still say it's my favorite expansion, but I have this hesitancy. Instead of being wholly excited for Wrath, my first feeling the day before the prepatch was, "Oh man, we're losing a lot of that Vanilla feel with this one, huh?"

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Perkunas View Post
    Man fuck the Legendary for all attitude. Hated that shit in MOP and beyond.
    Literally one of the worst things they've ever done in the game. Thats where all of these mindless grinds started. Remember the good old days when you could just rock up to raid and get your gear/power there? Ahhhh good times.

    I fucking HATED the legendary in MoP, literally made me quit. Came back late and even though I raided mythic and had super high damage, AND I played the class they didnt have just so we could fill that requirement (mage), they wouldnt let me raid for like 8 weeks until I had gotten the cloak (and that was WITH the catch-up mechanic). Such a fucking braindead design honestly. Eventually quit over it. Its like ive got that urge to play WoW so bad, oh no you need to log in every week to do this boring ass LFR shit for 8 fucking weeks first. Fuck off, all the urge completely gone by then.

  15. #195
    Stood in the Fire Sezerek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo94 View Post
    I fucking HATED the legendary in MoP, literally made me quit. Came back late and even though I raided mythic and had super high damage,
    Mythic just came out with the WoD prepatch, so I guess you mean heroic?

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by NezihYusuf View Post
    What Cata did, changed the world map (a bit, arguable). Gave us Deathwing content. Maybe we got some new nodes to talents along with it upon Wrath.
    Nah, Cata changed talents too. Sort of the first iteration of the shitty MOP+ talent system. You had to “select” a spec at level 10 and then you got a talent point every second level, having the number of points in total. You also couldn’t spend points outside your selected spec until you’d put 31 talents (i.e gone all the way to the end) of your selected spec. It was miserable.

  17. #197
    Cata isnt classic, thats the problem, they changed the talent trees, revamped the world, altered alot of the game.

    Once you get past Wrath there is no more classic, and MoP onwards is pretty much current wow.

  18. #198
    Changes I would make :

    1. (Cosmetic Only) Add Dark Iron and Dragonmaw skins. This lore-friendly and is a small additional that would change something new about Cata

    2. CM for all Heroics - I think this would be a good way to inject some longevity into Cata Heroics. Especially if they are the un-nerfed version people seem to place on a pedestal. Add some unique transmogs as a reward. I think it could definitely be one of the most prestigious rewards in WoW history if done right

    3. Address the issues with DS. Perhaps change some encounters especially Spine + Madness. Maybe add a human deathwing boss encounter.

    4. Fundamentally change Mastery. There should be no forced going into 1 tree. Instead have mastery function as an incremental buff that increases with each point spent in a specific tree

    5. No LFR or LFD - Nothing against these features but Classic is essentially moving towards an alternate version of the game and this just fits the vision

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by Z3ROR View Post
    I would keep the old world and add in the Caverns of Time a Classic exclusive Cataclysm-Hub to all Cataclysm content (zones, dungeons, etc..). In all capitals (at least Stormwind/Ironforge and Orgrimmar/Undercity) an embassy of the Bronze Dragonflight are added with a teleport to Caverns of Time to access this Cataclysm-Hub.

    Excluded from the cataclysm-Hub will be the Worgen/Goblin starter zone. A new Bronze Dragonflight NPC at the closed gate of Gilneas can bring an Alliance player (back) into Gilneas. Horde doesn't get a way back to Kezan/Lost Isles, cause they can't on live WoW either.

    Leveling zones would be instanced and you cannot cross the border. All quests, content that leads to places only present in the new world are either relocated (or removed if relocation is not an option).
    This is literally the opposite of the Classic philosophy.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Hctaz View Post
    Despite saying all that, though, I do still point out the fact that their stated reason for removing reforging made ZERO sense.
    "It wasn't fun having to simulate reforging your gear to perfectly balance the hit and expertise caps, so we removed it. Also, we removed hit and expertise."

    ??? LOL
    hahaha yeah I remember that. It made literally no sense.

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