Cataclysm Classic - What changes would you want?

[3DTyrant]

I liked Cata Heroics, however even I can admit week 1 pre-nerf they were brutal to say the least.
Going from WotlK to the Heroic Deadmines gauntlet run was intense.
Tier 11 and 12 were quite excellent. I wouldn't even have minded LFR much as a system, besides the fact I disliked Dragon Soul.

If we got Cata Classic with extended WotlK talents/glyphs and rework half of the Dragon Soul raid I'd honestly give it a shot.
Hunters changing from Mana to Focus never bothered me, although I've never been a fan of Holy Power, so you could say a number of basic class changes weren't liked.
World revamp is less of an issue to me since I focus on end game and those zones were new.

I agree they were brutal pre-nerf, but I think (speaking for myself at least) that's why I liked them, they weren't a walk in the park in and out 10 min adventure type of deal. Was it a pain in the ass? Sure, but there was also a sense of satisfaction of finally completing the dungeon.

[VinceVega]

- More Classes received baseline interrupts (Pala, Feral Druid)
- More Classes received a stun (Arms Warrior)
- Revamped Dispels (Every Healer can now dispel magic, as opposed to every Priest and Pala)
- Pallies gained a raid heal (well, two, Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn)
- A ton of Raid cooldowns were added (Power Word Barrier, Spirit Link Totem, Tree of life)
- Every Healer now uses Spirit (previously only Priest and Druid had some use for Spirit)
- Paladin received Holy Power (System that's very similiar to Combo points, alongside spells that are awfully similiar to Slice and Dice / Savage Roar)

There's probably some things i'm forgetting about, but i think it's fair to say that Cata had more than just Time Warp as "homogenization".

Not sure if Cata was the expansion that homogenized classes far more than other expansions (both TBC and Wotlk also had their fair share) but i don't think it's unfair to say that Cata can be considered a tipping point when it comes to homogenization.

I think it's always important to keep in mind that Vanilla Class design wasn't centered around raiding but rather leveling the character.
If you leveled as Mage or Warlock and exclusively pressed Frostbolt or Shadowbolt, you most certainly did something wrong.

Bringing up rotations is simply faulty because the concept just didn't exist back then.

No idea why people are that adamant about new player models, it's not like they are super visible when they're covered in armor.

Disregarding that it looks awful when you have super high res models covered in pixaleted armor, keeping the quality of art consistent is pretty important in my view.
That's why a lot of people struggle to use any transmog before WoD on Retail nowadays, because the difference in quality stands out quite a lot.

Point is, the faces don't really stand out when you normally play the game, with updated models, they almost certainly will stand out.

I am talking about everything not just player modles. And cata is not extremly pixalated anymore.

[Z3ROR]

I would keep the old world and add in the Caverns of Time a Classic exclusive Cataclysm-Hub to all Cataclysm content (zones, dungeons, etc..). In all capitals (at least Stormwind/Ironforge and Orgrimmar/Undercity) an embassy of the Bronze Dragonflight are added with a teleport to Caverns of Time to access this Cataclysm-Hub.

Excluded from the cataclysm-Hub will be the Worgen/Goblin starter zone. A new Bronze Dragonflight NPC at the closed gate of Gilneas can bring an Alliance player (back) into Gilneas. Horde doesn't get a way back to Kezan/Lost Isles, cause they can't on live WoW either.

Leveling zones would be instanced and you cannot cross the border. All quests, content that leads to places only present in the new world are either relocated (or removed if relocation is not an option).

[anon5123]

Cata is not "classic". It's when the game stopped being "old WoW" and started being "new WoW".

But you can bet your ass Blizzard will try and do it anyway because free money from all the retail tourists that classic has attracted.

[ArenaDk]

You have been told many, many times why it stopped being classic with Cata. You are deliberately obtuse and facetious for the sake of it. The guy you responded to here, explained to you again, and again you asked why as if he hadn't.

If you love WoD, go play it, just log into retail and go to Draenor.

Its beautiful how the classic community shows its toxic face everytime when they can.

Why didnt you remove all spells but frostbolt and went to molten core at 60 , no need for classic servers lmao.

And no , buzzwords are not a reason.

I can say vaniila isnt classic cause : classes , pvp , cooking

did i explain anything ? no , but by your logic thats enough

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- More Classes received baseline interrupts (Pala, Feral Druid)
- More Classes received a stun (Arms Warrior)
- Revamped Dispels (Every Healer can now dispel magic, as opposed to every Priest and Pala)
- Pallies gained a raid heal (well, two, Holy Radiance and Light of Dawn)
- A ton of Raid cooldowns were added (Power Word Barrier, Spirit Link Totem, Tree of life)
- Every Healer now uses Spirit (previously only Priest and Druid had some use for Spirit)
- Paladin received Holy Power (System that's very similiar to Combo points, alongside spells that are awfully similiar to Slice and Dice / Savage Roar)

There's probably some things i'm forgetting about, but i think it's fair to say that Cata had more than just Time Warp as "homogenization".

Not sure if Cata was the expansion that homogenized classes far more than other expansions (both TBC and Wotlk also had their fair share) but i don't think it's unfair to say that Cata can be considered a tipping point when it comes to homogenization.

I think it's always important to keep in mind that Vanilla Class design wasn't centered around raiding but rather leveling the character.
If you leveled as Mage or Warlock and exclusively pressed Frostbolt or Shadowbolt, you most certainly did something wrong.

Bringing up rotations is simply faulty because the concept just didn't exist back then.

No idea why people are that adamant about new player models, it's not like they are super visible when they're covered in armor.

Disregarding that it looks awful when you have super high res models covered in pixaleted armor, keeping the quality of art consistent is pretty important in my view.
That's why a lot of people struggle to use any transmog before WoD on Retail nowadays, because the difference in quality stands out quite a lot.

Point is, the faces don't really stand out when you normally play the game, with updated models, they almost certainly will stand out.

you just proofed my point, vanilla was much different to the following to the point woltk is closer to cata then vanilla. which is why including woltk as classic and not cata makes no sense if woltk is more similiae to cata in playstyle and design

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Cata is not "classic". It's when the game stopped being "old WoW" and started being "new WoW".

But you can bet your ass Blizzard will try and do it anyway because free money from all the retail tourists that classic has attracted.

New wow started in tbc not cata lmao

[deniter]

What changes would i want? I'd like to remove WoW:Cataclysm altogether from the history of gaming and treat the whole idea as a bad dream or a vision of a trainee designer that would have been shoveled up to where sun never shines by the more experienced co-workers.

There's nothing, nothing, in Cataclysm i would consider an improvement to even WotLK. World of Warcraft really jumped the shark upon the release of this so-called expansion.

[Heavens Night]

Its beautiful how the classic community shows its toxic face everytime when they can.

Why didnt you remove all spells but frostbolt and went to molten core at 60 , no need for classic servers lmao.

And no , buzzwords are not a reason.

I can say vaniila isnt classic cause : classes , pvp , cooking

did i explain anything ? no , but by your logic thats enough

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you just proofed my point, vanilla was much different to the following to the point woltk is closer to cata then vanilla. which is why including woltk as classic and not cata makes no sense if woltk is more similiae to cata in playstyle and design

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New wow started in tbc not cata lmao

I realise you don't like being called out for being a troll. Calling somebody a "toxic community" for doing that is rather telling. This also reveals your absolute bias on the matter. You are not here for discussion you are here to create division.

Well done you! Have a great day.

[Kralljin]

I am talking about everything not just player modles. And cata is not extremly pixalated anymore.

Problem remains that not every model existing in Cata is updated.

This simply results in this weird mesh of model that you have when you enter old raids such as MC, where some Trash mobs have super high res models whereas you can count the pixels on some unique boss models.

you just proofed my point, vanilla was much different to the following to the point woltk is closer to cata then vanilla. which is why including woltk as classic and not cata makes no sense if woltk is more similiae to cata in playstyle and design

I haven't really addressed your general point, you asked (i assume rhetorically) for examples of additional homogenization that happened in Cata.
I pointed a bunch of examples out.

Secondly, you implied that classes in Vanilla were more homogenized citing that both Mages and Warlocks only pressed a single button in raids, i'm however arguing that this is a faulty comparison because the classes weren't solely designed around raiding.

Regardless of whether you believe i'm making a point for you, doesn't change the fact that the claims you made in your previous post are frankly inaccurate or a just a plain bad comparison.

[Nachtigal]

Why do content that you don't want to do? Leave LFR for people who want to do LFR, it literally has no effect on people who do other difficulties.

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You're making some incorrect assumptions here, and your post has the familiar whiff of elitism about it. I've never known a guild that can raid at whatever time I happen to feel like raiding on any given day or night, and it's just not true that such guilds are readily available everywhere. And the notion that retail is 'watered down' is laughable, as the game arguably has the most difficult content that it's ever had. The people who complain most about LFR are the people who would never want or need to do that content. They just want to take something from the game that has no effect on them at all, because for some reason its mere existence makes them feel less special.

I don't think that I am. If you choose to stay in a guild that doesn't operate within the same schedule available to you, then that's on you. There are plenty of guilds that raid at all kinds of crazy hours. You just have to put the effort in to find one. If at the end of your day you don't have the energy to put the abysmal amount of effort required to find a guild you can play with, then the game probably isn't for you. There's nothing "elite" about telling someone that the game might not be for them. Not everything in this world can be tailored in a way to be available to everybody. The fact is people are going to fall through the cracks, trying to patch as many of them as you can is how you end up with a game like retail.

Which by the way, when I said it was watered down it had nothing to do with difficulty. I think we all know by now that it wasn't the difficulty (at the time) that made it fun. It's not difficulty that keeps people playing Classic. It's the way the game is made. Things matter in Classic that have long since been forgotten in retail. As an example, to be a blacksmith in Wrath of the Lich King, you'll need to have levelled up your blacksmithing through Vanilla and TBC. While it may be an inconvenience to those who only want to show up and jump right into their WotLK professions, it keeps the old world relevant. In retail, most professions you can drop at the start of a new expansion to pick up herb/skinning/mining to farm materials to either sell or use in professions, and then pick back up your intended professions without affecting anything relevant to the newest expansion.

This is just one example, there are many things not immediately perceived that goes into making Classic successful. The idea of keeping LFR out of the game is less about keeping other people out than people like you would like to believe. At most, the only automated queue that belongs in Classic is LFD, but kept server specific to preserve server social networks. Cross realm has no place in Classic. These things belong in retail. If LFR were to make it to Classic, I would hope that it too is kept server specific.

[Hctaz]

i agree with MoP but legion is debatable, while it had nice raids, quests and zones, the class design was atrocious and the borrowed power grind was unreal.

Legion was a great expansion for anybody who wasn't trying to be optimize their character like they had done since Vanilla-WoD.

Anybody who was looking for BiS lists, or at least trying to stay relatively competitive with other players was in for a nightmare of a time.

Two shit legendary items on your first character? Might as well reroll, cuz you aren't getting a third until the Karazhan patch.

Class balance and design on release was pretty awful, then it got better, then it got worse (IMO).

Legion was absolutely the beginning of the end of my enjoyment of retail WoW entirely for me. Chores to stay relevant, random loot drops... I really did not have a good time. Not to mention a lot of the point of borrowed power in the first place was to introduce new mechanics and ideas that may or may not be everybody's cup of tea, but they would be LIMITED and not show up constantly or even ever again potentially...

...except then they did show up constantly and became part of a lot of classes' base identity. Chains of Ice Cold Heart buff, Obliterate having a random chance to refund runes, consuming Hot Streak has a chance to make your next non-instant Pyroblast deal more damage... Unholy is finally getting away from all the, "Death Coil reduces the CD on these cooldown abilities" that made the spec rather annoying to play, but they still are plagued with all the borrowed power, "this cooldown empowers this other cooldown and makes it stronger, so figure out the correct order on all these "

[anubisdark]

I was 100% into WOW when classic came out. I was fresh from Wrath. The leveling content in cata was great. But once I got to heroic dungeons they were brutally hard, especially when compared to Wrath. It emptied my guild in over a month because of how hard the endgame became.

[craigw]

Definitely.

Elemental shamans being able to cast Lightning Bolt while moving was a GLYPH.

that shit was so fun.

[Linri]

Honestly, I had a great time levelling up through Cata, the zones were unique, fun, and although it was only 5 levels I enjoyed it.

If one positive thing came out if Cata for me, it was probably verification that I am way more PVP oriented than PVE oriented at end game.

[Ticj]

Please no, I want classic+

[Hambo94]

Why do content that you don't want to do? Leave LFR for people who want to do LFR, it literally has no effect on people who do other difficulties.

Because in half of the games history players have been pushed to do it as part of weekly content as it rewards strongly, not usually in the form of gear but in other forms like rep.

Again, even if I dont do it, it promotes non participation and lazy behaviour. I have witnessed this playing the game since near the start, once LFR was out, it became norm for half the player base to enter content, LFR, Warfronts, etc, and think its acceptable/ok to just AFK and let others do it. All content in this game should be sufficiently difficult that if everyone dosent participate to X level, you will fail, and afk punishments should be strictly enforced. LFR is a complete joke difficulty and even then, ive failed to be able to clear wings because of significant numbers of AFKers. Its just broken and creates toxic attitudes.

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I mean I'm raiding right in BCC with 25 I will raid with 25 in WrathC and I just hope they don't do Cata at all at this point. If they go to Cata Classic I'd probably just sit it out for Retail at that point.

Thats fine, but ive sat out Classic and sat out TBC and will be coming back for WrathC and if they dont do Cata (with significant changes) and MoP (with some changes *cough remove the stupid legendary cloak*) then I will just not play any Warcraft. So its swings and roundabouts.

[Perkunas]

Man fuck the Legendary for all attitude. Hated that shit in MOP and beyond.

[hambone2626]

I would play cata classic if they kept wrath class builds.

[varren]

Love the people gatekeeping the term "Classic". All it is is Blizzard's way of saying "re release of old expansion". Nothing more than that.

[deenman]

I think the issue was exactly that, the heroics in WotLK were complete faceroll the week the game launched and Cata heroics were more like modern-day m+.

I doubt current retail players would have it as hard as people did back then.

the people doing 10-15m+ wont have it as hard,but the game is full of people who just do normal/hc,those people will still cause nightmares in a RDF enviroment in cata,they really need to disable it for heroic atleast until the nerfs,but heck maybe they dont even need to nerf em if they are no longer in RDF

[Bigbazz]

Love the people gatekeeping the term "Classic". All it is is Blizzard's way of saying "re release of old expansion". Nothing more than that.

Well Cataclysm was the expansion that moved the game into the next era, removing a lot of what people associate with Classic. Like the new talent trees, like the massive changes to class design, introduction of LFR/Transmog, the massively increased general boss difficulty across the board (dungeons and raids). Cataclysm isn't "Classic" mostly because Cataclysm is more modern, though it's still a million miles away from Shadowlands, I think we're in the 3rd age since Legion.

Cataclysm is to WoW what St Anger is to Metallica.