Page 1 of 8
1
2
3
... LastLast
  1. #1

    Crafting will become in Dragonflight what boosting was in Shadowlands

    Blizzard seems to love their Dark Patterns.

    Seems they tune down boosting, because one of the devs suddenly developed something like a conscience about the fact that boosting actively recruited the raiders and mythic+ players as Whale hunters and paid them with game time for free, while they dry out their casual gamers gameplay with less things to do as like removing casual gamer components like warfronts in Shadowlands and Thorghast in Dragonflight turning their casual gamers into possible whales by selling tokens to them to afford the boosts.

    While blizzard monetizes their casual gamers to the fullest extend, they put most of their effort in endgame into premade groups and make gameplay for the boosters rather than gameplay for those who pay their sallary.

    While boosting loses more and more effect, crafting will become what boosting was. Casual gamers will be able to buy crafting orders with tokens by bringing a few mats they bought in the auction house (for gold.. well.. another token) and a lot of gold to a raid crafter to make them rich and allow them to get their gametime for free. Blizzard profits form both the crafter and the casual gamer and we are back to the dark pattern from boosting.

    Blizzard does not just cater to high end gamers mainly, they also abuse their casual gamers as cash cows. How can anyone act as if there is any morality left in the developers work? How can anyone wonder how the game developed if the devs are that rotten they add shady mechanics like these instead of actually developing gameplay for many?

  2. #2
    Entertaining read, thanks. Would benefit from something more than just loud exclamations, like examples of DF crafting patterns that are inaccessible to anyone but mythic raiders.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Echeyakee View Post
    Entertaining read, thanks. Would benefit from something more than just loud exclamations, like examples of DF crafting patterns that are inaccessible to anyone but mythic raiders.
    The patterns might (dunno) not be, but the materials do, I believe? With that said, it has been that way in the past so it's not new and nor was it really an issue.

  4. #4
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    5,083
    Pass the tinfoil hat
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  5. #5
    as I understand it, no amount of gold will allow for a non-raider (or casual as OP incorrectly refers to them) to acquire a raid level crafted item. Or at least, not at the mythic level.

    The BOP items required to craft these items will drop inside of the raid.

    The raider must provide these items to the crafter via work order in order to get the crafted piece.

    The only thing changing is that the crafter does not need to be a raider in order to craft items FOR raiders. To use the item yourself you need the BOP mats and therefore need to raid to acquire them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  6. #6
    Legendary! Makabreska's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Streets Strange by Moonlight
    Posts
    6,457
    Ye, ye. WoW is shit, DF will be shit, devs are evil, Ion is unfit cuz he is a lawyer.

    Honestly, where people find strength to spew same asinine crap over and over for a more than a year? Do they think they are on a mission or something?
    Last edited by Makabreska; 2022-09-16 at 08:21 PM.
    Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.

  7. #7
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    24,523
    Quote Originally Posted by Soisoisoi View Post
    The patterns might (dunno) not be, but the materials do, I believe? With that said, it has been that way in the past so it's not new and nor was it really an issue.
    No recipes are locked, but if you want mythic level gear you will need to do mythic, however even if you have not done mythic, you can craft mythic gear for other people.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    as I understand it, no amount of gold will allow for a non-raider (or casual as OP incorrectly refers to them) to acquire a raid level crafted item. Or at least, not at the mythic level.

    The BOP items required to craft these items will drop inside of the raid.

    The raider must provide these items to the crafter via work order in order to get the crafted piece.

    The only thing changing is that the crafter does not need to be a raider in order to craft items FOR raiders. To use the item yourself you need the BOP mats and therefore need to raid to acquire them.
    This is true, you need ot mythic raid to get mythic gear

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    5,083
    Are the crafted things that require raid reagents locked behind requiring a certain level of that crafting profession to be able to equip?
    Last edited by SinR; 2022-09-16 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Clarification
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Are the crafted things that require raid reagents locked behind requiring a certain level of that crafting profession to be able to equip?
    nope. You don't need to have the prof at all to equip it. Just get the mats and open a work order- let us (crafters) do the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  10. #10
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    5,083
    Also, my memory might be a bit hazy, but I seem to remember there being BOE pieces that used BOP crafting materials through TBC and WOTLK. As the expansions went on the BOP materials (Frozen Orbs, Primal Nethers, etc) became BOE and tradable.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  11. #11
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,162
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Are the crafted things that require raid reagents locked behind requiring a certain level of that crafting profession?
    Very much so. You need to level the specialization for each slot just to unlock the recipe and crafting at a Mythic level will likely require high skill, the best crafting equipment and probably some crafting consumables to boost your chance.

    From what I'm reading atm the grind is brutal. Which might help create enough scarcity in crafters to make up for the scarcity in Mythic materials.
    I think the real interest will be on Embellished items. You can wear up to two of those and I am pretty sure that embellished loot with preferred stats, especially in non-tier spots will be BiS for everyone. I really cannot imagine the plate legs going live as they are (reset all cooldowns and give massive speed boost after killing a raid or dungeon boss)

    Now if you have a decent chance to get a Mythic reagent from the first boss of Vault, single boss boosts in Vault might be common though probably still very expensive. Vastly easier to pull off than full clears and crafters themselves seem to have some timegating on their best crafts through the Spark reagent. Ofc unlike current boosts you first need to really master a profession to get to that level or then you are both paying a crafter and a raid to boost you.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-16 at 08:29 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Very much so. You need to level the specialization for each slot just to unlock the recipe and crafting at a Mythic level will likely require high skill, the best crafting equipment and probably some crafting consumables to boost your chance.

    From what I'm reading atm the grind is brutal. Which might help create enough scarcity in crafters to make up for the scarcity in Mythic materials.
    I think the real interest will be on Embellished items. You can wear up to two of those and I am pretty sure that embellished loot with preferred stats, especially in non-tier spots will be BiS for everyone. I really cannot imagine the plate legs going live as they are (reset all cooldowns and give massive speed boost after killing a raid or dungeon boss)

    Now if you have a decent chance to get a Mythic reagent from the first boss of Vault, single boss boosts in Vault might be common. Vastly easier to pull off than full clears and crafters themselves seem to have some timegating on their best crafts through the Spark reagent.
    You're talking about being able to craft the item, not equip it. You don't need the profession at all to equip the item.

    Then again I just re-read SinRs post and I might have jumped the gun myself. I thought they were asking about being able to equip those items.
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Nymrohd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2022
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    3,162
    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    You're talking about being able to craft the item, not equip it. You don't need the profession at all to equip the item.

    Then again I just re-read SinRs post and I might have jumped the gun myself. I thought they were asking about being able to equip those items.
    Hmm you might be right though

    To clarify, yes, you do not need crafting skill to actually wear an item.

  14. #14
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    5,083
    I'm asking if you need BS skill to equip a Blacksmith crafted piece using these BOP raid reagents.

    I edited my original post to clarify that, Nym didn't see that edit though
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  15. #15
    I still dont fully understand the system,

    so a Raider raids, gets BOP materials
    casual goes to AH and places a work order - please craft X item for me
    Raider accepts the work order, uses his BOP raid materials and makes the item
    casual player gets the raid crafted item, capped at 6 items

    Which part is wrong?

  16. #16
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    My Own Personal Hell
    Posts
    5,083
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    I still dont fully understand the system,

    so a Raider raids, gets BOP materials
    casual goes to AH and places a work order - please craft X item for me
    Raider accepts the work order, uses his BOP raid materials and makes the item
    casual player gets the raid crafted item, capped at 6 items

    Which part is wrong?
    According to OP, crafters will charge 1 WoW Token worth of gold per BOP crafting material used, which leads to people buying WoW tokens which kills the game.

    Again, this is according to OP.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  17. #17
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    24,523
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Also, my memory might be a bit hazy, but I seem to remember there being BOE pieces that used BOP crafting materials through TBC and WOTLK. As the expansions went on the BOP materials (Frozen Orbs, Primal Nethers, etc) became BOE and tradable.
    That was how it worked, that is not how its working now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Are the crafted things that require raid reagents locked behind requiring a certain level of that crafting profession to be able to equip?
    no, you just need to have it crafted. there is some effects like engineering stuff though for obvious reasons.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    I'm asking if you need BS skill to equip a Blacksmith crafted piece using these BOP raid reagents.

    I edited my original post to clarify that, Nym didn't see that edit though
    No you do not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    I still dont fully understand the system,

    so a Raider raids, gets BOP materials
    casual goes to AH and places a work order - please craft X item for me
    Raider accepts the work order, uses his BOP raid materials and makes the item
    casual player gets the raid crafted item, capped at 6 items

    Which part is wrong?
    The opposite

    Mythic raider gets mythic currency and wants an item crafted, they go to Ah and ask "hey can someone craft this for me"
    mister casual who has not raided a day in his life, but has max professions, then crafts the item for the mythic raider, who then gets the item.


    If you want mythic raid gear, you need to do mythic level content,
    if you want to CRAFT mythic raid gear, all you need is to upgrade your professions and do work orders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    According to OP, crafters will charge 1 WoW Token worth of gold per BOP crafting material used, which leads to people buying WoW tokens which kills the game.

    Again, this is according to OP.
    Op is cantrip, do not listen to him, dude does literally 0 research, and when given research, denies it exists.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by cantrip View Post
    Blizzard seems to love their Dark Patterns.

    Seems they tune down boosting, because one of the devs suddenly developed something like a conscience about the fact that boosting actively recruited the raiders and mythic+ players as Whale hunters and paid them with game time for free, while they dry out their casual gamers gameplay with less things to do as like removing casual gamer components like warfronts in Shadowlands and Thorghast in Dragonflight turning their casual gamers into possible whales by selling tokens to them to afford the boosts.

    While blizzard monetizes their casual gamers to the fullest extend, they put most of their effort in endgame into premade groups and make gameplay for the boosters rather than gameplay for those who pay their sallary.

    While boosting loses more and more effect, crafting will become what boosting was. Casual gamers will be able to buy crafting orders with tokens by bringing a few mats they bought in the auction house (for gold.. well.. another token) and a lot of gold to a raid crafter to make them rich and allow them to get their gametime for free. Blizzard profits form both the crafter and the casual gamer and we are back to the dark pattern from boosting.

    Blizzard does not just cater to high end gamers mainly, they also abuse their casual gamers as cash cows. How can anyone act as if there is any morality left in the developers work? How can anyone wonder how the game developed if the devs are that rotten they add shady mechanics like these instead of actually developing gameplay for many?
    I told you before - this is buisness for kids:

    1)Let's say that Dragonflight costs 100M $ to develop and market.
    2)You need TO EARN THE MONEY BACK.
    3)What ever you earn above 100M $ - is the cash you bring home.

    And I told you - don't ask the wrong questions.

    If the casuals are paying the money - then that is how they will go. Or they should fire those devs you pity.
    Last edited by HansOlo; 2022-09-16 at 09:02 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    I still dont fully understand the system,

    so a Raider raids, gets BOP materials
    casual goes to AH and places a work order - please craft X item for me
    Raider accepts the work order, uses his BOP raid materials and makes the item
    casual player gets the raid crafted item, capped at 6 items

    Which part is wrong?
    The part where the non-raider places a work order for a raid item and gets it is wrong.

    You (The one who wants the item) MUST obtain the BOP mats yourself, there is no way around this.


    So its more like:

    - Raider raids mythic and gets mythic BOP crafting material.
    - Raider places a work order for Mythic quality item, and includes the required BOP materials in the work order.
    - Crafter accepts the work order and produces the mythic quality item for the raider.
    - The raider receives the produced mythic quality item
    - The crafter receives gold as compensation, how much is determined by the work order.
    Last edited by AcidicSyn; 2022-09-16 at 09:06 PM. Reason: changed crafted items to crafting materials for more clarity
    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    "Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never....BURN IT"
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    You are kinda joe Roganing this topic. Hardly have any actual knowledge other than what people have told you, and jumping into a discussion with people who have direct experience with it. Don't be Joe Rogan.

  20. #20
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    24,523
    Quote Originally Posted by HansOlo View Post
    I told you before - this is buisness for kids:

    1)You want to create some expansion - and say that it costs 100M $.
    2)You need TO EARN THE MONEY BACK.
    3)What ever you earn above 100M $, is the cash you bring home.

    And I told you - don't ask the wrong questions.

    If the casuals are paying the money - then that is how they will go. Or they should fire those devs you pity.
    Cantrip is literally just bullshitting the entire post, none of it is accurate mate, check both posts below.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by AcidicSyn View Post
    The part where the non-raider places a work order for a raid item and gets it is wrong.

    You (The one who wants the item) MUST obtain the BOP mats yourself, there is no way around this.


    So its more like:

    - Raider raids mythic and gets mythic BOP crafted items.
    - Raider places a work order for Mythic quality item, and includes the required BOP items in the work order.
    - Crafter accepts the work order and produces the mythic quality item for the raider.
    - The raider receives the produced mythic quality item
    - The crafter receives gold as compensation, how much is determined by the work order.
    Quote Originally Posted by CalamityHeart View Post
    A raider raids, gets material for a raid-level crafted item.

    If the raider is also a suitable crafter, there is no need for a work order; he can just make his own item.

    If the raider is not a suitable crafter, what he can do is place a work order -- please craft X item for me, using this BOP material.

    A suitable crafter (read: "casual") will accept the work order and use the BOP material that the raider provided to craft the item. After which, the raider receives his item, and the crafter receives the commission for it.

    This is my understanding of how the system works, from what I've read of it, as it's the only way that the system makes any sort of sense.
    ^^^^ both of these are entirely accurate, actually a better list then I made of the steps.
    Last edited by FelPlague; 2022-09-16 at 09:20 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •