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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    The reason they offered Classic Vanilla to Wrath is that it's cheap to make and lots of people want to play it.

    The reason they will probably release Cata Classic, is that it's cheap to make, even if they have to spend some more time to balance and change it a bit, and they are hoping that enough people will just keep playing, even though cata has such a bad reputation. Its worth the risk to try. If it fails, it's not a big loss and they can just release MoP Classic, which will be a success again. If it works, they get a bunch of money and Catas reputation is restored a bit. Win Win.

    See you in 3 years or so, when we have to discuss the actual problem xpac :>
    Blizzard could get off their lazy ass and ADD the remaining half of WoD that they cut. Now that'd be awesome (hell, it could even be the best expansion they ever released at that point). They have years, so what's their excuse going to be?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyed View Post
    Broadly there are three eras in WoW:

    • Pre-Ghostcrawler (Vanilla, TBC, WotLK)
    • Ghostcrawler (Cata, MoP, WoD)
    • Post-Ghostcrawler (Legion, BFA, SL)

    Ghostcrawler's changes are what ruined WoW for most people. Ion taking over was primarily given the directive of undoing what GC did and making a modern version of the pre-GC era games. Some people think Ion's return to the old ways isn't puritan enough, and thus "classic" was born.

    To that end, classic versions of GC era expansions are kinda... nonsense... because that's the stuff most players hated and we are trying to avoid.
    This is absolute nonsense. For one thing, Ghostcrawler was a systems designer and Ion was a dungeon/raid designer who was then promoted to game director. They've never even served the same functions on the broader team. You people act like Ghostcrawler was in charge of everything. He specifically described his role as not involving "level, story, quest, PvP or encounter design."

    I'd wager my whole bank account that you don't even know the name of the person on the wow team who even has Ghostcrawler's old job.

    The idea that Ion brought the game back to the way it was in Vanilla, TBC, and WoTLK is bizarre. The game systems, which is what Ghostcrawler was actually involved in, moved markedly AWAY from the original designs during Ion's tenure.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    Blizzard could get off their lazy ass and ADD the remaining half of WoD that they cut. Now that'd be awesome (hell, it could even be the best expansion they ever released at that point). They have years, so what's their excuse going to be?
    Their excuse is obvious: There's no point in developing new content for two versions of the same game. If you want new content, play retail.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeltrusDisc View Post
    The original reason most ever asked for "classic/Vanilla" realms, was because we lost the old zones and, at least in the case of early Wrath and prior, less LFD/LFR implementation/ no LFR.

    Unless they do something substantial, I really personally don't see the reason for Cata Classic, though I guess ultimately it can be a way for people to live/relive Cataclysm, if they so please, but let's be real, Cata was the start of the overall downfall.

    I can't help but say I'd love a second chance to play MoP during the expansion, as there was a lot of fun during it, but I missed most of it.

    How are you all hoping Blizzard treats Cata "in a classic way"?
    The only reason blizzard made classic is for a cash grab. I wouldn't be surprised if blizzard goes all the way to Legion. The idea of classic+ with wotlk is obviously off the table if they are going to do Cata, though they may do a season of mastery but I personally won't be playing SoM as I want a persistent server to play on.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefastus View Post
    Of course its against. Not only it was the moment the map changed, its also when WoW started it downfall. Makes no sense to go beyond Wrath.

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    That would be cool. Game went downhill in story and everything else after Wrath.
    Do you know what the beauty of it is? If they do release cataclysm, you don't have to play. You can stop with wrath and move on. The people that want to play it will. It might not make sense to you. You might not like it, but im sure others will. Ive never seen people so invested in what other people enjoy / dont enjoy. Its absolutely boggles my mind.

  6. #46
    Mechagnome Recovery's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Err... everyone related to Classic ?
    I mean, if people aren't interested in Cataclysm, they won't play it, and Blizzard interest in developping Cataclysm Classic is to have people paying to play it.
    Honestly, 1 sub gets you retail and classic both. I seriously doubt that theres an extremely large percentage of players who ONLY play classic. Blizzard makes their money off of the epic edition of the game that people buy for the goodies and level boost. They will likely make cata and they will likely profit huge off of it. The people that dont like cata are just the vocal minority. It's been the same people hating on it since it was current. Most of them were casuals, who were upset by how "hard" the dungeons were on release.

  7. #47
    It's all about the money. No reasons or philosophy behind it, only profit.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Their excuse is obvious: There's no point in developing new content for two versions of the same game. If you want new content, play retail.
    I played retail back in WoD too, what was the excuse then? They didn't seem to feel the need for developing new content for one version of the game either.

    This is their chance to do some actual work that didn't interest them the first time around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    True, I was just bored and tired but you are correct.

    Last edited by Thwart; Today at 05:21 PM. Reason: Infracted for flaming
    Quote Originally Posted by epigramx View Post
    millennials were the kids of the 9/11 survivors.

  9. #49
    Immortal SL1200's Avatar
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    I'd rather play Cataclysm Classic than Mop classic. Just let it run it's course. Some people are Nostalgic for Cataclysm, just like they are for other expansions.

  10. #50
    No, the point of classic is to deviate from retail, it was only made possible by the private server communities who despise retail, going full circle is a spit in the face of this community.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Azadina View Post
    I played retail back in WoD too, what was the excuse then? They didn't seem to feel the need for developing new content for one version of the game either.

    This is their chance to do some actual work that didn't interest them the first time around.
    Obviously WoD ran into development issues and it seems quite likely in retrospect they abandoned the project to work on Legion. Are you so entitled that you believe that literally anything Blizzard ever says they're going to add to the game has to be added no matter what?

  12. #52
    The Insane DeltrusDisc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Low Hanging Fruit View Post
    Don't be a retail Andy to people that want Cata. They hated Classic and wanted to prevent it. You might not like Cata, but let it roll for those that want to do it. If it fails it fails. If it works out it works out. Really not that big of a deal.
    lol if you think I'm a retail Andy, then clearly I wrote this wrong. I was a huge advocate for Classic and remain a huge advocate. I just remember when Cata launched how much people wanted Vanilla realms increased, a lot due to the changes to the old world, not being able to visit them, etc. If Blizzard can (and I suppose they absolutely can and should be able to) they should go ahead and just release available versions of WoW at every expansion, but not the very last patch that breaks half the content, either. Personally, I loved how my Shadow Priest played in earlier Legion, when they started changing how Surrender to Madness worked, it got less fun.

    And suppose Blizzard just keeps going along... do we get WoD classic? Will they completely rework it and give Alliance the Temple of Karabor and Horde whatever their tower was named as city hubs, so it isn't another snooze fest in the garrisons? WoD has a LOT of opportunity, but in its current state, it would be a silly classic release.

    I do think Cata should be worked on a fair bit before they release it. Maybe add that underwater raid we never got... :')

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperKarateDeathCar View Post
    eh, for me it's more about the class design than anything else. Cata was super fun as SV, and MoP was king <3

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    lol that screenshot reminded me of the gun that always looked like a black color-pencil XD
    lol never heard anyone compare it to a black color pencil, but holy shit you're right. Man, Golden Eye 007 was one of the best N64 games. Wish they would release it again on the Switch. </3
    "A flower.
    Yes. Upon your return, I will gift you a beautiful flower."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmocd061d7bab8 View Post
    yeh but lava is just very hot water

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Their excuse is obvious: There's no point in developing new content for two versions of the same game. If you want new content, play retail.
    I know I've told you this 50 times already: Blizzard has stated that the classic and retail player bases do not have a lot of crossover. This arbitrary rule you have invented about developing content for multiple versions of a game has never been indicated at all by Blizzard. This is just another in the long list of arbitrary, made up rules that people keep insisting on:

    "They won't make classic because they can't have two versions of the game!"
    "They won't keep going with more classic expansions because people who want classic don't want to move!"
    "They won't keep classic servers around when TBC comes out because they can't fracture the player base!"
    "They won't do seasonal classic because it will fracture the player base!"
    "They won't remove dungeon finder because they HAVE TO include all the features from Wrath!"

    It goes on forever, this endless list of made up things that are nothing more than ignorant assumptions. The bottom line is that if they determine that the classic playerbase will stick around more if there is new content, they will do it. I'd anticipate it more takes the form of rebuilt content from expansions, but still.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #54
    well, but why NOT have it?
    there will most likely be wotlk era realms anyway.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I know I've told you this 50 times already: Blizzard has stated that the classic and retail player bases do not have a lot of crossover. This arbitrary rule you have invented about developing content for multiple versions of a game has never been indicated at all by Blizzard. This is just another in the long list of arbitrary, made up rules that people keep insisting on:

    "They won't make classic because they can't have two versions of the game!"
    "They won't keep going with more classic expansions because people who want classic don't want to move!"
    "They won't keep classic servers around when TBC comes out because they can't fracture the player base!"
    "They won't do seasonal classic because it will fracture the player base!"
    "They won't remove dungeon finder because they HAVE TO include all the features from Wrath!"

    It goes on forever, this endless list of made up things that are nothing more than ignorant assumptions. The bottom line is that if they determine that the classic playerbase will stick around more if there is new content, they will do it. I'd anticipate it more takes the form of rebuilt content from expansions, but still.
    Uh, dude? Aside from incorrectly stating my opinions, are you actually trying to dredge up 3+ year old arguments I've had with you now? Please don't do that. It's wildly off-topic and I promise nobody other than you gives the faintest fuck.

    ...anyway, it isn't a controversial take to say that Blizzard has absolutely no desire to live develop two different MMOs. Classic has always been (and always will be) a way to repackage existing content. There are few things in this world that I am more certain of than the fact that Classic will never have its own content.

  16. #56
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    The original intent of Classic was a museum.

    That went out the window with the first changes they made
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Relapses View Post
    Uh, dude? Aside from incorrectly stating my opinions, are you actually trying to dredge up 3+ year old arguments I've had with you now? Please don't do that. It's wildly off-topic and I promise nobody other than you gives the faintest fuck.

    ...anyway, it isn't a controversial take to say that Blizzard has absolutely no desire to live develop two different MMOs. Classic has always been (and always will be) a way to repackage existing content. There are few things in this world that I am more certain of than the fact that Classic will never have its own content.
    I've told you that particular point numerous times, and not that long ago.

    We heard all the same certainty about classic never getting made, seasons never happening, perpetual vanilla servers never being made, and on and on and on and on and on...

    I'm glad you have certainty in this arbitrary rule you invented. The people who insisted wow MUST END at level 100 because if some magical rule that the game cant go past level 100 were also very certain in their meaningless rule they invented. Where are all those folks with their rules about how Tinker has to be the next class because of how Warcraft 3 heroes worked? They were oh so certain in their made up rule too.

    Diablo 4 is indistinguishable from an MMO from an infrastructure perspective. It's going to have constant content patches, its online-only, its going to be a shared world just like retail wow, etc.. The only difference is going to be character-persistence as the main draw. Yet somehow, despite your fantasy rules, Diablo 4 is most certainly being made.

    I'm not saying Classic will get new content. I'm just taking issue with this insistence on fantasy made up rules, as though if it appears profitable Blizzard is going to refuse to do it because of some arbitrary limitation you made up. These are the EXACT SAME contentions made by people who said Classic would never happen.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    The original intent of Classic was a museum.

    That went out the window with the first changes they made
    There's a line between #SomeChanges and developing brand new content.

  19. #59
    Late to the conversation, but as much as Cataclysm put a stick in the spokes for WoW, it's a long way from retail.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I've told you that particular point numerous times, and not that long ago.

    We heard all the same certainty about classic never getting made, seasons never happening, perpetual vanilla servers never being made, and on and on and on and on and on...

    I'm glad you have certainty in this arbitrary rule you invented. The people who insisted wow MUST END at level 100 because if some magical rule that the game cant go past level 100 were also very certain in their meaningless rule they invented. Where are all those folks with their rules about how Tinker has to be the next class because of how Warcraft 3 heroes worked? They were oh so certain in their made up rule too.

    Diablo 4 is indistinguishable from an MMO from an infrastructure perspective. It's going to have constant content patches, its online-only, its going to be a shared world just like retail wow, etc.. The only difference is going to be character-persistence as the main draw. Yet somehow, despite your fantasy rules, Diablo 4 is most certainly being made.

    I'm not saying Classic will get new content. I'm just taking issue with this insistence on fantasy made up rules, as though if it appears profitable Blizzard is going to refuse to do it because of some arbitrary limitation you made up. These are the EXACT SAME contentions made by people who said Classic would never happen.
    There's a pretty big caveat you're forgetting to mention here. Blizzard's "wall of no" was the status quo for a reason. The technology didn't exist. The biggest change that happened which opened the floodgates for Classic's development was that somebody at Blizzard found a way to develop a version of Classic compatible with Blizzard's modern server architecture. Ion mentioned how they came about this in a lead-up interview with PC Gamer:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because we finally figured out a way to do it. As you know, questions have been asked at BlizzCon and elsewhere for a long time, and the answer of ‘no’ or ‘we can’t do this’ was never a philosophical one on our part, nor a matter of stubbornness. It was simply that every time we had looked back at what it would entail to bring the original World of Warcraft into the modern era, the obstacles seemed insurmountable.

    We had the original 1.12 client and server and data. But they were designed to run on hardware that hasn’t existed for a long time, in an overall tech stack and part of a broader Blizzard infrastructure that hasn’t existed for a long time. It was full of bugs and exploits and tons of things that really were addressed over the course of literally tens of thousands of hours of programming efforts between 2006 and today. So the idea of trying to retrace those steps seemed virtually impossible.

    But I think it was really just a few years ago – two and a half or three years ago – in part due to a more intense community focus, we took a much harder look at the question and said, ‘ok, we think this is impossible, but what if we had to do it – what approaches might we take?’ We started to go down some R&D paths. One of the ideas we came up with was an experiment that was spearheaded by a programmer on the WoW team, Omar Gonzalez, one of the members of the Classic team. What if we took our modern client, our modern server architecture and instead taught them to speak the original 1.12 data? Rather than working forwards, what if we took what we have now, trying to kind of interpret what was there back then.

    He spent a few weeks hacking together a rough prototype, and there were tons of bugs – things didn’t fully render, and there were all sorts of UI elements missing, and things weren’t accurate. But at its core, it was 1.12 WoW. It was the old world. It was the old skill system and talent system, and it was there running in the modern client. And the fact that he was able to get so far in that amount of time gave us confidence that this is something that we actually could do. There wasn’t going to be hundreds of thousands of hours. It was to be something that we can actually deliver in a number of years and get to our players at a level of quality that we deemed worthy of Blizzard and worthy of what they expect of us. That’s the story of WoW Classic.

    Ultimately, I think we came to that conclusion really late into summer 2017, and announced it at BlizzCon a couple of months after that. Uncharacteristically early in a lot of ways for a Blizzard announcement. In part because we were just really excited that we had found a path to make this happen and wanted to share it with the world. We knew there’s gonna be a ton of enthusiasm behind it. We knew those those questions were going to continue. People have been asking them forever. We wanted to be able to say, ‘yes, we’re doing it’.
    Legacy has always been about capturing the authenticity of a version of WoW that's no longer available to play. It has never been about forking off a new version of the game at some indeterminate point in its past. The leap in logic to go from "they said Classic couldn't exist and look at us now," to "gee, maybe Blizzard wants to have two live services under the same subscription" is substantial and, importantly, there really isn't any precedence to lend credence to this idea.

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