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  1. #1

    What were the best comps for the hardest 10-man Wrath bosses?

    I didn't raid 10-hard myself, but I remember hearing that Lich King 10 Heroic basically had to be healed by a holy pally and disc priest. (Shields helped with the plague, if a PW:Shield was absorbed completely it gave the priest back almost all the mana used to cast it. Beacon of Light was just really powerful in 10-man content overall IIRC because it was so useful to heal the tanks and spotheal.)

    Edit: Yogg+0 greatly favored affliction warlocks because having to turn away from the boss in P3 just hurt everyone else too much and the DPS requirement was too tight.

    Also, is there an ideal comp that could easily go through the entire expac? (Edit: the answer was to stack ranged)

    How about Sarth+3?
    Last edited by garicasha; 2022-09-19 at 08:05 PM.
    Raid encounters will always have lots of similar elements so long as there's an underlying guideline that DPS must always be pumping 100%.

  2. #2
    Generally speaking, you're better off with a ranged / caster comp, because covering every single buff in a 10man is extremely difficult and there's only a few situations where Ranged are at disadvantage to Melees.
    Just cover the most relevant buffs there (Spellpower, CoE, etc..), throw in some casters and you're set, feel free to throw in an Unholy DK if you want to have at least one melee.

    Going for a mixed comp has the issue that you'll probably have to skip out on some critical buffs, which will obviously impact your dps negatively for little gain.
    Altough Loot distribution is a lot healthier because you can make use both caster and melee items, whereas in a Melee / caster heavy comp, you'll have a clownfiesta whenver a specific ring or trinket drops.

    Disc / Hpal is pretty much the best healer comp, Disc because Shields are OP (at least if the Disc is competent) and the Hpal takes care of tankhealing.

  3. #3
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    If you want to be safe in Wrath, you are right that Holy pala and Disc priest are auto-wins.

    Same with Warrior tanks and boomkins. The control they bring is gold the entire expansion and boomkins become a bit crazy late in the expansion with major AOE and moving moonfire.

    Outside of that, it was pretty open, but rogues, paladins, DKs and Warlocks had good specs for DPS most of the expansion, so filling that out, makes for a good team.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

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  4. #4
    The Patient Tyranastus's Avatar
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    I remember when ICC rolled around I got pulled into a weekly HC 10 man. I was recruited as a survival hunter and was the only non-"caster" in the 10 man group. I know that there was a mage, balance druid, shadow priest, paladin and warrior tanks, but I couldn't tell you the rest of the comp. We downed everything in HC10 except LK. Not sure if that is remotely helpful or if the comp was even slightly optimal for the content.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    If you want to be safe in Wrath, you are right that Holy pala and Disc priest are auto-wins.

    Same with Warrior tanks and boomkins. The control they bring is gold the entire expansion and boomkins become a bit crazy late in the expansion with major AOE and moving moonfire.

    Outside of that, it was pretty open, but rogues, paladins, DKs and Warlocks had good specs for DPS most of the expansion, so filling that out, makes for a good team.
    I remember some things differently. I remember Paladins being your S tier tank. I also remember affliction warlocks being stacked for Yog 0 because the insanity mechanic made other classes too much of a DPS loss with the facing requirements and the tight tuning made it too difficult until TOC gave more gear.

  6. #6
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Everyone saying disc priest, think again.

    yes, sure, it can work but it is not needed.

    Back then I did all the raids, 10 and 25 in hard modes and HC... My priest only ever had to go disc for LK HC, and everything else as holy was perfectly fine.

    Sure, shields prevent lots of damage, but a competent holy priest can perfectly cope with the damage just as good or even better..

  7. #7
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    I remember some things differently. I remember Paladins being your S tier tank. I also remember affliction warlocks being stacked for Yog 0 because the insanity mechanic made other classes too much of a DPS loss with the facing requirements and the tight tuning made it too difficult until TOC gave more gear.
    Some classes/specs were very high up in priority for some fights, as you point out with affliction warlocks on Yog 0, but if you take an overall look for the entire expansion, Afflic locks were especially better than many others for Naxx through to ICC.

    I think the only pure fact about viablity in Wrath, was that melee had a tough time and that ranged reigned supreme for most of the expansion, since so many mechanics were easier to deal with as ranged than melee. Some melee specs had their time in the light when their tier sets were OP, but in generel, the game did not like teams having too many of them.

    And for tanks, im sure that outside of druid tanks, most were viable. I just mention Warriors, since they became quite a key part of dealing with some mob encounters with their shockwave stun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Everyone saying disc priest, think again.

    yes, sure, it can work but it is not needed.

    Back then I did all the raids, 10 and 25 in hard modes and HC... My priest only ever had to go disc for LK HC, and everything else as holy was perfectly fine.

    Sure, shields prevent lots of damage, but a competent holy priest can perfectly cope with the damage just as good or even better..
    I also remember, that most of our priests were holy for the larger part of the expansion, but in the end, there was little difference between disc and holy healing outside of the focus of big heals vs shields. Unless you needed angel wings, there was no reason to not go a mix of disc/holy for healing, as you could double dip the good stuff.

    So if you play healer priest, its not hard to jump between what is needed in specific fights, if you need to dive deeper into holy or dics, so its a very safe choice as a healer role in generel. And as ICC came closer, it really did become the primary healer role for most raids as those bubbles were everywhere.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by shise View Post
    Sure, shields prevent lots of damage, but a competent holy priest can perfectly cope with the damage just as good or even better..
    Thing is, Absorbing damage > taking damage.

    There's a good reason why Disc has been an extremely dominant healer since they could spam shields without a CD, because not taking damage is better than healing damage.
    I'm not saying that all encounters are not playable without a disc, but it's just plain easier with one.

    It's like playing Arms over Fury in ICC, like sure you can do it, but that doesn't mean they're somehow equal.

  9. #9
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Thing is, Absorbing damage > taking damage.

    There's a good reason why Disc has been an extremely dominant healer since they could spam shields without a CD, because not taking damage is better than healing damage.
    I'm not saying that all encounters are not playable without a disc, but it's just plain easier with one.

    It's like playing Arms over Fury in ICC, like sure you can do it, but that doesn't mean they're somehow equal.
    God, i forgot about how OP titans-grip was O.o
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    God, i forgot about how OP titans-grip was O.o
    It's not as OP as some might believe, without Impale / Deep wounds, Titan's Grip does jackshit.

    Check out the current dps rankings on Brutallus, the only Fury Warriors pulling decent numbers are ones with Warglaives.

  11. #11
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    It's not as OP as some might believe, without Impale / Deep wounds, Titan's Grip does jackshit.

    Check out the current dps rankings on Brutallus, the only Fury Warriors pulling decent numbers are ones with Warglaives.
    I just remember it feeling amazing when it first came out. I do also remember it being undertuned/overtuned at some points, but as soon as a big powerful 2-h weapon came out, there was always those looking to see what doubling down on those weapons could do
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  12. #12
    The two bosses on the sides of Putricide, one of them needed a certain number of people at...melee or ranged?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Flurryfang View Post
    I just mention Warriors, since they became quite a key part of dealing with some mob encounters with their shockwave stun.- - - Updated - - -
    What bosses? I've seen some other posts saying warrior tanks were kind of underpowered, especially compared to pallies.
    Raid encounters will always have lots of similar elements so long as there's an underlying guideline that DPS must always be pumping 100%.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    The two bosses on the sides of Putricide, one of them needed a certain number of people at...melee or ranged?
    Festergut required at least 3 people standing outside, else the vomit would land in melee and likely cause a wipe.
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    What bosses? I've seen some other posts saying warrior tanks were kind of underpowered, especially compared to pallies.
    The Shockwave stun can be neat on bosses like Saurfang, but that's iffy because if the Warr is currently tanking the boss when the addds spawn, he has to move in order to hit both adds.

    Generally speaking, Prot Warr can do some amazing damage at AoE and cleave but in terms of survivalability, they just take a lot more damage than Druid and also don't have the cheat death that Prot Pallies have.
    They're good on dual wielding bosses such as Algalon because they can block a ton of damage, but outside of that, they're pretty much the worst tank.

  14. #14
    How's about Sarth 3D? DK tank (s)?
    Raid encounters will always have lots of similar elements so long as there's an underlying guideline that DPS must always be pumping 100%.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post
    How's about Sarth 3D? DK tank (s)?
    Kind of depends. During progression we used a druid on Sarth and another tank for the adds. Sarth had some hits that were hard to survive without the larger health pool of a druid during some of the phases. Eventually people started to just pull Sarth and zerg him and basically ignored the adds and at that point I don't think who your tank was mattered as much. What will be interesting is to see if people are able to just do the zerg method from day 1 in classic - I suspect they will, because many people were much less competent at their DPS rotations back then.

  16. #16
    Banned rogoth's Avatar
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    the best comp for 10 man is having a disc priest and holy paladin on healing, with a shaman in the group to swap between melee/ranged/optional third healer, plus brings totems for many of the buffs that you would need, for tanking your best option is to have a paladin/warrior or DK/warrior or DK/paladin setup, DK can either be the single target boss tank or the aoe add tank where the warrior fills in the solo target boss tank or the paladin does the aoe tank job etc, as far as dps goes, a shadow priest is good to have for their utility, a mage for intellect and the best burst dps in the game, a warlock for debuffs and DoT dmg, a druid for any role that you're missing, usually a moonkin to provide spell haste + innervates, hunter for ranged physical dps as well as the option to play BM and support with pets as the situation needs, during ICC i solo healed on my holy paladin the whole raid with a shaman helping out on dreamwalker, granted i had full BiS and valan'yr but still, holy paladin healing for tank healing is insane, disc priest is also stupidly good throughout the expansion, and since it will be using the 3.3.5 build from the get go, the cooldown time on shields and the debuff from applying them was changed to make it so you could have 100% up time if you were good enough, so expect to see a lot of priests.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deferionus View Post
    Kind of depends. During progression we used a druid on Sarth and another tank for the adds. Sarth had some hits that were hard to survive without the larger health pool of a druid during some of the phases. Eventually people started to just pull Sarth and zerg him and basically ignored the adds and at that point I don't think who your tank was mattered as much. What will be interesting is to see if people are able to just do the zerg method from day 1 in classic - I suspect they will, because many people were much less competent at their DPS rotations back then.
    there was a strat where you went in with a single DK tank, a single holy paladin and 8 dps, throw everything possible at the boss and kill it within heroism/bloodlust window, hectic as fuck but really fun to try and do, just takes a huge amount of optimisation.

  17. #17
    I can't be sure I remember accurately... but we did 10 man heroic lich king (LK took a lot of attempts) with

    Heals - Paladin, Disc Priest
    Tank - Warrior Off tank Druid (dps as cat a lot)
    Melee dps - dk, ret pally, combat rogue
    Ranged dps - affliction lock, fire mage, ele shaman

    Some fights the ret pally tanked and the druid went dps; the shaman sometimes healed.
    Last edited by irdsyd; 2022-09-22 at 07:00 AM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by garicasha View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    What bosses? I've seen some other posts saying warrior tanks were kind of underpowered, especially compared to pallies.
    Prot Warriors are the highest DPS+Threat, most mobile tanks in Wrath and they had great crowdcontrol abilities via stuns, silences, disarms as well as bringing the most tank centric debuffs (-% attackspeed and power), however they're very cooldown reliant and don't have a cheat-death esque ability. This means that they generally took more spikey damage than other tanks and due to their limited self-healing and cooldown dependencies they had less options to recover from bad RNG/big hits. However that doesn't mean they were bad tanks - all tanks in wrath are great and more than up to any task thrown at them. Some of them are more ideal at some situations than others (IE DKs vs 3-Drakes, Warriors vs Iron Council/Thorim Gauntlets etc etc)

  19. #19
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
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    I think that in Wrath, more than most expansions, the best comps were more limited to what roles were needed than what classes you wanted.

    Its more a question about if you need ranged or melee dps, single target or AOE heal, durability tanks or shock tanks, than whether what class the role was.

    Aside from key roles (Disc priest for burst prevention, rogues/hunters for MD), i have seen many different comps take on hard bosses and were more focused on better ability on the player.

    So i don't think comp matters that much in Wrath.

    Edit: This also comes as an effect of the class development in Wrath. Wrath gave a lot of utility for classes as it kept building on top of what Vanilla and TBC provided. It took little away, which meant that most classes had a toolbelt with many different elements to support a raid team.
    Last edited by Flurryfang; 2022-09-22 at 01:14 PM.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  20. #20
    I'll go for the idea that hard fights can be cleared with non-meta raid rosters.

    But Wrath did have some REALLY important raid buffs and debuffs and that's hard to ignore.
    Raid encounters will always have lots of similar elements so long as there's an underlying guideline that DPS must always be pumping 100%.

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