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  1. #1

    I'd rather have more impactful talents.

    For example, the datamined Improved Lay On Hands. Reduces the cooldown by 10%.

    I'm sorry, but I'm never going to notice not being able to use Lay On Hands between minute 9 and 10. This is a talent that's going to be important for minmaxing raiders exclusively, the average player is just not going to be realistically affected by it either way.

    I feel like talents should be impactful, and important. A choice node that decreases Lay On Hands *or* Divine Shield's cooldown by 50%.

    Hell, every node should be a choice node. Like PVP talents, many choices but few slots. But some that are more powerful than others. ...............Oh. Glyphs.

    Hmm...

  2. #2
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    The problem with that, with the new talent trees, is that not every single node choice can be that way. I'd imagine it would take Blizzard years to make every single node that way.


    Have fun waiting for Dragonflight to launch in 2025. 3 more years of Shadowlands... wooooooooooooo!

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    The problem with that, with the new talent trees, is that not every single node choice can be that way. I'd imagine it would take Blizzard years to make every single node that way.
    But like.... *why*?

    Even if they have to have a separate tree for "War", "Raid", and "Adventure", like how pvp talents only work in pvp.

    So youd end up like a fucking Torghast beast in the open world.

    I see no downside.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    But like.... *why*?

    Even if they have to have a separate tree for "War", "Raid", and "Adventure", like how pvp talents only work in pvp.

    So youd end up like a fucking Torghast beast in the open world.

    I see no downside.

    Because balancing is still a thing Blizzard aims for in developing the game.


    And yeah, I see no downside for it either... but that's not the point. It's the time Blizzard would need to come up with way more cool/interesting/impactful talents to replace basic ones like "reduce _____ by __%" or "increase _____ damage by __%" and that just takes time.


    So youd end up like a fucking Torghast beast in the open world.

    This is exhibit A as to why balancing is needed in this regard.
    Last edited by KOUNTERPARTS; 2022-09-19 at 11:56 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    But like.... *why*?

    Even if they have to have a separate tree for "War", "Raid", and "Adventure", like how pvp talents only work in pvp.

    So youd end up like a fucking Torghast beast in the open world.

    I see no downside.
    I mean if you want that game Dragon Ball Kakarot has a new story dlc coming out soon

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    For example, the datamined Improved Lay On Hands. Reduces the cooldown by 10%.

    I'm sorry, but I'm never going to notice not being able to use Lay On Hands between minute 9 and 10. This is a talent that's going to be important for minmaxing raiders exclusively, the average player is just not going to be realistically affected by it either way.

    I feel like talents should be impactful, and important. A choice node that decreases Lay On Hands *or* Divine Shield's cooldown by 50%.

    Hell, every node should be a choice node. Like PVP talents, many choices but few slots. But some that are more powerful than others. ...............Oh. Glyphs.

    Hmm...
    totally agree,from a hunter point of view our talents have always been like this,very boring,surely the devs can do better than this.

  7. #7
    Do you not understand everything is a choice node? Going This path will limit the amount of points spent on that path. And powerful nodes are down the line with less powerful nodes to get to it. You aren't just choosing Glimmer, your choosing either dinvine toll and resonces or crusader strike cooldown to get there. Because there are multiple paths to each node. The way you make it would be very boring. Everything would go back to annoying cookie cutter builds of X Y Z as apposed to X-X-X Y-Z-X Z-Z-X you can even pick two paths to the same node to super charge it but you will lose points elsewhere.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by rhrrngt View Post
    Do you not understand everything is a choice node? Going This path will limit the amount of points spent on that path. And powerful nodes are down the line with less powerful nodes to get to it. You aren't just choosing Glimmer, your choosing either dinvine toll and resonces or crusader strike cooldown to get there. Because there are multiple paths to each node. The way you make it would be very boring. Everything would go back to annoying cookie cutter builds of X Y Z as apposed to X-X-X Y-Z-X Z-Z-X you can even pick two paths to the same node to super charge it but you will lose points elsewhere.
    Who cares where I'm spending points if those paths just give me boring passive effects with absolute minimal impact in all but the maxiest of minmax situations?

    I'd rather just have the next talent up the path take "two points" than have to choose between two flavorless breadcrumbs first.

  9. #9
    Thing is, if you dont want 10% shorter cooldown, then dont take it, spend your point in something else, build your own build the way you want instead of what people say are the "right" one, people are so blind with the "right" option, are you not a world first raider or pushing max mythic keys then you dont need the "right" build.

    The only meters that really matters is the health bars, do your enemy die before you die if yes, gz you won damage done.

    Can you stop health bars from reaching zero, gz you won healing done.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    For example, the datamined Improved Lay On Hands. Reduces the cooldown by 10%.

    I'm sorry, but I'm never going to notice not being able to use Lay On Hands between minute 9 and 10. This is a talent that's going to be important for minmaxing raiders exclusively, the average player is just not going to be realistically affected by it either way.

    I feel like talents should be impactful, and important. A choice node that decreases Lay On Hands *or* Divine Shield's cooldown by 50%.

    Hell, every node should be a choice node. Like PVP talents, many choices but few slots. But some that are more powerful than others. ...............Oh. Glyphs.

    Hmm...
    You are ignoring every other talent though when talking about just 10% off lay on hands.

    There is the cd reduction on lay on lands when spending HP.

    Lay on hands gives the target 1 min of +15% armor.

    And I think the current talent is there as well with the -30% reduction on it.

    You are looking at a 4-5 minute cd on lay on hands with a huge tank buff for a minute. I had already planned on taking those other talents as they are just good for like 3 total talent points vs buffing holy light or some garbage.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    For example, the datamined Improved Lay On Hands. Reduces the cooldown by 10%.

    I'm sorry, but I'm never going to notice not being able to use Lay On Hands between minute 9 and 10. This is a talent that's going to be important for minmaxing raiders exclusively, the average player is just not going to be realistically affected by it either way.

    I feel like talents should be impactful, and important. A choice node that decreases Lay On Hands *or* Divine Shield's cooldown by 50%.

    Hell, every node should be a choice node. Like PVP talents, many choices but few slots. But some that are more powerful than others. ...............Oh. Glyphs.

    Hmm...
    You had more impactful talents, and the community REEEd and wanted the old shitty talent system back, so that's what is happening.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    But like.... *why*?

    Even if they have to have a separate tree for "War", "Raid", and "Adventure", like how pvp talents only work in pvp.

    So youd end up like a fucking Torghast beast in the open world.

    I see no downside.
    The downside is that you'll feel like absolute shit in dungeons and pvp if you're being downgraded that much in instances, and you realistically can't balance the game when everyone's abilities are absolutely ridiculous. Plus not everyone wants to instagib everything with a single button press, even in the open world.

  13. #13
    10% cooldown on your biggest heal is an impactful talent, you dingdong.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Caiphon View Post
    The downside is that you'll feel like absolute shit in dungeons and pvp if you're being downgraded that much in instances, and you realistically can't balance the game when everyone's abilities are absolutely ridiculous. Plus not everyone wants to instagib everything with a single button press, even in the open world.
    Option 1: Gimp out everybody's spells so that talents are extreme bonuses making them VIABLE and Balanced.

    Option 2: Add HP to everything.

    I see no downside

    Things like having the ability to reduce the cooldown and mana cost of Frostbolt by a significant, non-10% amount, before mythic gear with haste, would be fun.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    10% cooldown on your biggest heal is an impactful talent, you dingdong.
    In an endgame raid? Yah.

    Getting to that point? Nah.

    50% or bust.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Amnaught View Post
    In an endgame raid? Yah.

    Getting to that point? Nah.

    50% or bust.
    It's the exact same impact no matter where you are. Use your cooldowns, forget about being optimal or w/e, you use them to do crazy shit and get away with it in the world. Which is fun!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    10% cooldown on your biggest heal is an impactful talent, you dingdong.
    I don't know....

    In the world using it every 9 minutes is a moot point unless your getting yourself into a Lay on Hands level heal every 9 minutes...

    In a raid since it resets after a wipe it's only useful if the fight goes on for 20 minutes since it would give you one extra use assuming you use it almost immediately at the start and when it cools down

    Arena matches shouldnt last that long and you might be able to squeak another use in a battle ground...but otherwise kinda meh

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Thing is, if you dont want 10% shorter cooldown, then dont take it, spend your point in something else, build your own build the way you want instead of what people say are the "right" one, people are so blind with the "right" option, are you not a world first raider or pushing max mythic keys then you dont need the "right" build.

    The only meters that really matters is the health bars, do your enemy die before you die if yes, gz you won damage done.

    Can you stop health bars from reaching zero, gz you won healing done.
    True that most are not world first raider or max mythic keys but try to progress any meaning content ? ppl will flip at you because you are doing 3-5% less dps than the optimal build

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    I don't know....

    In the world using it every 9 minutes is a moot point unless your getting yourself into a Lay on Hands level heal every 9 minutes...

    In a raid since it resets after a wipe it's only useful if the fight goes on for 20 minutes since it would give you one extra use assuming you use it almost immediately at the start and when it cools down

    Arena matches shouldnt last that long and you might be able to squeak another use in a battle ground...but otherwise kinda meh
    Isn’t selfless healer a talent? I haven’t looked at the Paladin talents but that one cuts the cool-down by at least 40% if I remember correctly

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    I don't know....

    In the world using it every 9 minutes is a moot point unless your getting yourself into a Lay on Hands level heal every 9 minutes...
    but you can choose when to initiate big fights

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    You had more impactful talents, and the community REEEd and wanted the old shitty talent system back, so that's what is happening.
    I may have worded it slightly different but this...I guess it was too boring to only pick a meaningful talent every 15 levels so they nerfed themselves for the excitement of averaging 1 talent point per level

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