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  1. #21
    Light comes from darkness shise's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    Well you just confirmed my mindset - give the legendary mace to who deserves it, not the trial holy pala that just started raiding last week because the spreadsheet says he should have it.

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    Yeah, I think we are on the same page with this >

    I only point out, aside of this, that a spreadsheet can be very important to prevent other key, important items to fall on the "wrong" hands (from a raiding guild´s perspective). I would never detail it to the limit.. Maybe 15 items needs clarification, anything else is really pointless to go hard core in 2022

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    This isn't a solo game. It's a social game. How other people play and what becomes the accepted way to play absolutely affects everyone.

    Anyway, on topic if you have to ask this question it doesn't matter for you. If it actually made a difference for you you'd already know.
    It's also a solved game and no one goes into a game saying "ahh gee I can't wait to half ass this"

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Rori View Post
    Crazy how there is thousands of people on these forums and nobody asked
    I would argue that there are only like 50 people here and if not me someone would have said it
    I 3d print stuff

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Mysterymask View Post
    It's also a solved game and no one goes into a game saying "ahh gee I can't wait to half ass this"
    The majority of people 'half arse' games. The min-maxers are the minority, no matter how hard they shout.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire KoolKidKaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    A spreadsheet to minmax is pointless in that fight. Its about execution. I agree with the other guy. It toxic AF.
    0 Lights done perfectly is still a dps race, and healer check lol, minmaxing your raid, consumables, every possible buff, allows you to kill the boss quicker with less gear, i.e week 1, i.e before most of the realm, which equals more gear for your raid, which equals faster clears, smoother raids, alt runs, more fun. It's necessary if those are your guild's goals, nothing toxic about it, it's just the way some choose to play the game, just like some people want to be filthy rich and play the AH game, it's not toxic, it's how they choose to play.

  6. #26
    This entire thread summarized:
    "I want to play this way, let's have a discussion about it"
    "FUck you, by playing that way, you "force" others to play your way!"
    "So, i shouldn't play how i want to play?"
    "Yes, play the way i want to play the game!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    The majority of people 'half arse' games. The min-maxers are the minority, no matter how hard they shout.
    Meanwhile in reality:
    Most represented Class in TBC was Warlock, followed by BM Hunter.
    Surely, the majority of the playerbase must agree that a one button rotation must be the peak WoW experience.

    Let's not pretend that people somehow completely disregard what min/maxers are doing, they're not going to squeeze out every 1%, but when it enters the two digit area, a lot more players tend to give a shit and will follow the Meta.
    And if Covenants in Shadowlands were any indication, then it even starts within the one digit area.

  7. #27
    OP you're probably gonna have to go look in the discords of very hardcore guilds.
    Raid encounters will always have lots of similar elements so long as there's an underlying guideline that DPS must always be pumping 100%.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by KoolKidKaos View Post
    0 Lights done perfectly is still a dps race, and healer check lol, minmaxing your raid, consumables, every possible buff, allows you to kill the boss quicker with less gear, i.e week 1, i.e before most of the realm, which equals more gear for your raid, which equals faster clears, smoother raids, alt runs, more fun. It's necessary if those are your guild's goals, nothing toxic about it, it's just the way some choose to play the game, just like some people want to be filthy rich and play the AH game, it's not toxic, it's how they choose to play.
    Killing everything instantly and having nothing to do but alt raids is more fun? You guys are strange. I like to have something to progress towards.

    This entire thread summarized:
    "I want to play this way, let's have a discussion about it"
    "FUck you, by playing that way, you "force" others to play your way!"
    "So, i shouldn't play how i want to play?"
    "Yes, play the way i want to play the game!"
    Players optimizing games into unfun ridiculousness is absolutely a thing that happens. Now loot priority in a master looter system isn't anything terrible but the world buff meta shit in classic was awful. And everyone felt obligated to do it due to not wanting to let their guild down because they were so broken. Which resulted in every boss dying in a minute or less which really isn't very fun except for people who literally don't care about WoW and only want to play Warcraftlogs.

    Killing Anub'Rekhan before locust swarm and Heigan before dance, such compelling fun content. Blizzard should've stepped in early.

    I'm not opposed in principle to optimizing, I've gotten cutting edge in 8 raid tiers but the difference is that content was super hard, not solved and designed for optimizing. Playing like that in an easy game like WoW classic just drains the fun from it.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2022-09-20 at 07:22 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Players optimizing games into unfun ridiculousness is absolutely a thing that happens.
    That doesn't change the simple fact that some people enjoy maxing their character to the absolute most and reap every possible advantage.
    Don't tell others how they should play the game, this goes both ways and was the actual point of this made up dialogue.

    OP asked a question, rather than turn away from the thread because its not relevant to their interest, people jumped on it and called it outright toxic.
    If OP plays in a guild where they want to min/max loot, that's their choice, not yours.

    The comparison with World buffs is also pretty faulty because distributing that loot correctly doesn't result in a up to 100% dps gain, completely disregarding that by the nature of the discussion it only affects guilds, not every player.
    Nevermind that Blizzard couldn't even step in like they did with World buffs, unless you want to argue that you want to have enforced Personal loot in Classic.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    That doesn't change the simple fact that some people enjoy maxing their character to the absolute most and reap every possible advantage.
    Don't tell others how they should play the game, this goes both ways and was the actual point of this made up dialogue.

    OP asked a question, rather than turn away from the thread because its not relevant to their interest, people jumped on it and called it outright toxic.
    If OP plays in a guild where they want to min/max loot, that's their choice, not yours.

    The comparison with World buffs is also pretty faulty because distributing that loot correctly doesn't result in a up to 100% dps gain, completely disregarding that by the nature of the discussion it only affects guilds, not every player.
    Nevermind that Blizzard couldn't even step in like they did with World buffs, unless you want to argue that you want to have enforced Personal loot in Classic.
    I just said I don't have any particular opposition to master loot priority. It's not like world buffs I'm just still bitter.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Min/maxing? More like… Cringe maxing.
    this is why I wish MMO-C had an upvote system

    On Topic,its the same as it was in TBC and Classic: Give everything to the GM, followed by the GM's Boyfriend/Girlfriend, followed by the Officers

    /s
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  12. #32
    What is funny is how toxic the people are who are complaining about toxicity.

    What is funny is how they don’t even see how nasty and toxic they are.

    The OP asked a simple question and people piled on him/her. YOU are the toxic ones.
    "Peace is a lie"

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Runicblood View Post
    sorry for coming with a totally unproductive response and completely ignoring your question, but i hate how classic is all about doing what the guides say and following the spreadsheets.

    Give the loot to your best players, hell, leave need/greed system in place. Have some fun with your guild, following a spreadsheet is toxic af imo and the 2% margin of dps is negligible, especially if the class lower down on the sheet is a more skilled player than the flavour of the month picker.

    I assume you are also filling your raid team with the "meta roster" with an obligatory pre-raid bis gear set and leaving 0 room for flexibility. for content that is honestly easy af and can be cleared regardless of raid comp.
    imagine thinking that taking the game seriously and trying to math the best outcome for guild performance as ''toxic''...heck i guess going to the gym is toxic,because why try hard to improve stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Min/maxing? More like… Cringe maxing.
    GOT EM! zoinks!

  14. #34
    What OP is trying to run is an extra hardcore Loot Council. Worth it for legendaries and trinkets, not worth for the rest IMO.

    But yeah, LC is already sort of controversial, I don't think this is the right place to ask unless you want a full blown casual vs hardcore debate.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    imagine thinking that taking the game seriously and trying to math the best outcome for guild performance as ''toxic''...heck i guess going to the gym is toxic,because why try hard to improve stuff

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    GOT EM! zoinks!
    Going to the gym has good health benefits and improves your life in many ways.

    Dunno about the benefits of pretending you're a world first guild in an easy, solved 14 year old game.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Going to the gym has good health benefits and improves your life in many ways.

    Dunno about the benefits of pretending you're a world first guild in an easy, solved 14 year old game.
    GOT EM! zoinks!

    (<lol we joined mmo champ in the same month, that's pretty cool really >)
    I 3d print stuff

  17. #37
    For what it's worth, I would suggest you learn basic stat prios for all specs.
    Back in Wotlk one of our Fury warriors lost an Armor pen mace to a Ret paladin in ICC.
    Seeing healers with a +hit staff, assassination rogues with Grill Toll etc.

    You don't need to memorize every item, but maybe on Atlas loot be like "Yo Grim Toll is armor pen, I'll bet Warriors Hunters and Combat rogues want that. Wait you're a Survival Hunter? Gtfo you should already know it's bad for you and pass on it, quit being a greedy cunt".

    Raid with players who already know their BiS and it will save you a ton of headache. Weed out the Gearscore heroes.
    Quote Originally Posted by verylargeprime View Post
    Blizzard needs to purge the furries from their art and design teams. Dracthyr design has furry hack artist stench all over it.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    This is your fault.

  18. #38
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    But its an ilvl upgraaaaaaaaaaaaaaade
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by lnds1337 View Post
    Well that is the majority of people. But for the small amout of players, for the min maxers this is what you want. Regardless of how hard the current content is. If you don't want to min max, you shouldn't join that kind of guild. And yes, naxx is definitely easy, but we are already looking into Ulduar and bosses such as yogg +0 25m aint easy.
    there are quite a FEW bis lists, for Classes already up.

    the way you should work your prio is:

    1. is it BIS for a Class, and will get used x amount of phases, or 1 phase
    2. work out a prio on that bis
    3. all other items, base on Biggest upgrade for raid member
    4. MS>OS
    Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

    If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

  20. #40
    You might need to look somewhere else OP if the mods don't do anything about the triggered man/women children just for looking for some guidance. Best of luck!

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