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  1. #41
    Crazy, I was there at launch, played the whole xpac and was there when they moved to MoP. Cata was not considered a great xpac by anyone I played with nor was the general consensus of the player base favorable over all at the time about the experience in the end. Not saying it was terrible but it was the least well received xpac at the time and post run its up there with WoD for most people. At least from what my memory and experience was.
    World has gone all pc and soft so every things roses now and doesn't say anything harshly anymore
    Cata was not well received nor when it ended was anyone sad about it.
    Still living in this bizarro world...

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    OP clearly didn't play Cataclysm. there was alot more to it then what you described lol.
    Vasj'Ir was a terrible zone, horrible dungeons, barely any content just to name a few.

    Also world revamp did more bad then good. They did improve the questing.
    Vasj is one of the best zones they have ever made. Try being wrong less often.

  3. #43
    Loved the start. The zones are still unmatched imho.
    Loved the 2 new races
    LOVED the hard dungeons.

    Then raiding started... dungeons got botched an i had nothing to do that was fun. Quit during firelands. Came back to Soul... hated that even more....

    Overall i think cata is honestly worse than even BFA for me because i actually had fun doing endgame in bfa. Cata.... i just played because i hoped i get the feeling from wotlk back

  4. #44
    Over 9000! Gimlix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Vasj is one of the best zones they have ever made. Try being wrong less often.
    Dude Vasj'ir back then was massively ignored by the majority of the playerbase. Stop trying to make sound it like your opinion is what the majority felt like.
    Blizzard even stated that Vasj'ir is not how underwater zones should had been handled. Hell look at BFA Nazjatar as evidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shekora View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sam the Wiser View Post
    Goddamn it, Gimlix, why do you keep making these threads?

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    it's not an opinion though, it's a fact, through poor design decisions the game lost subscribers, it lost money, it was disliked by the majority of the playerbase at the time and is still disliked to this day, those are objective facts
    Game lost subscribers faster during Classic/TBC/LK. Those eras just had even more subs coming in for a next positive growth. This is such a common yet ignorant refrain it's obvious why Blizz stopped sharing sub counts.

    Which is a more 'popular' game: one that has 100 people try it and 10 people continue playing or a game where 50 try it and 45 keep playing? The first situation is akin to Classic WoW era while the second is more along the lines of modern design. Player retention is up expansion over expansion. The answer isn't clear, especially in a subscription based game.

    Cataclysm definitely earned money. Blizzard's financial reports from 2010 to 2013 confirm that.

    Disliked by the majority of the playerbase? Which poll are you referring to? IGDB gives it a 77, ign/pcgamer/meta all 90+. Seems pretty popular to me.
    “You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me.”
    – C.S. Lewis

  6. #46
    One of the largest complaints about Cata wasn't the quality of the content, but the lack of it.

    That was because, for a lot of people, the 1-60 revamp didn't matter to them. They weren't playing alts and instead only had 3 leveling zones and 5 levels to go through (despite those 5 levels being stretched out).

    That's not a fair shake, but a lot of dev time did go into something that only new players would really experience (unless you were leveling an alt).

    People also disliked the combat mechanics in Vash'jyr, but it depended on certain classes. As a shaman, placing a totem that immediately got set on the ground plane, no matter where you were swimming, was a huge pain in the ass. It was also the first time we had to deal with enemies on the Z and Y axis at the same time, which messed with a lot of people's depth perception and pulling extra mobs.

    Firelands is the standout. A truly good and hard raid, with heroic ragnaros being one of the best encounters they've ever made.

    But the rest of it was...meh

    They destroyed the old world in a way that they had to rely on private servers to get that content back --- and we've seen that now, when they do that, they make certain to keep the old world zone as an option for players.

    Cata was too many things done too quickly

    Talents ripped away, Old World destroyed, New Zone with weird Z-axis and class technical issues (Totem example) on top of Deathwing feeling like a nobody when compared to coming off the Arthas high. A lot of interaction with him is missed if you skipped 1-60, which most did.

    In hindsight, we are able to see that Cata had some good things about it.

    But it's honestly still one of the worst expansions this game has ever had, along with WoD (lack of patch content screwed over what was otherwise the strongest BOX game ever) and SL.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  7. #47
    Played Cata from the second it launched, took a week off to play.

    It sucked.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    it's not an opinion though, it's a fact, through poor design decisions the game lost subscribers, it lost money, it was disliked by the majority of the playerbase at the time and is still disliked to this day, those are objective facts, which when you add up all the issues the expansion had, made it a commercial failure relative to what came before, and objectively a bad expansion, how is that so hard for you to grasp?, you or me liking it is irrelevant to the conversation here.
    Repeating your opinion and insisting it's a fact doesn't actually make it a fact my guy.

  9. #49
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    There's no objective truth to be had in long posts that are little more than opinion. If you disliked Cataclysm it was a bad expansion for you. If you did like it, it was a good-great expansion.

    People telling you that your personal opinion of something is wrong should be ignored.

    One obvious fact that made Cataclysm less of a thing for me was the guild perks which over the course of the expansion tended to change guilds as we knew them in Wrath. They've never really recovered from that and that's been a loss for the game.
    Two rules for living: "Don't go around hurting each other. Try to understand things." — William Least Heat-Moon (Blue Highways)

  10. #50
    Banned rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by God Save The King View Post
    Game lost subscribers faster during Classic/TBC/LK. Those eras just had even more subs coming in for a next positive growth. This is such a common yet ignorant refrain it's obvious why Blizz stopped sharing sub counts.

    Which is a more 'popular' game: one that has 100 people try it and 10 people continue playing or a game where 50 try it and 45 keep playing? The first situation is akin to Classic WoW era while the second is more along the lines of modern design. Player retention is up expansion over expansion. The answer isn't clear, especially in a subscription based game.

    Cataclysm definitely earned money. Blizzard's financial reports from 2010 to 2013 confirm that.

    Disliked by the majority of the playerbase? Which poll are you referring to? IGDB gives it a 77, ign/pcgamer/meta all 90+. Seems pretty popular to me.
    you just proved my point with your first topic, the game saw exponential growth during classic, it saw slower paced growth in TBC, and saw little actual growth during WOTLK but it did see huge volumes of people play the game enough to replace those that left, this is true, this didn't happen at all after that time, meaning that the game had changed for the worse and was no longer approachable to new players, and was no longer good enough to keep retention high, so it failed on both counts, and yet you're trying to posit that i'm reading numbers wrongly?

    your second comment is laughable, why?, because that's not how 'popularity' works, which has been a point of contention in recent times with people looking at the massive hype that surrounded new world and the 'cataclysmic' drop off of player numbers because of how bad the game turned out to be, the same principle exists with WoW, people were happy enough with the content through the initial launch until cataclysm expansion release, new players were plentiful enough to replace those that dropped the game meaning that player turnover was positive, after the cataclysm expansion period the game consistently dropped players because of bad design decisions and even more egregious issues as time went on, to the point now where using best available data that exists the estimated player count globally is sub 1 million players on the current iteration of the game, with yet more and more bad design decisions being made and desperate attempts to recapture the lightning by pandering to people's requests months/years after they were initially made.

    i never said cataclysm didn't make money, i said it was a commercial failure relative to what came before, blizzard went from making more than $3 BILLION a year during WOTLK to around half that during the cataclysm period, when the entire point of your company is to make money, making less of it after showing you can make a lot more is a bad thing, not sure why this is news to you.

    i wasn't aware that rag sites were considered 'majority' of the player population, i must have missed that important memo, as someone who played the entire expansion cycle not missing a single daily quest during the entire expansion life cycle, and who was very invested in keeping up to date with the miniscule changes that happened, it was abundantly clear that the majority of players were unhappy with the expansion, mainly due to the fact that the devs changed so much of the content during the expansion life cycle, cutting huge amounts of content out in order to work on the changes and updates needed to keep the majority of players engaged and interested in the game at that time, giving an access media representative a beta key and asking them to do a review of the game based on a tiny sample of the entire whole does not a good game review make, but you seem to be someone who doesn't look to in depth on things much to notice.

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! SinR's Avatar
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    Oh God guild perks. The start of the Guild Invite addons that I hate to this day and got into an argument with my GM over.
    We're all newbs, some are just more newbier than others.

    Just a burned out hardcore raider turned casual.
    I'm tired. So very tired. Can I just lay my head on your lap and fall asleep?
    #TeamFuckEverything

  12. #52
    Banned rogoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    There's no objective truth to be had in long posts that are little more than opinion. If you disliked Cataclysm it was a bad expansion for you. If you did like it, it was a good-great expansion.

    People telling you that your personal opinion of something is wrong should be ignored.

    One obvious fact that made Cataclysm less of a thing for me was the guild perks which over the course of the expansion tended to change guilds as we knew them in Wrath. They've never really recovered from that and that's been a loss for the game.
    i have said multiple times now, i like the expansion, i had a lot of fun during the expansion, and i still recognise it as a bad expansion from an objective standpoint, the content that was provided was good, there wasn't enough of it, the game systems themselves were poorly implemented and caused huge player burnout, yet despite this i had fun and still call it a bad expansion, because of the factors that make it, you know, a bad expansion.

    there's a lot of subjective points you could make right down to tiny inconsequential nit picks or pet peeves, but overall at the whole package it wasn't great for the vast majority of the playerbase who voted on said product with their wallets and didn't bother sticking around or didn't bother investing in the first place.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SinR View Post
    Oh God guild perks. The start of the Guild Invite addons that I hate to this day and got into an argument with my GM over.
    the old guild perks turned guilds from social spaces for multiple people to gather and share similar experiences to cess pits of slaves who's only purpose was to generate gold for the guild bank.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by rogoth View Post
    you just proved my point with your first topic, the game saw exponential growth during classic, it saw slower paced growth in TBC, and saw little actual growth during WOTLK but it did see huge volumes of people play the game enough to replace those that left, this is true, this didn't happen at all after that time, meaning that the game had changed for the worse and was no longer approachable to new players, and was no longer good enough to keep retention high, so it failed on both counts, and yet you're trying to posit that i'm reading numbers wrongly?

    your second comment is laughable, why?, because that's not how 'popularity' works, which has been a point of contention in recent times with people looking at the massive hype that surrounded new world and the 'cataclysmic' drop off of player numbers because of how bad the game turned out to be, the same principle exists with WoW, people were happy enough with the content through the initial launch until cataclysm expansion release, new players were plentiful enough to replace those that dropped the game meaning that player turnover was positive, after the cataclysm expansion period the game consistently dropped players because of bad design decisions and even more egregious issues as time went on, to the point now where using best available data that exists the estimated player count globally is sub 1 million players on the current iteration of the game, with yet more and more bad design decisions being made and desperate attempts to recapture the lightning by pandering to people's requests months/years after they were initially made.

    i never said cataclysm didn't make money, i said it was a commercial failure relative to what came before, blizzard went from making more than $3 BILLION a year during WOTLK to around half that during the cataclysm period, when the entire point of your company is to make money, making less of it after showing you can make a lot more is a bad thing, not sure why this is news to you.

    i wasn't aware that rag sites were considered 'majority' of the player population, i must have missed that important memo, as someone who played the entire expansion cycle not missing a single daily quest during the entire expansion life cycle, and who was very invested in keeping up to date with the miniscule changes that happened, it was abundantly clear that the majority of players were unhappy with the expansion, mainly due to the fact that the devs changed so much of the content during the expansion life cycle, cutting huge amounts of content out in order to work on the changes and updates needed to keep the majority of players engaged and interested in the game at that time, giving an access media representative a beta key and asking them to do a review of the game based on a tiny sample of the entire whole does not a good game review make, but you seem to be someone who doesn't look to in depth on things much to notice.
    WotLK was the expansion that WoW reached market saturation. Using it as the watermark for "relative success" is dumb as fuck because nothing in the MMO space will ever be that popular again. The retention rates in Cata could have actually been better than they were in WotLK but you'd never know that because all you're doing is looking at a subscriber graph which doesn't show you how many new players are created nor does it show how many players unsubscribed and saying "number go down = bad." You're drawing impossible conclusions from incomplete data then lording it over everybody in this thread as "objective facts." This is the same degenerative brain rot that Bellular suffers from which led him to use Blizzard's APIs to show that Shadowlands was "objectively dead."

    Please stop stating opinions as facts.

  14. #54
    Transmog and Firelands were the only good things to come out of that expansion. Revamped questing zones is hit and miss depending on the zone, although I overall think it was an improvement.

    That's all. Raids were mediocre, lore was bad, heroic dungeons were abysmal to complete unless you were running them with your guild.

    Vash'jir was okay but could have been far better.

  15. #55
    It wasn't.

    The only saving grace for me was them re-doing Azeroth. In terms of 80-85 it wasn't completely enjoyable, and then end game and the raids/lore were middle of the road. It's definetly between the worse and mid-tier expansions for me.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    you have to be trolling...just omnitron alone shits all over 98% of wraths difficulty,i mean seriously dude?trolling is banable,staph


    also yeah,cata had issues,some very big issues,but i think after they got solved it was fairly ok
    I didn't say it wasn't more "difficult" than wrath. I just said it's difficulty is way overblown. The hardest part about cata is it came after wrath which was puggable through out and friendly to more casual players. Cata is CC heavy and once you get into the CC mindset of controlling mobs both before and during pulls, there is nothing extrodinarily difficult about the game. It rewards preparation. Cata dungeons are still some of my favorite in the game because of their design and mob locations.

    Honestly, if you've played the average genesis game, you've played a game harder than WoW has ever been. Get through the 1st stage of Altered Beast? Congrats, if you can find 20+ other similar and dedicated people, you can be a world first raider.
    WoWs difficulty has always been tied to getting through encounters without one of the 5 to 40 of the other people in the encounter making a mistake.
    Last edited by StillMcfuu; 2022-09-20 at 07:26 PM.

  17. #57
    Mechagnome Ihazpaws's Avatar
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    I do disagree with many things you wrote but overall cata was ok expansion and I gladly play it again. Specially if they don't ad LFR/LFD and keep things server wide. Talents got worse, you might remember wrong but basically you had no other chose than choose those cookie cutter builds or slight variations. Wotlk trees were the best because of how many different and interesting builds (that were viable even) you could make. Those % stat increases allowed you to experiment with many fun stuff.

    Anyway best part of Cata is that after it comes MoP which was actually amazing expansion pve and pvp wise. Theme might make those tight panties crying but I loved it. Nice change of scenery and it was first expansion that felt like upgrade graphics wise. Even tho talents became shit they still made every spec feel amazing and pvp felt best because in my case skillful playing paid well. Got 1850 rating 1v2 as a monk and "boosted" peoples ratings (free) with my rogue. Mop was amazing expansion. Cata meh.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Ihazpaws View Post
    Anyway best part of Cata is that after it comes MoP which was actually amazing expansion pve and pvp wise. Theme might make those tight panties crying but I loved it. Nice change of scenery and it was first expansion that felt like upgrade graphics wise. Even tho talents became shit they still made every spec feel amazing and pvp felt best because in my case skillful playing paid well. Got 1850 rating 1v2 as a monk and "boosted" peoples ratings (free) with my rogue. Mop was amazing expansion. Cata meh.
    Lol I remember rogues one to two shotting people with Fangs of the Father. I love playing my rogue but pvp was nowhere near balanced in Cata, if anything FotF made rogues even more OP than warrs w/shadowmourne.

    Playing flavor of the month is always fun though. Not gonna hate..

  19. #59
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    I think a lot of people misconstrue the entire expansion being bad with just the first couple of months of the expansion + all of Dragon Soul being bad.

  20. #60
    Titan Orby's Avatar
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    Cata is like the second worst expansion to me. Shadowlands being the worst. Cataclysm was the expansion that really started the downfall of my enjoyment of the game, I stopped playing hardcore an effect that would remain until my quitting in February 2021. Its when I noticed a lot of the RPG elements start disappearing from the game into the more current action oriented MMO we have now.
    Last edited by Orby; 2022-09-20 at 07:37 PM.
    "People fear, not death, but having life taken from them. Many waste the life given to them, occupying themselves with things that do not matter. When the end comes, they say they did not have time enough to spend with loved ones, to fulfill dreams, to go on adventures they only talked about... But why should you fear death if you are happy with the life you have led, if you can look back on everything and say, 'Yes, I am content. It is enough.'" - Wynne ( Dragon Age: Origins.)

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