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  1. #81
    There should be no more classic after WotLK.

    the point of classic was to experience the content of the game that couldn't be experienced anymore.


    Wrathgate is more than enough reason to have a classic WotLK, as its a legendary event and quest chain. To get there, we had to do TBC.

    Vanilla - TBC - WotLK also tell a final complete story, ending the WC3 chapter.


    Cataclysm was when WoW pretty much became WoW 2.0 --- it doesn't deserve the classic treatment, as the entirety of its game exists in retail.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    There should be no more classic after WotLK.

    the point of classic was to experience the content of the game that couldn't be experienced anymore.


    Wrathgate is more than enough reason to have a classic WotLK, as its a legendary event and quest chain. To get there, we had to do TBC.

    Vanilla - TBC - WotLK also tell a final complete story, ending the WC3 chapter.


    Cataclysm was when WoW pretty much became WoW 2.0 --- it doesn't deserve the classic treatment, as the entirety of its game exists in retail.
    Sadly cata will happen since we will never get a Real classic+ exp and we are already in modern wow TBC really showed the game is only about raiding and arena.

    Many people enjoyed the world content of vanilla with its really good dungeons and events and fun stuff to do in the open world, all of that is gone in tbc....

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Sadly cata will happen since we will never get a Real classic+ exp and we are already in modern wow TBC really showed the game is only about raiding and arena.

    Many people enjoyed the world content of vanilla with its really good dungeons and events and fun stuff to do in the open world, all of that is gone in tbc....
    You don't need a classic+


    How many new privates servers show up over and over with people flocking to play vanilla classic? Just reset and cycle the classic trio, and call it done. People will still play it constantly. Then do more season of mastery type tweaks as you go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Though LFR was always more of an imagined problem than a real one.
    Not too far off, but close. One side effect the DS LFR had is that it completely invalidated all previous raids, including heroic Firelands as it dropped the same ilvl.

  5. #85
    Personally I can say cata broke my addiction of the game, Firelands specifically made realize it had turned into a soulless grind fest and I became the mouse that was aware of the skinner box. So take that as you will I can't even look back at it nostalgically.

  6. #86
    People will have different opinions about whether cata was good or bad. It is clear that cata classic will happen. A lot less people will play than play classic wotlk.

    The major question for me is how can cata be easily improved to make it more attractive. I'd make these suggestions...

    i) make sure the bugged quests are fixed at the start. Some quests were way more difficult than usual - that could be looked at too.
    ii) make the levelling dungeons easier - they are for story not a challenge.
    iii) keep the heroic dungeons as they are - their purpose is to be a challenge - they are the equivalent of mythic+ that came later - have them drop better gear - so they are about gear drops and not farming valor (or whatever currency) for gear (though they should still reward valor)
    iv) make normal dungeons the place for farming valor and tune them at an accessible level
    v) add an easier mode (that isn't lfr) for raids that drops lower ilvl gear.

  7. #87
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    People talk about Vashj'ir with fondness and it's the most bewildering thing I've read in a while.


    I respect Blizzard for what they tried with the zone. It was certainly different than anything up to that point and how the tackled being able to move around underwater (eventually with underwater mounts) but, unfortunately, that zone absolutely fucking sucked.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Blizzard even stated that Vasj'ir is not how underwater zones should had been handled. Hell look at BFA Nazjatar as evidence.
    ?

    What evidence? Nazjatar was not underwater.

    You should really cut it out with the rapid fire, nonsensical posts.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    ?

    What evidence? Nazjatar was not underwater.

    You should really cut it out with the rapid fire, nonsensical posts.
    i asume they mean that they didnt make nazjatar underwater because of the poor reception of vashj,when nazjatar should have naturaly been underwater

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utrrabbit View Post
    Naj is NOT an underwater zone. It is a zone surrounded by water. They are not even remotely similar. If you try to say they are. You are wrong.
    thats not their point likely,naz naturaly should have been underwater,but the bad reception of vashj made them not do it that way

  9. #89
    Banned KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    i asume they mean that they didnt make nazjatar underwater because of the poor reception of vashj,when nazjatar should have naturaly been underwater
    Perhaps, and if so, horrible elaboration in his part and his "evidence" is still not evidence at all. He could have said Mechagon is "evidence" as that zone is surrounded by water also.


    Side not, I would fully expect the player base to have utterly rejected patch 8.2 if Nazjatar was fully underwater and the zone functioned the same way (mechanically) as Vashj'ir did.


    Perhaps in the future when they want to tackle an underwater zone again it'll be better.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    He could have said Mechagon is "evidence" as that zone is surrounded by water also.
    this wasnt all that funny but i somehow choked on my coffe giggling

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Alanar View Post
    Blizz called it a turning point the other day for some people, hence the survey.

    Opinion on cata is devided, personally I wouldnt want to go back to a gimped retail version, which has alnost all systems we have right now.

    I never cared for lfr and mastery isnt perse super interesting.. Honestly struggeling what the appeal would be..I mean why not just play retail? Like you said the people already destroyed the social aspect, which I highly agree with. So LFR is a non issur already.

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    I dissagree with Vashjir, this part got blown up a lot. Sure some didnt like it, but the zone was really well done.

    Getting dizzy with the camera has always been a player by player issue, I had no issues with it and actually really enjoyed the zone. Besides it was optional.

    Endgame was boring I agree.. another reason to think about an cata server imo.
    I think for the hatred of Vash'jr was that it was the first zone we're you're entirely underwater. Plus what you said with the dizziness of the camera and the seahorse "flight".

  12. #92
    Classic is for doing easy content with friends.

    That doesn’t translate well to Cata which required more than spamming 1 button to clear its raids.

    I think they will do it, but I don’t think it’ll be popular with the classic crowd.

    The crowd that will jump at it are the ones pining for 10 man mythic.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    OP clearly didn't play Cataclysm. there was alot more to it then what you described lol.
    Vasj'Ir was a terrible zone, horrible dungeons, barely any content just to name a few.

    Also world revamp did more bad then good. They did improve the questing.
    The frick are you talkin' about... it is an awesome zone filled with interesting quests and multiple zones while in today's game you have ONE ZONE with quests/achievements to it.

    Horrible dungeons... they were all throwbacks to older dungeons with interesting revamps and honestly when compared to today they are probably some of the more interesting dungeons that could easily with minor tweaks be reworked into M+ dungeons considering the amount of avoidable or do-able. You have the 3 story-arc'd dungeons that had some cool shit in them and were relatively hard compared to the normal set of dungeons. Also there were 13... Dungeons... THIRTEEN by the end of Cata which is probably the most amount of dungeons during any WoW expansion except for probably Vanilla.

    And there is this...

    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...-best-Dungeons

    I voted Cata just to see who had the most votes and sure enough... Cata.

    Barely any content... as someone who has a ton of alts leveling in Cata was f'ing amazing... because it didn't matter what zone you picked there were totally new quests to do and start over with. It effectively made "classic" a brand new world with the quests and the changes to said quests.

  14. #94
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Cata was bad (not all of it, just parts of it) because the Worgen got fucked over. The Goblins got a section in the main major city, their own city, a questing zone, and multiple towns and outposts over both continents. The Worgen got... a tiny section in a side city, no city of their own, no questing zone, a singular town on one continent, and a few outposts. Oh, and they also gave us the buck-ugly female Worgen chihuahuas instead of the FAR SUPERIOR alpha models.

    Oh, and they decided to make Uldum into a giant Indiana Jones parody instead of giving us something decent.

    Good things about Cata... Vash'jr, having new races at all, the Molten Front, and the new zones in general. They weren't amazing by modern standards but there were alright. I honestly remember quite liking the dungeons too.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    Imagine being this low to religiously defend the 2nd weakest expansion of all time.

    Yes I have played through all of Cata and yes I had my fun moments in it, but I am not looking forward to doing it again, considering that especially since Cata the game's been more or less the same anyways. They should invest more into Chromie Time and Timewalking on retail to bring back Cata than give us Classic or whatever and leave Classic to those people who are actually playing it and not the 10 people or so that thought Cata was so amazing that they should release it again.

    Cata is in my opinion in the league of WoD and SL pre 9.2. It's very exciting and fund the first month just because it's fresh and all that, but then it just abruptly becomes boring and everyone quits. What makes the other expansions better is that people stick longer as the content is enjoyable beyond that.

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    Yeah I hate when people keep saying that Cata was so good and only 4.3 was shit. It was a bad to average expansion all throughout and the vast majority of the drama and bleeding of subs happened BEFORE 4.3 even launched, but some people just like to pretend that wasn't the case, because X streamer says otherwise.

    And actually 4.3 as a single patch was actually quite decent and well received early on, considering this patch offered WAY MORE content than 4.1 and 4.2 combined, such as: Dragon Soul which was bigger than the tiny FL, 3 new great dungeons, the modern Darkmoon Faire, transmog(!!) etc etc. I very well remember people being happy about it and saying on this forum how glad they were that they have finally released a "normal" patch.
    Yeah, it's weird that people try to pass it off as limited criticism, then again i've heard similar stories about Pandaria which supposedly was good.

    But having played cata myself i still slightly cringe when people cite its early version dungeons as being "good" despite them being all the tedium and timeconsumption of a raid with none of the rewards.

    Honestlylike half of their shittily tuned ideas could work with less stingy rewards and less reliance on endless repetition against uninteresting unintelligent (namely inhuman) foes.
    This is a signature of an ailing giant, boundless in pride, wit and strength.
    Yet also as humble as health and humor permit.

    Furthermore, I consider that Carthage Slam must be destroyed.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by RobertMugabe View Post
    People hated it from day 1, because of the poor combat due to the 3d space and swimming. And the quest design was also terrible with little innovation and little use of its unique space. It is absolutely one of the best looking and most unique zones they ever made, but they went full on lazy with the actual content over there. Hyal is miles better, it's not even a comparison.
    I mean that dosent really make the zone bad, just makes the UI/Combat poor imo. I dont remember people hating it. I remember people preferring Hyjal due to speed (on alts) and saying Vashj'ir was confusing, but I definitely dont remember people hating it.

    Quests have always sucked in WoW too imo so, I never personally found Vashj'ir any better or worse.

    Hyjal comparatively imo is just boring asf, its personal preference.

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    [QUOTE=RobertMugabe;53914350]If there is anything that was actually AWFUL about Cata, it was in fact the questing.

    The questing has never before and after been this linear and mindless. Unfortunately this was also when they revamped the old world, so we are now stuck with this design where basically every old zone is fully linear, even in cases where it doesn't make sense.

    Also they went full on with easter eggs and pop culture references in cata. Several zones were thus completely ruined because of it and lost all of their magic. A good example is how Redridge Mountain is basically from the 2nd half onwards an entire reference to some movie.

    So yeah, questing has never been this bad as it was in Cata. MoP and WoD had improved on that a lot and made it less linear.

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    Regardless of whether you prefer questing, questing is lets be honest, not important in the grand scheme of things, the end game content is, and Cata was respectable until DS. Sure there was cut content like every other expansion they've done since, but the first 3 raids were good, dungeons were challenging and unique, firelands was fantastic, the mid xpac troll raids were fun and had a few mounts to grind and a timed challenge that rewarded a mount, it was just that dragonsoul was literally shit. Like honestly, it might be a pipe dream but if they do Cata id want them to literally just remake the entire raid. Keep madness as 2nd to last boss fight, strip him of power rather than kill him at the end of that fight, give him a new final fight, and make the entire raid take place on volcanic islands that have come up around the maelstrom, make it a raid in a raging storm on rocky islands that deathwing created or something in the cataclysm. Dragonsoul was literally just some random bosses with 0 lore thrown together into holes/ontop of the temple and handed to us, there you go, heres the expansion end. Fucking lame as hell. Everything else was fun before that imo.

  17. #97
    Here's a hot take; Cata has both good and bad elements and no one person can say whether it's good or bad as a whole because it's entirely subjective. Trying to convince people to see it the same way as you is a complete and utter waste of time.

  18. #98
    Cata wasn't terrible it was mediocre.

    Class revamp was boring and made every spec homogenized.

    Convenience was out of control no need to ever be in the world doing nothing ever again, mass summons, mass res, feast, caldron.

    Huge imbalance between 10 and 25 man

    First raid tier was ok, 2nd was lackluster due to cut content and 3rd was DS probably the most hated raid tier in WoW history.

    Nothing to do besides raiding.

    My grip with them releasing Cata is philosophical, people who made classic possible were those who missed the original vision of the game, a more sandbox game, with more RPG elements and world building. Wow deviated so much from that in every expansion, giving blizzard the green light to release Cata means we are going full circle and that defeats the purpose of classic wow turning it into a rush to retail. IMO there's only one path, Classic+ or nothing.

  19. #99
    Stood in the Fire
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    I've said a few times before when this has come up in game. Obviously just my opinion -

    'Cata wasn't a bad expansion, it just wasn't Wrath.'

    When you are coming from Wrath, which was notably a high point (if not THE high point) then really, the only way is down. Sure some things could have been better but overall, I don't feel it was as bad as many people say/think/remember. It's just it had a lot to live up to and it didn't (or, more realistically, couldn't).

    Just my 2c.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jumalharha View Post
    Nostalgia is a hell of a drug.
    let me finish this for you:

    --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2022-09-21 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Removed Meme Images

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