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  1. #21
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    I just don't like the idea of a supposed new endgame playstyle that is based on helping others progress and whose only reward is gold. Fully expect skilled AH goblins will easily make more than most dedicated crafters. And most importantly don't like the devs lying.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Quite a few things are not at all ready. E.g. the profession system is very much dependent on the crafting order auctions to work fully and that system is not yet implemented. The UI itself is not ready (or at least not hooked properly to the NPCs) and this is the kind of system that is guaranteed to not work well until a lot of testing goes through (even the much more minor Auction House changes took a fair while until they'd work properly). The beta is fairly unstable but that is probably just the Dragonriding bug. Beyond that I can tell you I've spend many hours testing the profession system and reporting bugs and there were many bugs (from an entire specialization being improperly hooked and inaccessible to a profession not even able to gain knowledge). And with Blizzard pretty much saying we are only getting normal ilvl gear from professions without doing dungeons/raids and with raids having higher ilvl loot, I really don't see the point on making the crazy time and gold investment professions require. So maybe they need to rethink a few aspects of profession progression.

    They can probably make it in time but expect some things to not work properly for release.

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    There are different levels of unfinished though. E.g. BfA was on a league of its own at being a mess. I think almost every spec is at least functional right now. In some I think their design is faulty but every expansion that had heavy class redesigns (MoP and Legion) also showed that the devs were committed to iterate heavily in patches
    I don't understand the complaints with the professions
    "We can't get higher gear so why bother"
    Because of the gold
    Mythic raiders will pay for a crafter to make their gear with perfect stats and over time use the items from the raid to upgrade them via recrafting.

    It's an investment to get to that point but that's how it goes. The system is designed around the people that use professions for profit not around Mythic Marvin who wants a way to use his alt for side gear. "My Mythic piece is the lowest quality oh noooo." OK boost your professions and get the knowledge points then recraft

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I just don't like the idea of a supposed new endgame playstyle that is based on helping others progress and whose only reward is gold. Fully expect skilled AH goblins will easily make more than most dedicated crafters. And most importantly don't like the devs lying.
    The devs didn't lie
    They never said you could get the highest ilvl gear in the game from crafting

    You have a way to get stronger gear via crafting than raids just look at the JC necklace lol

  3. #23
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    I don't understand the complaints with the professions
    "We can't get higher gear so why bother"
    Because of the gold
    Mythic raiders will pay for a crafter to make their gear with perfect stats and over time use the items from the raid to upgrade them via recrafting.

    It's an investment to get to that point but that's how it goes. The system is designed around the people that use professions for profit not around Mythic Marvin who wants a way to use his alt for side gear. "My Mythic piece is the lowest quality oh noooo." OK boost your professions and get the knowledge points then recraft
    I just don't consider gold gain a progression system (and maybe I am wrong given how prevalent boosting is) and I think advertising a system as an alternative to dungeons, raids and pvp when it is not is problematic. At all early interviews they kept talking about how MYTHIC gear would not be available without doing Mythic content which implies that Heroic gear will be. They did not let people test the system until now, for a long while the only indication we had was datamining showing that you can convert Primal Chaos into Primal Infusion only for it to be changed this late.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    The devs didn't lie
    They never said you could get the highest ilvl gear in the game from crafting

    You have a way to get stronger gear via crafting than raids just look at the JC necklace lol
    What is this obsession with "the highest ilvl gear"??? Maybe 1-2 people in this entire forum seem to think people should be handed mythic level gear without doing the content. Every other person I've seen talking about access to more gear progression is talking about Heroic ilvl, not Mythic. Stop with the strawman.

    And people are ignoring the actual issue that I am raising related to the topic which is that crafting work orders, a complex system that requires UI and significant dev time is not even available yet. So again, stop fighting strawmen.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-27 at 07:53 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Gimlix View Post
    Hell no, too early. I assume it's december tbh.
    I'm still surprised that 2022 is their endgoal, while we all expected them to release it in 2023.
    No, it isn't. Only 1 pre-patch ptr has ever lasted longer than exactly 4 weeks, and that was wrath. DF pre-patch has been on ptr for weeks already, so pre-patch will go live early in october. 4th or 11th, is my guess and blizzard already said this will be a short pre-patch. so might even be 2 weeks long. That leaves DF for early november as the most likely candidate

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And people are ignoring the actual issue that I am raising related to the topic which is that crafting work orders, a complex system that requires UI and significant dev time is not even available yet. So again, stop fighting strawmen.
    What they've told us about it really doesn't sound all that complex to pull off. I think you're imagining it to be way more involved than it needs to be.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I just don't consider gold gain a progression system (and maybe I am wrong given how prevalent boosting is) and I think advertising a system as an alternative to dungeons, raids and pvp when it is not is problematic. At all early interviews they kept talking about how MYTHIC gear would not be available without doing Mythic content which implies that Heroic gear will be. They did not let people test the system until now, for a long while the only indication we had was datamining showing that you can convert Primal Chaos into Primal Infusion only for it to be changed this late.

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    What is this obsession with "the highest ilvl gear"??? Maybe 1-2 people in this entire forum seem to think people should be handed mythic level gear without doing the content. Every other person I've seen talking about access to more gear progression is talking about Heroic ilvl, not Mythic. Stop with the strawman.

    And people are ignoring the actual issue that I am raising related to the topic which is that crafting work orders, a complex system that requires UI and significant dev time is not even available yet. So again, stop fighting strawmen.
    There's a progression track with professions that you can do without stepping foot in raids or dungeons or pvp but here you say "it's not an alternative because you can get better gear"

    The JC necklace and other embellished items are stronger than some raid gear

    Stick to an issue because it's either not giving gear that's worth it or it's not an alternative
    In the case of 1: you are wrong because embellished items like the necklace
    In the case of 2: you are wrong because embellished items like the neck

    Don't try to say "you guys are the ones obsessed with best gear in the game" when it is literally just you because you can get Heroic ilvl stuff by crafting if you spent 5 seconds of looking at the system

  7. #27
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Don't try to say "you guys are the ones obsessed with best gear in the game" when it is literally just you because you can get Heroic ilvl stuff by crafting if you spent 5 seconds of looking at the system
    Genuinely curious, how? Primal Infusion is not available right now but my understanding is it comes from raids and dungeons only. You can gather the primal chaos for sure but there is no way to turn it into infusion.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-28 at 06:37 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Snowball's chance in hell it releases late November leak or not.

    I am playing beta, you have many abilities not even working properly or AT ALL currently. This is even besides the dragonriding DCs and what not.

    And they are only starting raid testing too. At very very best I can see this be ready late December.
    Funnily enough, everything by that leak has actually happened on the dates according to what it said so there’s a good probability of it happening - ofc things can change but it’ll be interesting to see. Most of what needs fixing is nothing really new and usually gets done within a few builds towards the end of testing.

  9. #29
    Only 3 real possibilities exists, imo:

    - 28/29th November (US/EU)
    - 5/6th December (US/EU)
    - 12/13th December (US/EU)

    Depends on how fast/hard they want/need to push (28/29th), or „polish till latest possible“ (12/13th). So i go with the 5/6th of December, as the middle of it.

    In short: DF will definetely be released between 28th November and 13th December, imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    Late November
    Yep, rather sure they „aim“ at 28/29th November, if nothing goes wrong. Sounds very Blizzard‘ish: Early enough to let the PR take effect, before xmas, marketing-wise. And late enough, for a 4week pre-patch and quick, last polishing/tuning. If nothing goes wrong, that’s my assumed date, otherwise first week of December.
    Last edited by Niwes; 2022-09-28 at 06:58 AM.

  10. #30
    The leak has the most plausible date, though I hope that its going to be delayed to next year

  11. #31
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    What they've told us about it really doesn't sound all that complex to pull off. I think you're imagining it to be way more involved than it needs to be.
    I mean you need something with the functionality of the auction house, that you can filter who can see your posted orders, that adapts the crafting UI interface so a buyer can post (and I assume reserve, which requires additional data tables) not just an order but also the reagents they will supply on their end. It does sound more complex than the actual AH since it includes all that functionality and more.
    I am not saying they cannot do it, I am just worried that they haven't even tried to test it yet and it is central to the profession gameplay (you get directed to that system multiple times by quests) and it's pretty much the reason they can allow crafting of such a wide variety of high ilvl items; if you cannot do it yourself you can still get someone else to craft it without removing the BoP element. And every time they worked on AH improvements they did struggle a bit more than average which suggests the system is hard to work with.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    Bruh, you have core abilities in Warlock tree literally not working at all, as in not implemented right now in Beta or bugged to hell. Even Evoker has some glaring bugs now (Catalyze/Burnout/Deep Breath and so on) and it came first. Your spells occasionally can do nothing at all, most notably Deep Breath suspending you in air for 5 seconds and doing nothing.

    You have dungeons that almost unplayable unless you know specifically how to avoid bugs like Nokhud Offensive. You can perma brick Academy dungeon during the game part by popping a wrong spell.

    Dragonfying into the ground at incorrect angle has chance to DC you right now.

    You can perma brick your UI by changing UI elements and what not.

    And you tell me they gonna ship this in 2 months from now flat? Even before hell knows what issues they will uncover during raid testing?

    kkbruh.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    I mean you need something with the functionality of the auction house, that you can filter who can see your posted orders, that adapts the crafting UI interface so a buyer can post (and I assume reserve, which requires additional data tables) not just an order but also the reagents they will supply on their end. It does sound more complex than the actual AH since it includes all that functionality and more.
    No, it really doesn't sound more complex. In fact, it sounds about the same. Those are just more entries in the same table, not more tables, and it's mostly how much of each reagent is being provided, so just a number each. This isn't hard to develop.

    You just named an interface they can use as a base yourself, as well. That might well remove some of the extra complexity for development.

  14. #34
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    No, it really doesn't sound more complex. In fact, it sounds about the same. Those are just more entries in the same table, not more tables, and it's mostly how much of each reagent is being provided, so just a number each. This isn't hard to develop.

    You just named an interface they can use as a base yourself, as well. That might well remove some of the extra complexity for development.
    Yeah, I do think they will rip off from the crafting interface, it would be weird not to since people will feel more familar with it. They still have to fit it to the Crafting Order UI ofc since they'd need additional elements. But you still have a more complex system simply by virtue of the fact that a listing no longer just holds one item but holds an item table.
    Last edited by Nymrohd; 2022-09-28 at 08:26 AM.

  15. #35
    As Q3 is closing on Friday I could imagine that they post the release date tomorrow.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Yeah, I do think they will rip off from the crafting interface, it would be weird not to since people will feel more familar with it. They still have to fit it to the Crafting Order UI ofc since they'd need additional elements. But you still have a more complex system simply by virtue of the fact that a listing no longer just holds one item but holds an item table.
    So does the auction house database. Seller, price, current highest bidder, buyout, item ID, applicable bonus IDs...

    Again, you're overestimating the complexity of the task. This is mostly rather simple stuff that could probably be banged together in half an hour by somebody familiar with the system. Of course, Blizzard is going to want something a tad more solid, but there's little reason for concern.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Genuinely curious, how? Primal Infusion is not available right now but my understanding is it comes from raids and dungeons only. You can gather the primal chaos for sure but there is no way to turn it into infusion.
    In an interview discussing the crafting system there was talk about a weekly that allows you to get an Infusion
    They said it wouldn't be mythic but it will be high enough that players will use it (or they flat out said heroic I can't remember)

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire Melorandor's Avatar
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    I am hoping for a mid-late December release.

  19. #39
    Scarab Lord Nymrohd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Man View Post
    In an interview discussing the crafting system there was talk about a weekly that allows you to get an Infusion
    They said it wouldn't be mythic but it will be high enough that players will use it (or they flat out said heroic I can't remember)
    If it's infusion then it is Heroic. Any idea what interview cause the last blog gave the opposite information. Not saying I don't believe you, just different information (and I cannot test shit in beta cause I got the max level bug).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    If it's infusion then it is Heroic. Any idea what interview cause the last blog gave the opposite information. Not saying I don't believe you, just different information (and I cannot test shit in beta cause I got the max level bug).
    I believe it's the mrgm interview or something
    I will have to look it up

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